LegaSea

Page  <1 8788899091 92>
 Rating: Topic Rating: 3 Votes, Average 4.67  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 10:16pm
the croc View Drop Down
Gold
Gold


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Location: Wellington
Status: Offline
Points: 647
Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

Originally posted by the croc the croc wrote:


No I think previous Ministers are responsible for setting catch limits too high.

Would the Ministers not rely on the recommendations of Fisheries NZ?  Let's face it the Ministers themselves generally have little expertise in the science related to their portfolios and as such are merely mouthpieces or puppets as the case may be for those pulling the strings.
If the Ministers, or Fisheries NZ for that matter are being persuaded by other sources when setting catch limits, as in influence from the commercial sector then we are truly stuffed.  




The way the Fisheries Act is set up it is the Minister who makes the decision. As long as the advice from Fisheries New Zealand is based on the best available science the Minister can basically do what they like ("wide discretion"). Nash has set his own catch limits in a few fisheries, CRA2 and East Coast Tarakihi being two decisions where he disagreed with Fisheries NZ proposals.

I'm interested to see where this Forest and Bird Tarakihi case ends up. I'm not a lawyer but based on previous case law (Kāhawai Legal Challenge) it seems unlikely they will get a win.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Fish Addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 11:58pm
Fish Addict View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 05 Jul 2009
Location: Perth WA
Status: Offline
Points: 1571
Thanks for your responses Croc.  You provide info and insights into fisheries management that many of us would be unaware of.  The wide discretionary powers of the Minister you describe I find quite mind boggling.  Why would they ignore the science ................ best I don't elaborate and let others make their own conclusions.     
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2020 at 12:27am
the croc View Drop Down
Gold
Gold


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Location: Wellington
Status: Offline
Points: 647
All good.

Science is one part of the decision making process but they also have to weigh social, economic, cultural and environmental considerations. For example Tarakihi could have been cut harder but it would have likely meant a whole bunch of businesses would have closed at the same time. The tradeoff has been a longer rebuild time but more businesses survive, higher employment in regions etc. Not everyone is going to have the same values so that's where the variation in decision making comes in.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 5:48pm
pjc View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 12466
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/claim-great-whites-finned-alive-in-nz-waters?fbclid=IwAR0Alr9buxogBJTC48VKZyV-dLy4u6eedHlBlYL1VUnvabcH-xximwC-Ihw

Over the last year, an average of three protected great white sharks per month were caught in Aotearoa waters – and these are just the ones that were reported. In a Newsroom exclusive, we share a video of a juvenile great white aboard a fishing boat, and a shocking claim of illegal finning.



This came through on Legasea facebook page today. If it is correct why has Fisheries not pursued the matter as catching Great White is illegal along with shark finning.yet no comment only Forest and Bird
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote marlinmarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 6:15pm
marlinmarty View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Location: West of Tiri
Status: Offline
Points: 1274
Paul
Not enough evidence to pursue it they where keen ...read the whole article again.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Catchelot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 6:18pm
Catchelot View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Location: Whanga-Vegas
Status: Offline
Points: 47799
Originally posted by marlinmarty marlinmarty wrote:

Paul
Not enough evidence to pursue it they where keen ...read the whole article again.

Yep the fella that enquired of MPI wouldn't dobb in his mate the ole comm fisher poacher who told him of his plundering.
"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 6:18pm
Tzer View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Location: Gisborne. NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 5218
More Legasea propaganda B/S by the looks of it without verifying the facts much like their last post about Sanfords trawler. Little wonder they have no credibility with me

Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/claim-great-whites-finned-alive-in-nz-waters?fbclid=IwAR0Alr9buxogBJTC48VKZyV-dLy4u6eedHlBlYL1VUnvabcH-xximwC-Ihw

Over the last year, an average of three protected great white sharks per month were caught in Aotearoa waters – and these are just the ones that were reported. In a Newsroom exclusive, we share a video of a juvenile great white aboard a fishing boat, and a shocking claim of illegal finning.



This came through on Legasea facebook page today. If it is correct why has Fisheries not pursued the matter as catching Great White is illegal along with shark finning.yet no comment only Forest and Bird
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 6:43pm
pjc View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 12466
Originally posted by marlinmarty marlinmarty wrote:

Paul
Not enough evidence to pursue it they where keen ...read the whole article again.
Have read it 2 3 times Marty. If legasea wants public support/public money be 100% on facts before publishing.
If I recall Simon Yates said 3,4 yrs ago we have over 80 thoudsand we can call on we needed for action.B/S again otherwise the petition would of reached numbers in first week not still lingering around 12k.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 7:08pm
pjc View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 12466
How come Sanfords/talleys etc do not post pictures of reccs doing damage,supplying black market etc??
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 8:59pm
smudge View Drop Down
Moderator - Ninja
Moderator - Ninja
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Te Toro
Status: Offline
Points: 28454
Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

How come Sanfords/talleys etc do not post pictures of reccs doing damage,supplying black market etc??

Unfortunately recs do all those things too Paul
Best gurnard fisherman in my street
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 9:00pm
smudge View Drop Down
Moderator - Ninja
Moderator - Ninja
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Te Toro
Status: Offline
Points: 28454
We just don't have a voice
Best gurnard fisherman in my street
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 10:17pm
Sanchez View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 01 May 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 435
Does anyone have a good argument against putting cameras on boats ? If so I'd like to hear it.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2020 at 9:31am
OuttaHere View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 05 Oct 2015
Location: NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 2702
Originally posted by Sanchez Sanchez wrote:

Does anyone have a good argument against putting cameras on boats ? If so I'd like to hear it.


Cost - but I believe at this point the Govt is basically saying they will pay for the cameras.

Privacy - you would probably be a bit sad about a government-mandated video camera being installed in your workplace. But at the same time, you might not work in an industry that has a pretty horrific track record of leveraging their relative invisibility to skirt regulations to make money.

I'm sure there's a few more.

Basically, the majority of comm fishermen, who are trying to do things properly etc, object to being "spied upon" because of a few bad apples.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2020 at 12:24am
the croc View Drop Down
Gold
Gold


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Location: Wellington
Status: Offline
Points: 647
Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/claim-great-whites-finned-alive-in-nz-waters?fbclid=IwAR0Alr9buxogBJTC48VKZyV-dLy4u6eedHlBlYL1VUnvabcH-xximwC-Ihw

Over the last year, an average of three protected great white sharks per month were caught in Aotearoa waters – and these are just the ones that were reported. In a Newsroom exclusive, we share a video of a juvenile great white aboard a fishing boat, and a shocking claim of illegal finning.



This came through on Legasea facebook page today. If it is correct why has Fisheries not pursued the matter as catching Great White is illegal along with shark finning.yet no comment only Forest and Bird


This sounds like the exact kind of tall story told by a half drunk fisherman down at the pub. 

The fact that this actually was a tall story told by a half drunk fisherman down at the pub should have been ringing alarm bells for any decent journalist. All the video shows is a white pointer on deck with some idiot slapping it. Nothing else. I'm not sure who the journalism student is but it seems to me like he got sucked in big time. 

We are led to believe that there is a sophisticated network of inshore fishers around the country connected to an international crime ring, who, on the very rare occasion they catch a white pointer, head into secluded coves in the middle of the night to offload a bag of fins to a boat that comes out to meet them. Sound like a Famous Five novel yet?

These fins are then frozen or dried at some central location and then somehow make it to Hong Kong or Vietnam. Do the smugglers hide the fins in their undies or is it more sophisticated? Hidden inside stuffed kiwis? 

In terms of money, the skipper has to pay hush money to the crew, pay his handler onshore, pay a smuggler to get it overseas and then the handler and seller at the other end. It doesn't sound like there would be a huge much money leftover to make any of that worthwhile. 

Colour me skeptical but I'm amazed that this story got published. 





Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2020 at 4:02am
pjc View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 12466
Exactly Croc no substantial evidence but some want to believe it's true.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2020 at 6:55am
Tzer View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Location: Gisborne. NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 5218
Originally posted by the croc the croc wrote:

Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/claim-great-whites-finned-alive-in-nz-waters?fbclid=IwAR0Alr9buxogBJTC48VKZyV-dLy4u6eedHlBlYL1VUnvabcH-xximwC-Ihw

Over the last year, an average of three protected great white sharks per month were caught in Aotearoa waters – and these are just the ones that were reported. In a Newsroom exclusive, we share a video of a juvenile great white aboard a fishing boat, and a shocking claim of illegal finning.



This came through on Legasea facebook page today. If it is correct why has Fisheries not pursued the matter as catching Great White is illegal along with shark finning.yet no comment only Forest and Bird


This sounds like the exact kind of tall story told by a half drunk fisherman down at the pub. 

The fact that this actually was a tall story told by a half drunk fisherman down at the pub should have been ringing alarm bells for any decent journalist. All the video shows is a white pointer on deck with some idiot slapping it. Nothing else. I'm not sure who the journalism student is but it seems to me like he got sucked in big time. 

We are led to believe that there is a sophisticated network of inshore fishers around the country connected to an international crime ring, who, on the very rare occasion they catch a white pointer, head into secluded coves in the middle of the night to offload a bag of fins to a boat that comes out to meet them. Sound like a Famous Five novel yet?

These fins are then frozen or dried at some central location and then somehow make it to Hong Kong or Vietnam. Do the smugglers hide the fins in their undies or is it more sophisticated? Hidden inside stuffed kiwis? 

In terms of money, the skipper has to pay hush money to the crew, pay his handler onshore, pay a smuggler to get it overseas and then the handler and seller at the other end. It doesn't sound like there would be a huge much money leftover to make any of that worthwhile. 

Colour me skeptical but I'm amazed that this story got published. 

 

More Legasea propaganda B/S without verifying the facts much like the post about the Sanford's trawler. Yet another grainy unclear photo/video, other than showing what does appear to be a GW nothing else is identifiable in the video so could have been taken anywhere in the world. Legasea yet again your credibility in in question.

The post isn't so much about cameras on fishing vessels as it is about the claim that this GW was finned but is being used to justify a stance that there should be cameras on boats.
The video isn't clear to make out other than that it looks to be a GW shark, nothing else is clear to make and identification of what is claimed in the video. As with most photos posted claiming infractions from the commercial sector they are always taken at great distance or are so grainy in nature that you cant make out what exactly is going on.
Surely if Legasea wants some credibility then checks facts first rather than relying on second hand information which to me this is and F & B of all groups to be replying on for accurate information.
Good example of this was the previous post about the claims of Sanfords trawler out of Whangarei when it clear wasn't engaging in the activity Legasea said it was and only for them to change their stance but still refused to take post down.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Sanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2020 at 10:45am
Sanchez View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 01 May 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 435
Tzer I'm not interested in this shark story at all. But are you against cameras on boats ? It seems like you are and i wonder why. You seem so obsessed about this perception of anti commercial sentiment. When i dont think most people think like that at all. Most people recognise that the opportunity is clearly there to bend the rules when out of sight, and most people recognise its human nature to do that eventually.  The % of reported bycatch goes up significantly when there is an observer aboard fishing boats tells you all you need to know about that. Got any thoughts about that ? I'd like to hear it. 

@ Rozboon - that's a pretty succinct answer. I agree, however I'd be less sure commercial fisherman's feelings would be ever be hurt if cameras were pointed at decks. None that i know anyway. No cameras are in the galley and none in the crapper, and none are recording sound. Just cameras pointed at nets on the deck,  what is hauled up and what is thrown over the side. Its not anti-commercial to say this.  There is a huge opportunity missed to understand the maths involved in quota management when you dont know for sure whats happening out there. more and more people want this to happen and it makes perfect sense to do it. 
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2020 at 1:19pm
Tzer View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Location: Gisborne. NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 5218
Sanchez. This post is all about the supposed claim that the GW was finned and in my view has nothing to do with cameras on boats but Legasea and F & B are trying to justify this post to have cameras on boats, they are 2 separate discussions. So tell me was this GW finned or not as video was taken on a phone and there is no evidence that this is even legit.
Yes there is and whether you like it or not that there is a perception, actually its not a perception its fact, of anti commercial sentiment from recreational, Legasea and just about every other so called advocacy group. How do you think the recreation sector would react if there was a anti recreational campaign from the commercial. While there are some bad apples with in the commercial sector but the recreational aren't squeaky clean either.
As for cameras on boats its doesn't bother me whether there or not.
My whole argument is if your going to post something up check facts first and I know this article has pissed the commercial off big time but so far no one from within their ranks has been able to identify which boat this was taken on why's that, because I think that if they did know that crew would be getting a visit from some irate guys.
At the end of the day I don't really care what you think of my comments if I believe misinformation or B/S I will speak up.


Originally posted by Sanchez Sanchez wrote:

Tzer I'm not interested in this shark story at all. But are you against cameras on boats ? It seems like you are and i wonder why. You seem so obsessed about this perception of anti commercial sentiment. When i dont think most people think like that at all. Most people recognise that the opportunity is clearly there to bend the rules when out of sight, and most people recognise its human nature to do that eventually.  The % of reported bycatch goes up significantly when there is an observer aboard fishing boats tells you all you need to know about that. Got any thoughts about that ? I'd like to hear it. 

@ Rozboon - that's a pretty succinct answer. I agree, however I'd be less sure commercial fisherman's feelings would be ever be hurt if cameras were pointed at decks. None that i know anyway. No cameras are in the galley and none in the crapper, and none are recording sound. Just cameras pointed at nets on the deck,  what is hauled up and what is thrown over the side. Its not anti-commercial to say this.  There is a huge opportunity missed to understand the maths involved in quota management when you dont know for sure whats happening out there. more and more people want this to happen and it makes perfect sense to do it. 
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2020 at 1:53pm
pjc View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 12466
I have raised this matter with Legasea directly and after a lengthy call we both have gone seperate ways on this. I believe there is no evidence of finning nor not being released. The Legasea contact believes it does happen. But it has not been fact checked.
Surely if this was factual MPI/Fisheries would have an obligation to track the reporter and apply pressure as to where video came from as 2 laws MIGHT of been broken,finning sharks and Not reporting capture of GW.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2020 at 5:34pm
Sanchez View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 01 May 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 435
Thanks for the reply Tzer and I've agreed with you on this and other posts that unless you can prove a contentious point you may as well not bother. Its all BS as you say. Agree on that 100%. Unfortunately this is hard to do when commercial fishing exists by nature largely out of sight or vast distances makes out of focus grainy pictures the norm. So by default any evidence will always be hard to come by. It doesn't mean that without solid proof bad things dont, or wont happen. Cameras on boats could help make a lot of these problems go away. You say you don't care either way but i think you should get behind it. Me and many others cant think of any reasons why not. 

Back to Top
Page  <1 8788899091 92>
Forum Jump
Forum Permissions View Drop Down


This page was generated in 0.191 seconds.

Fishing Reports Visit Reports

Bream Bay Fishing Report - September 24th, 2021

Action fast and furious – mostly! While I am confined to land at present, the... Read More >

Raglan Fishing Report - September 24th, 2021

Finally, some fishing! Lots of boats finally got out this past weekend after lockdown and... Read More >

Manukau Fishing Report - September 24th, 2021

The recent weather hasn’t left us with too much to be excited about. Being restricted... Read More >

Kontiki Fishing Report - September 24th, 2021

Still slowly moving into the new season kontiki fishing on the lower north lsland. I... Read More >

Fishing bite times Fishing bite times

Major Bites

Minor Bites

Major Bites

Minor Bites