Ledger Rigs.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 3:47pm
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I've spent a bit of time using a line rtester to check knot strength. Some of the precentages that are bandied around don't really hold up but I realise there are better knot tyers than me around. Having said that, some knots really are consistantly strong. The one I often use, the figure eight knot for loops is one of those.
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What drag settingsare you using on that 30lb braid Steps?

Well all my rods are 30lb braid J8.
 When over the eat coast would set all rods , except SB to 1kg direct stight off the end of the rod.. just quick easy way.
Generally a 42/45 cm snapp would pull line off.. a 1/8 turn on the 6000oc would hold
 A 50 cm generally would go to just over 1/4 turn..

 The light sb rods would pre set set to 1/2 kg straight off the end of the line....

One cant just state that a rod is set to a given drag... there are several factors
1/ How much line is on the spool..  effective size of the spool
2/ The angle the rod is to the water...the difference when the rod is top of the winding in to when straight down is huge...

Thanks. In other areas of the sport, the aim is often to use line as light as possible to get more bites. Doesn't seem to apply to bait fishing.

No.. normal bait fishing is not a lot different to other fishing.
 Then there is off the west coast
We only get out when winds , tides and swell are right, then throw in crossing bars are limited to where the tide is.
So cant get out anywhere as much or as long
 Then its the type of fishing...
When that bite comes on , its all on, one is pulling in 50/60 cm snaps often 2 at time..
Have 2 or 3 fishing, no time to mess around with nets  etc, fish at the side of the boat, look down check how the hook is set, wrap trace around the hand(outwards turn) pull the damn things into the boat.
Dump in a bucket drop the line again and often hit again before even get the 1st fish to the bin.
I dont even both taking anything to eat any more, and 1st chance for a drink is as start to head home, a bottle bundy diet ginger beer.

And since fishing in anything from 30 to 60m, 3 crew, you stay on the rods.. Often fish pick up the bait.. no bite, get hooked and calmly swim around all the other lines...
And big sharks are fun, got to get them up without them going crazy, sort of 'lead them up' otherwise they will go around the other lines real quick.

When I 1st started west coast few yrs back, it was a huge culture shock...no way if on another boat would you be allowed to thru a stray line or SB out.. last sb I threw out the back (last report) hooked a White

So yeah lot factors that make our west coast manukau and waikato bar fish very different.

And bar down tomorrow, be a granny day out, flat as..see what we get Wink Fish the feet and work our way out.


The one I often use, the figure eight knot for loops is one of those.
 Ledgers I use the dropper for hooks, nothing gets close to the % rating of the line than that.
 For each end to main line and sinker/ bottom lure I use 3 times thru surgeon with a finish knot .. has a french name to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Snappa Geoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 4:00pm
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Trust me Gamakatsu hooks are rubbish. Even 12/0 size. They break far to easily.  Lost two of my biggest Snaps ever to them breaking. Im talking in half. To prove my point! get two pairs of pliers one on the shank the other on bend apply pressure and see how easy they break.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 4:05pm
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Yeah snapper the size you catch would certainly put them to the test and they are the very ones you don't want to lose. I can honestly say though that I've never had a problem with Gamakatsu hooks breaking on a gurnard. Or any hook Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote waynorth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 4:24pm
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

does not involve a knot...
X2 Alan. I did a similar exercise years back trying to find a knot that would work OK in heavier leader - surprisingly a rather ugly 3 turn Uni was best of the bunch, but way behind crimps, which I now use for 80lb+. 

I wrote an article for a fishing mag about the tests I did comparing knots & crimps, using 100/200/400lb leader material. With a knotted loop (uni's & improved clinch) in one end and a crimped loop in the other, & using stainless/plastic thimbles & flemish eyes, the samples were pulled until something broke.

Sorry to head off into the bush with your thread Steps, but here's a short extract from the article:

- in every case, the nylon broke at the knot

- no crimps showed any sign of slipping or damaging the nylon

- the plastic thimbles were completely destroyed in every test

- the Flemish eyes became Flemish knots, and the nylon broke at the eye on one occasion

- one stainless thimble was badly distorted on the knotted end, but all others came through the test undamaged

- due to running out of the correct size crimps, a couple of times a short third length of nylon was inserted into the crimp to bulk it out, without having any apparent effect on the strength of the crimped join

treat fish like fish
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 5:15pm
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

What drag settingsare you using on that 30lb braid Steps?


Well all my rods are 30lb braid J8.
 When over the eat coast would set all rods , except SB to 1kg direct stight off the end of the rod.. just quick easy way.
Generally a 42/45 cm snapp would pull line off.. a 1/8 turn on the 6000oc would hold
 A 50 cm generally would go to just over 1/4 turn..

 The light sb rods would pre set set to 1/2 kg straight off the end of the line....

One cant just state that a rod is set to a given drag... there are several factors
1/ How much line is on the spool..  effective size of the spool
2/ The angle the rod is to the water...the difference when the rod is top of the winding in to when straight down is huge...

Thanks. In other areas of the sport, the aim is often to use line as
light as possible to get more bites. Doesn't seem to apply to bait
fishing.

No.. normal bait fishing is not a lot different to other fishing.
 Then there is off the west coast
We only get out when winds , tides and swell are right, then throw in crossing bars are limited to where the tide is.
So cant get out anywhere as much or as long
 Then its the type of fishing...
When that bite comes on , its all on, one is pulling in 50/60 cm snaps often 2 at time..
Have 2 or 3 fishing, no time to mess around with nets  etc, fish at the side of the boat, look down check how the hook is set, wrap trace around the hand(outwards turn) pull the damn things into the boat.
Dump in a bucket drop the line again and often hit again before even get the 1st fish to the bin.
I dont even both taking anything to eat any more, and 1st chance for a drink is as start to head home, a bottle bundy diet ginger beer.

And since fishing in anything from 30 to 60m, 3 crew, you stay on the rods.. Often fish pick up the bait.. no bite, get hooked and calmly swim around all the other lines...
And big sharks are fun, got to get them up without them going crazy, sort of 'lead them up' otherwise they will go around the other lines real quick.

When I 1st started west coast few yrs back, it was a huge culture shock...no way if on another boat would you be allowed to thru a stray line or SB out.. last sb I threw out the back (last report) hooked a White

So yeah lot factors that make our west coast manukau and waikato bar fish very different.

And bar down tomorrow, be a granny day out, flat as..see what we get Wink Fish the feet and work our way out.


The one I often use, the figure eight knot for loops is one of those.

 Ledgers I use the dropper for hooks, nothing gets close to the % rating of the line than that.
 For each end to main line and sinker/ bottom lure I use 3 times thru surgeon with a finish knot .. has a french name to it.

wow mate if the fishing is that good on the west coast where you fish10 to 16bl 2 at a time why would you even bother fishing the east coast. Even with the bar crossing and weather windows that would be my preference.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 5:49pm
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I like to use the inline uni knot to tie the leader onto the backbone of the dropper rig. I tie my hook onto a short length of 15kg mono with a uni knot, you can use a longline type knot where the leader raps around the hook shank but I’ve lost large fish where their teeth have chewed away on the hook shank and through the header.

I use 30kg for the backbone, I hold both the 15kg and 30kg together make them into a loop just like tiring a uni. 4 turns through the loop and pull the 2 ends tight.

There was a real good vid posted a few months ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 5:51pm
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To prove my point! get two pairs of pliers one on the shank the other on bend apply pressure and see how easy they break.

Thanks.. was wondering after I posted just how would one test the hook...I loaded up 50kg (as high as my digital scales go)straight off the hook.. and testing like that just looked wrong
 Always learning ..

 Disbelief ? KA ?
Well thats what it is like.. 2 of use filled a 95L bin to over following last trip and more still on the floor and in buckets... Smudge takes ouit 2 big bins so I hear.. and so so others..
Oh may add.. thanks to the greenie mui dolphin do gooder protesters.. its getting even better..

 And why not fish the east coast.. well I retired we cashed up and moved... 17mins to Tetoro, about 7 to hoods.. always good parking within 20/30m of the ramps and its a good hr or so to Mareatia ramp.. and no longer a member there, crowed as hell,l km or so walk to park, and same for KK bay.
You would have seen all the posts on FB etc about the  1 and 2 hr ques

Anyway this is my current ledger rig.. note the hooks on the sinker.. run out over elcheapo lures
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 5:52pm
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Watch out "snappergeoff" if "steps" makes it down your way. 2 at a time 50/60cm .He would give you a run for your money??second thoughts only goldfish compared to your standardsWink


"steps' we often read about your bin fulls,how about posting a photo or 2 love looking at big fish like "snappergeoffs"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 6:06pm
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"X2 Alan. I did a similar exercise years back trying to find a knot that would work OK in heavier leader - surprisingly a rather ugly 3 turn Uni was best of the bunch, but way behind crimps, which I now use for 80lb+. "

Yep - found exactly same. Use a special crimp - with real low crimp pressure. Hardly distorts the line. Don't need much on the tag end with a catspaw.
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 No Geof Your info is welcome, and useful, and yes very aware of most of your articles and stuff. I have not yet invested in crimpers. My fishing is more , fish for a feed sorta thing..
 I think it was you who wrote an article quite a while back.. it was about looking after all the little things, how baits put on , how hung , knots , bend in the rod etc etc.. put it all together and you catch fish..

 To prove my point! get two pairs of pliers one on the shank the other on bend apply pressure and see how easy they break.

Thanks.. was wondering after I posted just how would one test the hook...I loaded up 50kg (as high as my digital scales go)straight off the hook.. and testing like that just looked wrong
 Always learning ..

 Disbelief ? KA ?
Well thats what it is like.. The term "binned up" is just part std language in these areas... right Smudge?
  2 of us filled a 95L bin to over following last trip and more still on the floor and in buckets... Smudge takes out 2 big bins so I hear.. and so do others..more room in their boats.
Oh may add..  All thanks to the greenie mui dolphin do gooder protesters.. its gone from what I describe, to even getting even better..

 And why not fish the east coast.. well I retired we cashed up and moved... 17mins to Tetoro, about 7 to hoods.. always good parking within 20/30m of the ramps and its a good hr or so to Mareatia ramp.. and no longer a member there, crowed as hell,l km or so walk to park, and same for KK bay.
You would have seen all the posts on FB etc about the  1 and 2 hr ques..
Would you be fishing east coast in a hurry?
 I do miss the islands, reefs, diving, over nighters with the wife and coming home at night.

Anyway this is my current ledger rig.. note the hooks on the sinker.. run out of elcheapo lures. The old spools have rigs wound on and there is on on the black backing which goes into a zip lock. Needle is for threading tubes and pretty stuff on behind the hooks. Also gone to smaller octipus s now, seems they work better or better solid hooks ups.. still in 2 minds atm.



 Types knot think Alan posted
, page gone werid so not going back to find it.

 Anyway all my braid main lines end in a 30 turn bimmi twist the a 4 X catspaw to a swivel and clip.
Clip is big enough to put a 8 oz reef sinker...for stay line
Or a ledger or a SB clip or quick lure/trace change
 
The guest rods do have mono.. end in a 2 times thru the swivel eye then back with a uni. Grew up with the clinch, havnt found any significant difference between the improved clinch an uni .. another sorts Ford/ Chev / Dodge thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 6:16pm
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

To prove my point! get two pairs of pliers one on the shank the other on bend apply pressure and see how easy they break...
what’s the limit out your way? I take it it’s still 9 or has it been upped. East coast fishing is not what it used to be.
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10 x 27 cm Kandrew for snapper
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Originally posted by kitno kitno wrote:


Funny Guy......maybe stick to posting in Catch of The Day....

Nah, given up on that.

Thats a real shame.
You were doing a great job Kitno.
Plenty of skin and minimal fin. win/win.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2021 at 12:34am
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Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2021 at 6:33am
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you west coast boys holding out on us east coast guy, 2 x 16lb at a time on a dropper rig at a time regularly. That’s awesome I don’t think I’ve ever hooked 2 x 16lbers at once in the east coast or anywhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote John_Ra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2021 at 9:34am
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For Kitno:
Has been noticed mate, too bad... loved your pics...I put some up, but trolling thru pages & pages of bikini clad sheila's, in my folders, oops meant on the internet Embarrassed ooohhh the hassle Wink crossing the guidelines a tad on some.... ahh well...

Still stand by Gamakatsu Hooks. Proven themselves over & over,
Have 5 snaps over the 20lb mark & quite a few over 70cm to their credit... My biggest snap 28.6 was actually caught on a gammy red suicide 7/0 .....
started using Gamakatsu after I lost 2 biggg snaps, using the ole mustad hooks before "chemically sharp" came about & revolutionised the industry of hooks, had 1 comeback in only the eye was still on, other was broken half way down shaft. This was on 1 trip, was an absolute blinder of a day off the rocks was slaying them... 

but to each their own...


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My fishing line knot tying skills are crap.  I need to learn from you guys as I am doing a bit more rod fishing than I have in the past.  

I crimp the shooting line on my speargun and replace it at least at the start of each summer or when I notice nicks in the monofilament (I still have memories of shooting a rather large kingfish only to have it break the mono and swim off with my spear ... )
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Snappa Geoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2021 at 12:35pm
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Referring to my comment yesterday on Gammy hooks, I should of mentioned was a good ten years ago plus when basically all that were available were there, in my case Big Red hooks! It was that type I had bust on me two times. With the comments since I would say they have improved ten fold on quality!
Have a bit of a yarn on Leger Rigs and West Coast Fishing. A good mate of mine who has since passed away a few years back due to old age was off Mokau in Fourty meters ledger Fishing years ago. He described to me many a time how one trip he thought he had hooked a Fourty Pounder!! Took him over twenty minutes to play his fish in. Amazingly he had hooked two snaps well over 20lb each on the two hook rig! Have also discussed it with the guys that were with him on the day... Beer

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Have built a lot of ledger rigs for surf-casting and boat fishing and still do supply stores in AU ... Understand its not the same as what guys are talking about but some of the findings may help..

A- Gammys ,well thats a can of worms- I dont use them as they do snap and bend ( blue pak hooks) Green pack not as bad ( sure Mr Wong will chime in)

B- All back Bones for rigs (40-80lb)are cut 400mm longer than needed and pre stretched for 24 hours ( hang with 8-10 oz leads) as this stopped the knots from slipping and snapping- some line will stretch 100 mm over night .

C- Knots - well that depends on the user we all have different ideas on this- surfcasting we only pull approx 4-5 kg max (load)on a surfrod and can you cant sustain that either on the 14 foot rod - 2 kg more like it, I personally use 3 turn uni knot in heavy lines ( back bones )- leader knots - 3-4 turn Grinner knots works a treat.

back to rod building ..... rain stopped no fishing brown waterConfused
why conform to society when society wont conform---
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