Kina in your finger?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TIN RIB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2015 at 11:46am
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Got a Kina spike stuck in my finger very close to the knuckle , thought it was nothing and left it but ended up needing an op to remove it and plastic surgery as it formed a lump over the area.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2015 at 1:30pm
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Every summer get at least a couple kina spikes in the hands and fingers. Just take off the glove see where it is and if its still got some protruding from the skin pull it out with my teeth, have to be gentle though as they do break easy. If it's broken flush wait till we get out and use the old mans trick, open a kina get the eye and break it apart and they have some long thin parts ideal for the procedure.

Cant recall ever having had reactions to the spikes.
Why do today, what you can put off tomorrow?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2015 at 9:47am
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Anyone used the old school poultice?
Rem my mum doining so as a kid....and how over night a splinter would  be drawn out of a foot or knee.
Couple yrs back had a  deep infection on my leg appear.. decided to the the old school type soap/ sugar under the dressing.. 1st 24 hrs something was defnately happening.. next 24 hrs a splinter that must have been there for months or yrs was drawn up, and the whole think healed over in couple days nps
Mentioned to my son.. who spends a lot time in the bush, and over seas jungle in remote moutains islands places like PNG.  he carries a block of old school homemade soap ... throws a bit on the inside of a plaster or dressing...fixed.
He also uses kero in cuts etc.. post further back.

It is difficult to source old school hand made boiled processed soaps....not the commercial made melt and pour products supplied to most craft soap marketers.
 google hertiagesoaps nz
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ceramic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2015 at 11:36am
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I have had my fair share of kina spines.  Some get infected and some don't.  Sometimes I get swelling or itchyness and othertimes I don't.  
Like a lot of other divers I have thought about toxins, surface bacteria/ biofilms, allergins etc on the kina spines but what makes it really confusing is that only the occasional spine really flares up even when spiked in multiple places.  I suspect the response to kina spines is due to a number of factors rather than a single cause.

One other explanation nobody has discussed is that the kina spine could innoculate bacteria under the skin.  Considering an open cell suit is a breeding ground for bacteria (well mine is anyway) a spine could carry this bacteria with it.

Sometimes even after getting a spine out infections dont clear up until you finally get out a last tiny little speck of black stuff.  I have often wondered if that speck could be a bacteria laden fragment of neoprene carried by the spine.         
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote tom1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2015 at 3:18pm
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Originally posted by Mullins Mullins wrote:

Has anybody considered using a rock to smash kina, rather than their hands?
Amusingly, I tend to only get kina spine issues when I'm doing exactly that!!  Always get them in the fingertips of the hand that's holding the rock.  Never seem to raise much of an immune response to them though- not very sensitiveLOL.
14 snapper fillets, "enough for a feed" ?!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mullins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2015 at 6:38pm
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A big rock, Tom. A big rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote shiraz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2015 at 7:50pm
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Glenfiddich is marvelous stuff: 1 - anaesthetic
                                              2 - anti-septic
                                              3 - when you've had enough to achieve 1 ( above), heat the now empty bottle & apply mouth of bottle over affected area. Suction/ vacuum created will draw spine. Swab (2)
Repeat as neededWink
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Chaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2015 at 5:29pm
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I came back from a spearing trip with a pretty swollen area at the base of a finger, and VERY painful, and very quick onset. Went to an A&E, the doctor there was very worried, immediately dosed me up and referred me to Middlemore plastics. Supposedly there is a not uncommon occurrence of cray (mainly, i think due to technique) spines being just the right depth to pierce the layer around bones/ tendons, and the bacteria can multiply and infect so quickly that within hours you will be in agony and it could cause permanent damage.

It was X-rayed at Middlemore (2am at this stage), the plastic surgeon said that it wasn't what the A&E doctor thought it was, no infection, just muscular damage. He was surprised at how painful it was and how quickly it came up as that is indicative of what the A&E doctor thought it was, except he said that if it was that, it would have been so painful I would have probably punched anyone who touched it.

Turns out the A&E doctor knew just enough to overreact haha, better that than the other way I guess.

Sorry i can't remember the type of injury they thought it was.

Chaff
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Terrapin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2015 at 2:09pm
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It is worth checking out this paper in the New Zealand Medical Journal with info on symptoms, treatment etc

http://tearai.kete.net.nz/documents/0000/0000/0164/medical_journal_on_katipo.pdf

This looks useful also. Unfortunately the relevant pages aren't in Google Books

Mebs D 1995. Clinical toxicology of sea urchin and starfish injuries. In: Meier J, White J, editors. Handbook of clinical toxicology of animal venoms and poisons. p. 129–33. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Spearomedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2015 at 2:05pm
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Originally posted by ceramic ceramic wrote:

I have had my fair share of kina spines.  Some get infected and some don't.  Sometimes I get swelling or itchyness and othertimes I don't.  
Like a lot of other divers I have thought about toxins, surface bacteria/ biofilms, allergins etc on the kina spines but what makes it really confusing is that only the occasional spine really flares up even when spiked in multiple places.  I suspect the response to kina spines is due to a number of factors rather than a single cause.

One other explanation nobody has discussed is that the kina spine could innoculate bacteria under the skin.  Considering an open cell suit is a breeding ground for bacteria (well mine is anyway) a spine could carry this bacteria with it.

Sometimes even after getting a spine out infections dont clear up until you finally get out a last tiny little speck of black stuff.  I have often wondered if that speck could be a bacteria laden fragment of neoprene carried by the spine.         

Yes i agree, probably a combination of factors, traumatic, chemical irriation (toxin) and infection.
Next time i get an infected one I'll send it off to the lab and see if it grows skin bugs or marine bugs. When i was working in plastics at middlemore we saw a bit of vibrio in marine injuries and they were often nasty probably because our immune system isnt used to fighting it.

Might be a while though, because ive just bought a new pair of gloves from Sequel. Lots of kevlar, very nice fit, $60, highly recommend those guys.

cheers for all the comments
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2015 at 10:44pm
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Yeah agree with that, I have a spot of black in a finger on the inside which I suspect is a piece of neoprene under the skin that has moved around to end up there.
http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kirlu7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2015 at 3:21pm
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I also used a rock.. A BIG rock, but I hit a kina on a adjacent rock on the way down to hte burley..
Spike went into the outer joint of the thumb. This was sore for a few weeks but thought nothing was in there anymore.. Until my joint started going stiff and I couldn't even hold my beer. That was when I decided to go to the doctor. They did some ultrasound, which didn't show anything. Then some Xray, which didn't really show anything other than a small hole in the bone close to the joint.
MRI scan showed that where the kina had been the bone was deteriating, and some sort of tissue was building up inside the joint and around the hole, but no trace of a kina spike.
Had a surgeion to open it up and clean out the tissue etc, and he also found a VERY small peice of the kina which was sitting in the little hole in the bone(in the joint). Since then its all good...

Best of all, I can hold my beer againClap
 
Think i still have some of the photos from the different tests that is of interest.
 
cheers
rik
Don't hate me just because I have a different opinion than yours!!


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fizzlesticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2015 at 1:43pm
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Use a hammer, I haven't had a kina spine in my fingers 8 years. Previously I would get maybe 3 or 4 a year when using rocks plus it's a lot faster and you don't need to search for a suitable rock, no good in comps thoughWink
It doesn't have to be fun to be fun
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ceramic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2015 at 2:26pm
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Speromedic- You might not have to wait as long as you think. I have the same gloves. Kevlar is great for crays and longevity, but kina spines seem to go straight through (I just dug the proof out of my little finger).
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hipponui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2024 at 12:20pm
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Hi I got several kina spikes in my finger some 2 months ago and they have not come out yet. My finger has inflammation and I cant bend it fully. I've had an xray and MRI and there are sign of inflammation but no foreign bodies. I feel that because it has been in there so long that the spikes have broken into sand like sizing and hence the inflammation.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote krow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2024 at 9:00pm
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I had one in my finger, Took a while to go get it checked as assumed would work it's way out. instead it worked it's way right into the joint. Just visible with the right direction xray. Doc said they would need to take my finger off to get to it. No guarantee it wouldn't be permanently damaged in the process so more than 12 months later pain and inflammation got better, Took ages for my body to dissolve it. 30+ years later and knuckle is still fat and I can "lock" it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote muchalls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2024 at 4:36pm
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an old thread, but Dermnetnz.org implies they have toxins by suggesting initial treatment with hot water to denature the proteins…..
One of my patients got a stingray barb through his palm a few years ago, he tells me it was indeed ‘effin painful’

https://dermnetnz.org/topics/marine-wounds-and-stings

Sea urchins
  • Treatment is aimed at removing as many visible spines as possible.
  • Wash the wound site and immerse in hot water (42–45ºC) for 30–90 minutes or until pain resolves (typically not severely painful).
  • Vinegar or weak acids can be used to dissolve small spine fragments, mainly composed of calcium carbonate (some island cultures use lime juice).
  • Most spines come out by themselves within a few weeks.
  • X-ray or ultrasound can be used to identify retained spines.
  • Tetanus prophylaxis should be considered.

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