John Keys tax rate 2.8%

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2014 at 11:22pm
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And there is maybe the scariest part of NZ politics at the moment Stu. You have the scary looney left gaining traction and the center right moving further right the longer they are in power. When this all falls apart it is going to be very, very messy. What we need is a strong centre left party with non-looney leadership to pull National into line, and that is something that I wouldn't have thought to find myself saying a few years back. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2014 at 11:36pm
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Finding the non loons though is the hard part.
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Olfart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2014 at 11:43pm
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At least you have the choice and undoubtedly the ability to do just that, Capt A....
I am personally struggling to recall what if anything this National Government has done to ease the plight of those on low and fixed incomes - and there are a heap of folk in NZ who fall within that category, who have worked hard all their lives, paid taxes and saved what they could for their retirement.
NZ has an aging population and successive governments have done nothing to restore retirement incomes to what they were before they were savagely cut some years ago by guess who...The National Government, that's who.....   Try living on the basic pension without dipping into any savings and you get a whole new perspective on what it means to be living under the bread line....
Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat....



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2014 at 11:46pm
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That's exactly what Labour are finding I think Stu. It really is scary when you look at what could line up in NZ if National really screw up. Labour, Greens, IM, etc. Would make NZFirst look almost like the sane part, and that is really scary.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 2:07am
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come on Tagit, winstone at least can open a can of worms, he may not know how to shut it down...
Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishing Addiction Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 5:07am
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I think we have things pretty good in Nz. Sure national isn't perfect, but I don't think they have done anything to stuff up on. I could just imagine what a mess of labour, greens, Nz first , mana internet and everyone else trying to get into the same bed all demanding their own big spending policies . what a mess that would be!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (3) Likes(3)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 9:08am
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Ol fart, I too am now on a fixed income, I can't say as I like it either, but if any govt were to bump up pensions to a level where those receiving it were wealthier and so on, where would the money come from? We are already deeply in debt as a nation, everyone hated the asset sales but that money has offset some massive spending in healthcare and education without increasing our debt, but to increase pensions to the comfortable lifestyle option, where would that money come from?
For a start, I would say it would need to be asset tested, anyone with an income from investments over say the      median income would not get a pension, and all others would get a pension sufficient to raise them to that level....sound ok to you? Great, so why bother to save at all? And where do you set the median level....once you have increased the lowest earners up to what was the median, it is a constantly shifting bar.
But still, the cost would be enormous, and we do not have a productive population large enough to pay for it.
You would need to cut....what? Working for families to be axed? All this bs about the rich not paying enough, when those on lower incomes with families actually get back their tax contributions in credits from the working for families program, their net contribution to the tax pool is nil. But cuts to this would place poorer families in very hard times. Childhood poverty (another line of bs) would skyrocket, in order to increase pensions.
How about clamping down on stuff like the DPB? make the new rule from now on that one unsupported child to a single parent can get social welfare assistance, but no more for any subsequent kids. All those mothers with multiple kids to frequently multiple fathers would sure squeal then, and there would again be some real child poverty then. So that can't happen.
Cut spending on education? Increase the need for student loans so that instead of the govt paying 50% of the courses and supplying interest free loans, those students need then to pay their educations more fully, and with loans at commercial rates, so we can free up that massive slice of tax spending to increase pensions? I don't think so, the riots would cripple the country.
Ok, so education can't be cut....next guess is the spend on health care. Hah! That will really nail one group badly....pensioners! So that is a no go too.
So, no major cuts to any major taxpayer funded programs are really possible without massive social dislocation (and political suicide) ...so the only option is obviously to raise tax rates, obviously only for those richb astards,
Anyone earning over...ummmm, let's say 80k a year are obviously wealthy, so let's just nudge their income tax up a little, say to 40%. Sound fair? And if they are getting over 100k, then those rich swine can pay even more, let's make that 50%. In the interests of fairness of course.
Do that and just watch the economy collapse as anyone with any brains and income earning potential flee to somewhere where they can actually make and keep some money.
Everyone wants the gummint to pay more for their own version of the most needy. Pensioners. The poor. Young kids, school kids and students. Solo parents. Universal medical care. Free education. Environmental action such as banning dairy farming and stopping commercial fishing. No mining at all ever. No logging at all of native wood.
Just where the hell is any govt, national, labour, green, manamarxist, conservative, whoever, ever going to find enough money to please everybody? Ain't gunna happen.
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote onthedrop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 9:21am
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For mine the greens policies are pretty sensible ( Ive read them have you??) and there far from the looney left.
-Higher tax for those earning over 140,000 (If your part of that 3% WHAT do you really have to complain about)
-No more oil exploration
-Charging higher royalties on oil and gas(to align with other countries) so we don't look like a bunch of mugs
-Getting more VALUE out of our existing industries

There fiscal costing's actually have the greens paying off debt and breaking even faster than the nats even with all of their policies to reduce poverty and without the need to intensify the output of our primary industries.






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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Grunta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 9:26am
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Originally posted by Capt Asparagus Capt Asparagus wrote:

Ol fart, I too am now on a fixed income, I can't say as I like it either, but if any govt were to bump up ................................ Ain't gunna happen.
^^^ That's a great summary of the reality NZ and all developed counties are facing Superhero ..... Thumbs Up. The shift in the average age of our population is a major challenge.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Olfart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 10:01am
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I hear what you are saying Capt A.  Just peed off when I look at the fancy wage/salary increases which MPs get (each year it seems) which tend to run into the thousand of dollars backdated to some convenient time while we pensioners - if we are lucky - get a handout of a few cents per fortnight every couple of years or so.  There was a time when people entered Government because they wanted to make a difference for the country.  These days it seems it is something of a gravy train with lots of hangers-on, all with their noses in the trough.
You cannot tell me living costs are standing still 'cos you and I both know they are not and there are no such things as fixed costs any longer.  It seems every day something rises in price - rates, fuel, insurances and electricity are good examples of this (there are plenty more I could trot out) and then have a look at the price of red meat these days.  Times are tough, there is no getting away from that and for those on fixed incomes with no practical way of improving their lot it gets harder and harder to make ends meet. 
For those who don't understand what I am banging on about...try living on less than $16,000 per year while attempting to protect whatever investments and savings you have been able to achieve so there is a fall back position for when things get really tough.
I said before there is an aging population in New Zealand so that means there are more and more of us old farts living longer - and that also means a lot of old farts who tend to vote very strategically when it comes to the general elections.  I know which way my vote will be going this election - suffice to say it will not be in the direction of the blue mob whose member for my electorate has been invisible for the whole term of this government (apart of course for lots of adverse coverage in the media).
Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat....



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 10:09am
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What John Key pays in tax dosent worry me in the slightest. Just another distraction among many thrown into this election campaign . There are far bigger issues than that. Issues that could turn this country upside down. Yesterdays poll indicates that a labour ,green ,i.m party are a real possibility.

If that were to happen it wouldnt be a centre left govt. It would go far to the left of that. Labour as centre left would not have the strength to keep a balance. Greens would run rings around them very quickly.

Confidence in N.Z would fall. Dollar would plummet,rampant inflation would follow. Everything imported would sky rocket. Cant imagine our essential export industries coping well with fuel at  twice the price, and that would be just the begining
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pompey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 10:18am
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It seems that every part of our society has something to complain about. Pensioners don't get enough pension and can't keep up with increasing costs. Students are paying for their own education and entering the workforce with debt. First home buyers can't afford to enter the market in Auckland due to foreign buyers and property speculators. Beneficiaries are harrassed by the Govt and their children represent the 20% that survive in conditions similar to Bangladesh. Its a terrible situation for all these people and it must be some one's  fault that they find themselves in this mess. I think I know who the culprits are, it's anyone not mentioned above, lets take what they have or a least some of it and we will all feel better, at least for a while.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 11:21am
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And have to agree with what you say Pompey. Thats the other side of a very real coin. Our own kids forced out of the housing market by foreign buyers bringing in cash at interest rates lower than here. Out of control banks loaning large sums at historic low rates also pushes prices up.Our own kids taking their skills overseas to earn money to pay off their debt. N.Z is the loser there.The resultant divided families that result. We have a high proportion of families where one or all of the kids live overseas. Social fabric in this area changed for the foreseeable future. Huge overseas debt we have accrued.What will happen when credit dries up. When the next financial crises arises ,and many are saying it is not far off ,coming out of europe. Europe is one of chinas biggest markets. China is one of our biggest markets . Next is Australia who is also dependent on china.Dosent bear thinking about.
We dont have a perfect govt,far from it. But at least we have some degree of socialism and welfare.

Can see a capital gains tax hurting those least able to afford it. Rental property would cost more ,effecting the poor. House building would slow,possibily pushing prices up. Can see a lower dollar hurting everyone.

Some people are hurting alot right now in N.Z . Its easy to see. Saw a young woman in the super market the other night. Freezing cold night,hacking cough,holes in her thin jacket,wearing jandals with two little kids following her,and buying very little. Or yesterday a young woman at the egg stand said to her little daughter. Would love to buy you free range but its going to have to be budget. So not everyone is wealthy in N.Z . Far from it. But then what society does have equality.?We may have inequality that is on the increase,but havent seen extreme poverty as is seen in some countries. We do have a social welfare system to help those who genuinely cant foot it.
History shows that extreme left or extreme right societies (one and the same) have had much greater inequality than we can ever imagine. And in those societies inequality has come from the point of a gun.

So guess this election will be a time to consider with care who one votes for. At least thats what i will be doing.

Saw a picture of a 4wd track in Alaska. A sign said be careful which rut you take because you will be on it for the next 30 miles. Same could be said for the coming election. Be careful which rut you take as you will be on it for the next 3 years.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 11:33am
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You see, that is one of the claims that really bugs me that 20% of our kids are like those in say Bangladesh. That is total bollocks. All nz kids have access to education, social welfare assistance, medical help which is free when needed, what many kids do NOT have are parents who prioritorise their needs over things like smokes, sky tv, iPhones etc etc.
Bangladesh, kids die from starvation and disease on a regular basis. They do not here.
Go to the third world (like the solomons) and see what poverty really is, where the diet is a meal of rice and tinned tuna once a day and anything you can catch from the lagoon as dinner, where school is only available to you until you turn twelve at which point 50%of the kids who fail exams no longer get free tuition??? that is, free plus annual school fees that parent scramble to find ever year, oh, and schools are not as ours either. Try unpowered, windowless huts with a blackboard, no desks, no books, no paper, no teacher supplies and over forty kids per classroom....THAT is what they call school, sound like anything here in nz? No way..., and you will realise that a lot of the claims of "poverty" here in nz are bollocks.
Such claims should always be prefaced with the word "relative".... On that I would agree. Relative poverty here is a lifestyle so much better than that of third world children, who could only dream of being so "poor"!
I am not saying there is no need and want here in nz. But we do have systems in place that are supposed to take care of this stuff.... But a govt cannot compensate for the incompetence of some parents, and their own lifestyle choices.
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Stonefish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 11:49am
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Originally posted by Capt Asparagus Capt Asparagus wrote:

But a govt cannot compensate for the incompetence of some parents, and their own lifestyle choices.


Never a truer word spoken.

Children are still going to be born into poverty by parents that don't have the necessary skills or income to care for them. Is this not where child poverty really arises?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 11:53am
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The prospect of a third national term terrifies me. Their total arrogance is bad now, with a third term they would be even worse. A large portion of the national debt, which has ballooned under National, has paid for tax cuts for the well off. That's not fiscally responsible, much as I like a bit of extra money in my pocket it should never have been done when the country could not afford it. The lies, dodgy backroom deals, incompetence, I could never vote for them. BUT, who the hell do you vote for? onthedrop is right, green policy does actually make sense, if you read some of it but can they keep the loony left elements under control? The internet party is a bit of a joke (OK, a lot of a joke). Maybe Colin Craig is going to hit the 5% and be a new force in NZ politics, good fishing policy but not sure how important it is to them -probably not top of their list in coalition negotiations. Sure gonna be a tricky decision this year.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote rustler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 11:59am
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totally agree with Superhero, we do NOT have real poverty in NZ . Olfart if you think its tough on 16k a year now wait until labour and the greens get in, god forbid if they do! I know I couldn't live on 16K  I have spent the last 15years or so ensuring I don't have to, our education is free until university, whats wrong with students having to earn their way through to higher education most have part time jobs along with some help from parents or govt loans it shows they are serious. as you say the govt can't compensate for the incompetence of some parents and their lifestyle choices
'Politically Correct' a misguided bunch of morons who think they can pick up a piece of **** by the clean end.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote widerange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 12:21pm
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Yea ,you guys are all absolutely right.
We should just carry on with a government that treats us with contempt,telling us lies as a matter of course,ignores public opinion(referendum),oh ,except in polls leading up to the election,attacks the credibility of any who disagree with their agenda,who's only interest in the enviroment is how much they can sell it for,who are degrading social services day by day,dismantling institutional checks and balances that restrain them(such as the capt's "systems")....dirty politics,..bla bla
Yea there's no alternative,those greenies,all they wanna do is ruin our ag industry by making the poor farmers take responsibilty for the impact they have on the land and waterways,ruin the fishing industry by protecting habitat and addressing wastful practice.
Oh and of course our economy oh woe,imagine if big business had to pay tax and clean up after themselves.and the social cost of having functional social services
The red team,heaven forbid they want to keep nzér working by preccessing our primary produce here instead of china,loonies
And that winston,bloody trouble maker always stirring up trouble,calling people and organisations to account for their dishonesty and attempts at wroughting the system,just like that winebox fiasco why didn't he just leave all those people be.
Nope no choice is there
Bend over over and drop your pants every one.
who isn't in that 2% that is
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Raging Bull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 12:53pm
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Originally posted by rustler rustler wrote:

totally agree with Superhero, we do NOT have real poverty in NZ . Olfart if you think its tough on 16k a year now wait until labour and the greens get in, god forbid if they do! I know I couldn't live on 16K  I have spent the last 15years or so ensuring I don't have to, our education is free until university, whats wrong with students having to earn their way through to higher education most have part time jobs along with some help from parents or govt loans it shows they are serious. as you say the govt can't compensate for the incompetence of some parents and their lifestyle choices

You have you head in the clouds if you think we do not have "real poverty" in NZ.

Could you explain what real poverty is too you?





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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 12:59pm
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You know that you can always choose to increase the tax on those who 'can afford it'. You can also choose to increase taxes on businesses. Then those people and businesses can then choose to go and be based in another country where they don't spend 75% of their life working for someone elses benefit, and take the taxes they pay and jobs they create with them.

For all the worthy social concepts put forward by our political left, their are a bunch of real reasons why most of the concepts won't work, and a bunch of countries that have found that out the hard way. That is not to say that a 'lean to the left' might not be affordable for NZ, but MMP is potentially putting power in the hands of those camped on the far left and that is a history that is littered with disaster worldwide. The great thing about being a minority party with power under MMP however is that you can promise whatever you like to get votes and will always have an excuse when it falls apart.
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