FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Its not the size that counts, its how you use it..

Page  <12
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote rowboat bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 10:46pm
rowboat bob View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 414
Hi Clank , I brought up the bar crossing because if the rig can handle bar crossing it should be good enough for offshore. If you wouldn't cross a bar with it don't take it offshore. As far as the stats go , there are probably a lot more old and poorly maintained boats in the sub 6m than the over 6m category. A quality 5m boat with a late model engine is a capable offshore boat.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote clank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 11:27pm
clank View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 104
Hi rowboat bob,

I still have to disagree, I think the bar is about getting it right or getting it wrong. The most sea worthy boats could roll over if the skipper got it wrong. Similarly, a rubbish sea boat will be able to follow a swell in if the skipper gets it right and motor keeps running. I don't think a bar crossing is a measure of an off shore boat. The bar is dangerous for any boat.

Coming home from out wide and say two hours + in a small boat taking on water with every wave (wind wave, not swell you can follow) and then size matters. Coming back from out wide means a lot more time for something to go wrong and a 5mtr boat bobbing around will shrink fast when something does go wrong.

I've owned a 5 mtr boat in the past and I would want at least a three day window before I went out wide.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SufixRockMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 6:00am
SufixRockMan View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 02 May 2010
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 2775
I'm still interested in what constitutes out wide? Anchorite or Little Barrier from Sandspit?
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote rowboat bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 8:04am
rowboat bob View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 414
Hi Clank , I only said that a bar capable boat SHOULD be ok for offshore . Also as I said earlier there are 5m boats and 5m boats . Quite variable in their sea keeping capabilities.  Just out of interest what was your 5m boat and what were it's shortcomings ? ( apart from length )
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote huntfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 8:58am
huntfish View Drop Down
Gold
Gold


Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Location: Marlborough
Status: Offline
Points: 697
Hi Clank, as always there are so many differing opinions and answers which is to be expected. I have a Frewza F16 with a 90 4s and regularly do trips in open water of up to 160km. I boat around Marlborough and the Cook Strait which you may or may not have any idea where that is but believe me the seas can be very nasty. I have total confidence in this rig and have never taken any water over the bow regardless of the sea state. It is very sea worthy if driven to the conditions and if you have done your homework before leaving port re conditions. I have an 80lt u/f tank which helps considerably with weight distribution and also aids handling, it also provides confidence in knowing I will not run out of fuel, it averages 10ltrs an hour at 22knts, a big trip will use just over half a tank with motor never being turned off after leaving ramp until we get back to ramp at end of trip so it is going for 8-9 hrs usually.
I very rarely need to stand to drive as it rides so well, I regularly fish among 6-9m trailer boats and often get strange looks but I have not been in a situation yet that has had me worried for my safety, it out performs it's size in my opinion.
It does not pound at all and is extremely stable when fishing. I agree with the people who mention the stability and buoyancy comes from hull shape not the pontoon itself, the thing some people don't mention is that if you look at the hull shape from behind, a conventional hull will have similar chines but often the sides go straight up from there or with a slight curve whereas a pontoon from behind has a more rounded chine / side profile which I believe helps the stability even more as it displaces more water when at rest. My boat hardly moves with 2 men on one side netting a fish, some boats with deep vee's and wide chines of a similar size will heel over in the same situation because of the chine / side profile relationship in my opinion. If you are hoping the pontoons keep you afloat when full I think you have got into a very bad situation and any boat full of water means you've had a disaster and life proper jackets are more appropriate. Water shouldn't be coming into a boat.
Long story to say that there are boats of this size that can handle what you are wanting to do.
Of course people will also disagree with me and the "frewza" brigade, but to me real life experience counts for more than theory and numbers and for this I stand by the above 100% as I have physically experienced it myself. I will add I have spent thousands of hours over my 53 years on boats of different sizes and shapes as well I did a stint selling boats which included new Rayglass, HH, Stabicraft, CSB as well as s/h rigs so I have some basis to my findings, not saying I am right but not a total green horn either.
Apologies for the essay....
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 9:03am
Steps View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Sth Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 6566
fatalities occur
 careful when interpreting stats.. politicans are masters at it
and what were it' For example with more fatailties in under 6m boats couild just mean more 6m boats and /or more ppl in under 6m boats.
A comparison could be made on that basis that cars are more dangerous than motor bikes simply because more ppl have fatalities in in cars..
 A issue I have been looking at recently is thew relationship between plaining boat length/ weight and how well powered in bar accidents.
To date it seems underpowered even min powered boats run into more accidents issues than well powered.. reason possibly be as example, is that a bad call not watching sets (freak wave) type situation, a well powered boat can accelerate very quick, across in front of next wave to to a better position of the next braking wave.
 Have observed this sort of thing couple times on manukau / waikato bars now.. boats heading out before and after us. 1 a 7m boat behind us, we climbed a huge unexpected, next bigger, the 7m went acroos, just see the tip of the mast, we where getting ready to radio in / rescue. Would not have made the wave behind us, and if did not have the power, would have been rolled.
The thing on a bar, a low swell long period has waves stand up, out at sea nice rolling swell. A small swell short period , small bar waves, out at sea a crappy more 'chop'.
 And how a smaller boat (any boat) handles chop swells is about weight/ power ratios more than length. classic example is how surf life savers can whizz around.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MikeAqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 9:24am
MikeAqua View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Location: Nelson
Status: Offline
Points: 2122
The biggest common factor in fatalities last time I looked at boating fatality stats was: No Lifejacket

Going offshore: wear your Censored lifejacket, preferably with a PLB (w integral GPS) securely attached to it.

Even better have a charged, handheld VHF attached to your life jacket .  A compact strobe light won't hurt either (mine came free with my PLB).  All IPx7 or better.

No guarantees, but a lifejacket and a GPS-PLB give you a chance of being found before hypothermia sets in.  The VHF and strobe may come in handy if rescuers are close but having trouble finding you.

Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote clank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 6:43pm
clank View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 104
Originally posted by SufixRockMan SufixRockMan wrote:

I'm still interested in what constitutes out wide? Anchorite or Little Barrier from Sandspit?


Hi SuffixRockMan,

I wasn't meaning Anchorite or Little Barrier as being out wide. Many 5 mtr boats are out there no problem.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ffocus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 5:52am
ffocus View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 140
Originally posted by peeda peeda wrote:

Some good comments here so far. As for sub 5m boats going offshore, I have game fished off a 495 surtees over the manukau bar and I've been out to the back of the mokes in one. 

I also have taken out my old 4.2m thundercat with a 50hp strapped to the back over the manukau bar in some rough conditions. However in saying that, the thundercat DID make the 6-7m boats I was cruising past over the bar look silly. 



I second that, i have a slightly bigger thundercat which i use to get pretty much anywhere.......so stable and the water just falls straight back out the stern. Do get some funny looks from the big flash boats at times......
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 6:10am
pjc View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 8902
You can take any vessel anywhere when conditions are right,the trick is to keep an eye on the weather and have the means to run for shelter fast.

We all most swamped a 10ft parker craft in 4 m of water between kkb ramp and the island (mcCallums?)no wind sunny day,noticed black clouds coming from the west,next minute 20knts westerly waves up all within 1/2k of the ramp,10 minutes later suns out no wind.

The way the day started (1st 3 hrs)you could of gone across the firth,why take the risk,get the right vessel for your requirements and competence of vessel handling,why become another statistic?

Never made a bar crossing,no inclination to ever do so.
Even Jesus had a fish story
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 8:29am
Steps View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Sth Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 6566
You can take any vessel anywhere when conditions are right
 Yep
 Again comes down to abiity to undersatand weather maps, iso bar lines, predictions, even cloud formations on the day.

Anyone read  "old Manand the Sea"  Monsarrat the author from memory.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 9:00am
pjc View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 8902
Earnest Hemingway, Thats what we use to refer Dad too.

a good winter days watch

Even Jesus had a fish story
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote rowboat bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 9:10am
rowboat bob View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 414
Ernest Hemingway wrote Old Man and the Sea. Used to be a school curriculum book. He'd spent some time at sea! I remember being becalmed in Tamaki Strait trying to sail home. It was clear blue skies without a cloud in the sky. Ahead I saw a ruffle line on the water which turned out to be 25kn. This then rose to 30kn for the rest of the afternoon. The more time you spend at sea the more strange things you see.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MikeAqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 4:37pm
MikeAqua View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Location: Nelson
Status: Offline
Points: 2122
Ernest Hemingway also wrote: -

"One time in Africa we lost the corkscrew and had to survive on food and water for weeks"
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote clank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 11:33pm
clank View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 104

Back to Top
Page  <12
Forum Jump
Forum Permissions View Drop Down


This page was generated in 0.098 seconds.