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Is heave and leave the only option ?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote O'Neill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 12:42pm
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So the question has to be asked is Fish and Game acting in the best interests of a key licence holder in the area, fly anglers?  And who in the Eastern region suggested such a change? Why not take away spin fishing from some areas such as a key spawning stream and encourage FF instead of creating conflict on the water?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote RC17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 12:52pm
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I think that's the point, why?

Has a body of anglers requested that they can go cast a spinner at Ruato Bay in Winter?

And surely if you are allowing spinning then you also have to allow boat fishing within 200m of stream mouths for the jigging anglers? 

It feels more to me that this is an idea that someone believes may encourage more people to fish and buy licenses, but to me its change for the sake of change.

Boat and lure fisherman of which I am one for 9 months of the year get ample opportunity to target fish that fly fisherman can't for the majority of the year, it doesn't seem much to ask that across maybe 10 locations during winter across Rotoiti, Okataina, and Tarawera that fly fisherman are given a fair crack to do the same. 

If all fishing in Rotorua region was closed to all except fly fisherman in the off-season then that would be a different story and probably need to be addressed, but it's not. 

It's probably worth pointing out also that during the peak times of rain etc over winter it's already hard enough to get a reasonable spot, the locations being referred to usually only fish productively to a handful of rods at most targeting the best lies. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 1:16pm
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My apologies if this offends some on here but sort of related- why have a closed season at all in  fishery that is largely a take fishery and managed with releases each year ? I mean Lakes Rotoiti , tarawera, Okataina etc . Apart from very obvious spawning areas such as spawning streams and maybe a few release sites that should remain closed in winter) why shouldnt the rest of the lake remain open?   Taupo for instance allows lake fishing in winter , spawning streams get a hiding from anglers yet there are still too many fish in  the system (for available food source)  The Rotorua lakes can be managed accordingly - up till now this management seems to be working well?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote O'Neill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 1:56pm
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So who has come up with the idea? Why should fly anglers loose their fishing opportunities limited as they are so others can disturb their fishing?I would expect the spin anglers will come from boat anglers who already hold a licence so any increase in sales will be minimal at best while creating discontent among fly anglers.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mossy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 3:39pm
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Originally posted by O'Neill O'Neill wrote:

So who has come up with the idea? Why should fly anglers loose their fishing opportunities limited as they are so others can disturb their fishing?I would expect the spin anglers will come from boat anglers who already hold a licence so any increase in sales will be minimal at best while creating discontent among fly anglers.

According to the F&G release, the rule was a 'follow on from a relaxing of regulations that occurred in 2012/2013 to promote a less exclusive fishing environment.'

I don't see any mention of fly fishers having opportunities taken from them, and I'm sorry to say that most of the arguments against allowing spinners to share these waters seem somewhat elitist.

I agree however that it would be a shame to see people using surfcasting-style methods on the shoreline areas, however flyfishos already do that as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote O'Neill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 9:50am
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I've just got an email back from F and G Eastern. I'll hopefully be getting a response from Matt Osbourne once he is back in the office next week.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Micsam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 1:56pm
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Spinning at most of the release/spawning sites is just a drag anyway. Because it’s generally so shallow (pipe maybe excluded) it means your casting every few seconds after having to wind in to stay off bottom. If one goes so light on the jig head/spinner to compensate then casting distance and feel to the lure greatly suffer. Also zero confidence spinning/soft baiting at night compared to fly fishing, so don’t stress it guys.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 5:58pm
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RC 17 is quite right if spinning gear were allowed most meat hunters would turn up with distance casting gear and heave boobies or globugs far beyond a fly fisher can cast.
 
I have covered most release points at Rotoiti and the majority are shallow and full of weed which would make true spinning a joke.   
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote O'Neill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 6:19pm
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Unfortunately they will probably adopt a bubble float fly approach for use at night, a small lead and heave and leave during the day and some stream mouths do have good drop offs,(but close on the 30th June) be interesting to see to what extent this if it is adopted what and where will be allowed? Will the current restrictions remain and only apply to the areas open after 1st July from the shore? 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 8:32pm
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Originally posted by Mossy Mossy wrote:

Originally posted by O'Neill O'Neill wrote:

So who has come up with the idea? Why should fly anglers loose their fishing opportunities limited as they are so others can disturb their fishing?I would expect the spin anglers will come from boat anglers who already hold a licence so any increase in sales will be minimal at best while creating discontent among fly anglers.

According to the F&G release, the rule was a 'follow on from a relaxing of regulations that occurred in 2012/2013 to promote a less exclusive fishing environment.'



 
One of the great things about fly fishing in NZ is that there are areas with quality trout that anyone from any background can have a go - unlike the country my ancestors came from. 

I taught myself to fly fish using very basic cheap gear that I bought with my own money earned from holiday jobs, and the whole time i've fished at Taupo etc I've fished beside people from all walks of life - including many locals who've mentioned they were beneficiaries or had very seasonal income. Some pretty rough diamonds.

So to me, the fly fishing experience since the mid 1980s has been the opposite of "elitist". There is come of that creeping in, with access issues to some prime high country rivers, but not in the areas we are talking about.
you can still put a kit together for a fairly small spend. In many of the top spots you can fish very effectively in gumboots. And the licence cost is minimal. 

Are those advocating for spin to be allowed because it's unfair to only allow fly also happy to see bait fishing there as well - maybe with roe in a little mesh bag like in Northern California? Because that 'let's be inclusive' argument would logically extend to bait methods too.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishb8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 9:38pm
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maybe with roe in a little mesh bag like in Northern California?

Ever been to Waipapa dam? you'll see all sorts of tackle and baits and some really friendly guys. Doesn't pay to be too precious at times.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 11:11pm
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I fished the Waipapa Tailrace quite a bit when I lived in Hamilton, if that's the water you're referring to. i never fished Waipapa Dam, though.
I always used spin gear (small ball sinker with a trace to the smelt fly) and I've mentioned the tailrace on the forum as a great spot for keen fishos in the Waikato to tangle with big trout using that method. if they want to fish baits and they are legal, go for it.

Met plenty of locals in those days, happily fishing side by side with them.

I'm not at all precious about methods in particular situations and areas. For one thing, it'd be nearly impossible to fish the tailrace area using fly gear. 

And no worries from me about people using spin gear heave and leave in some areas of the Rotorua lakes. I've done it myself off the main jetty at Okataina and a jetty at Tarawera - with Booby flies, not eggs.
But, as per the reasons i gave in my post re the two methods being incompatible without tangles in a stream mouth, I think it's fair enough to have limited fly only areas.

As with most regulations across society, it's all about where you reasonably draw the line - and in the case of stream mouths, the line in the sand for me is a fly line.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishb8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2020 at 7:16am
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Yes, it is the dam at the end of Waipapa into Arapuni and have seen roe in mesh bags, skipjack tuna and all sorts.
Went there a couple of weeks ago and tried to get down to a spot between the spillway and the tailrace as I used to get some good trout there. However, it's all grown over and impossible to get to.
I also used to fish at the Mangwhio stream mouth, a good bush bash North of the tailrace and used to get some good fish there too. The guys at the tailrace told me a new track had been made so decided to try it.
I have a 4wd RAV4 and the track is good enough for a FWD. However, when I got there I saw the skin and guts of a very recently butchered sheep - no flies. It's only 50 metres from the stream mouth but it's so overgrown and the stream narrowed from 40 to 50 metres wide to less than 10. Not fishable at all! I wonder why so much trouble was taken to build a track to nowhere??
You can fish along the right bank as there is a bike trail that takes you past a couple of stream mouths.

A floating bibbed minnow could be used at the Rotorua stream mouths. Cast into stream and let the current take it out then wind, stop, wind stop or use a soft plastic with upwards hook to avoid snagging.
I still think that the stream mouths should stay fly-fishing.
A mate who is a real joker took a surfcasting rod and started using it at the T-T river mouth and got some anglers really wound up. He was only using a sinker with no lure or hook and technically not fishing at all and never needed a licence. Think he tried on a couple of river mouths and eventually a ranger had a word - no infringement notice just a safety warning and a chuckle.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote O'Neill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2020 at 7:53am
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If the discussion starts this week with Matt at Fand G that will be one of the questions, what about stream mouths that close prior to the 1st July (start of the winter season)and are currently FF only, specifically the ones at Tarawera and Rotoiti the two lakes where rules proposal could impact on.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote RC17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 9:13am
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We have a bach at Otaramarae, and the depth is probably 1m deep for about 20m off the end of our jetty. I played around with a heave and leave method with the spinning rod and managed to pick up my one and only fish from the end of our jetty doing this. It's amazing how far you can cast a sinker / glo bug combo on a basic spinning set up, I was getting 50m out there without to much effort. Having seen the effectiveness of it I have no doubt it would work well at the likes of Ruato Bay during the day, with the ability to get out to the slightly deeper water where the fish retreat to outside of darkness. It is basically surfcasting though and I'm not sure that really fits in with the theme of shoreline winter fishing when you are halfway out to the 5 knot bouys haha. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Micsam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 1:07pm
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Just to make it clear that I’d rather analyse grass growth on my lawn than go hiff a sinker and glowbug out during the day, but if someone wants to do that good on them. What’s the concern that they catch fish? Rotorua lakes are put and take anyway.
Also it’s just pure speculation that fish just hold a bit deeper during the day and then come in at night. For all we know fish might come in from a couple kilometres away especially the silver ones!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote RC17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 3:55pm
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I guess the beauty of heave and leaving off our jetty was that I could both "fish" and watch our lawn grow at the same time, win win!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 4:22pm
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RC - Must be the ultimate hooking a fish off your own jetty.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote taurangatroutmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 6:49pm
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Any form of fishing is better than watching grass grow. Sure fly fishings better but scrapping a big rainbow on a light spin set with braid from 50m plus out in the lake sounds like a whole lot of fun to me.flyfishing only areas should stay that way though
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2020 at 8:06pm
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Sure is, TTM. I had a go off a bach jetty at Tarawera and got some nice ones on Olive/Black Booby - cast well out into probably 15m of water.
As someone else said, not exactly riveting stuff, but a decent option when you don't have access to a boat and you're not impacting on anyone fishing at a stream mouth...

What I didn't like to see was people doing heave and leave and wandering off up to their bach leaving the rod unattended. I'm pretty sure that's against the regs, put and take fishery or not.
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