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Is heave and leave the only option ?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fenwick1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is heave and leave the only option ?
    Posted: 17 Jun 2020 at 7:15pm
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Hi ,advice time for a frustrated fisho.
Am chasing spawning trout along the lake edges here in Rotovegas.
Not having any luck with the fly rod .
Am fishing in shallow water to sighted fish but they are not interested in traditional and bright flouro colored streamers.
Am using a floating line as theirs a few ugly sunken snags and the  water is only about 1/2 to 1.5m deep.
I know the heave and leave boys are out in force at present but not sure this method would work in my preferred spot ??
So any bright ideas .....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2020 at 8:24pm
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What about a very small unweighted egg fly cast out and dropping slowly into their path? 
Some of the realistic egg patterns have a little bit of weight from the resin plus hook and would sink deep enough.
They would be less alarming to wary fish than big bright streamers, I would have thought.
Or maybe try a small nymph with a bit of movement - say a wee wet with soft hackle, or a damsel style pattern with marabou tail. Something with a very small orange or pink hot spot might trigger a bite?

The Americans like using egg sucking leech flies - basically a big drab streamer with what looks like an egg in their mouth. so if you tie your own flies, a Woolly Bugger/bully fly with an orange blob at the front might be worth a go. 

Obviously going back at night with a typical glowing night fly would be the other option. But if you're focused on trying to solve the daytime dilemma, that's not the answer you're looking for.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fenwick1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2020 at 8:51pm
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Thanks , will give it ago as got to nail 1 or 3 before the area closes .
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Micsam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2020 at 4:57pm
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Fish at night mate, less moon the better. Don’t waste your time with cruising day fish they are often dark anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 9:16pm
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True right     Night brings in the good fish.      Before the globug H/L was invented anglers had good success fishing floating lines with a big black rabbit are marabou fly and a small lumo pattern on a 50cm dropper truck and trailer fashion on a slow retrieve just under the surface.    
Rainbow 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 7:47am
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Stand corrected but hasn't the Rotorua stream/river mouth fishing
closed as from last Wednsday until Oct 1 st  2020 ?
A lady says to her doctor: "My husband has a habit of talking in his sleep! What should I give him to cure it ?"

The doctor replies: "Give him an opportunity to speak when he's awake!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 9:16am
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Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:

Stand corrected but hasn't the Rotorua stream/river mouth fishing
closed as from last Wednsday until Oct 1 st  2020 ?

Consider yourself corrected, Bazza Tongue Check the Eastern Region regulations which are available online - there are several places including Rotoiti, Okataina, Tarawera and Rotoma where some shoreline places (essentially the release points) stay open all year round. The exceptions are specifically listed in the schedules.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishb8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 12:03pm
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There are some stream mouths in the Rotorua area where spinning is allowed, I think.  Have Google earthed named areas for fly fishing only and have seen some stream mouths not mentioned??
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 4:04pm
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Originally posted by Fishb8 Fishb8 wrote:

There are some stream mouths in the Rotorua area where spinning is allowed, I think.  Have Google earthed named areas for fly fishing only and have seen some stream mouths not mentioned??

The regulations I linked above are pretty clear - with the letters for the methods fly, spin or bait ( F S or B) next to specific sites. Some of the stream areas at Rotoiti, for example, are clearly listed as F only within 200m. Ditto Tarawera. 
Pays to study the regs schedule carefully.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote O'Neill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2020 at 7:48pm
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If a current proposal is adopted for the 2020/21 season the fly only winter areas on Tarawera and Rotoiti will be opened to spinning. Anything to get more licence sales so expect to have spinners clashing with fly anglers if adopted. Thanks F and G Eastern.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Downtown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2020 at 8:54pm
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Yeah fly fishers are a tough bunch to deal with
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mossy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 6:25am
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Originally posted by O'Neill O'Neill wrote:

If a current proposal is adopted for the 2020/21 season the fly only winter areas on Tarawera and Rotoiti will be opened to spinning. Anything to get more licence sales so expect to have spinners clashing with fly anglers if adopted. Thanks F and G Eastern.

Apart from any territorial pissings, why would there be any clash between fly fishers and spinners? Surely the easing of fly-only winter areas isn't going to lead to hoards of  spinners descending on the shorelines? Spinning's a great intro to the sport, and fly flinging can seem daunting to some. So I see these changes as a positive for the sport in general, but I am curious to know what the arguments against allowing spinning in these zones are.  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 9:20am
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I am only guessing the ratio of spin or fly water but would imagine it is somewhere in the range of 9 to 1 in favour of spinning so on that basis surely spin fishers cannot justify opening even more.
 
As well as that most FF water is open to Czech fishing which in effect
hardly qualifies as FF when the only time the flyline leaves the end of the rod is when a fish is hooked. As FF is defined as the line function is to carry the fly out whereas with spinning the weight of the lure carries the line out ... with Czech style fitting into the latter.
 
Probably will happen to this post as well but every time this subject arises there is a wave of response from self righteous individuals claiming that spin fishing etc are valid methods & an ideal way to introducing newbies to the sport ... absolutely no argument with that but simply that surely fly fishers have the right to expect the small percentage of FF only water that now exists should not be compromised.
 
Water in NZ exists that are open to all methods including bait on set rods ... what would be the reaction from spin fishers if more of their waters were open to all methods ??     
A lady says to her doctor: "My husband has a habit of talking in his sleep! What should I give him to cure it ?"

The doctor replies: "Give him an opportunity to speak when he's awake!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote O'Neill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 9:33am
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The arguement that fly casting is difficult does not carry weight if you can hammer a nail into a wall you can fly cast, simple.There are very few FF only areas at current, what will happen should this happen? FF only at night or a bunch of spinning chuckers decend on a small peaceful stream mouth? Oh yay!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Downtown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 9:34am
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I could be wrong but I’ve never seen spin fishing only water.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 9:52am
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I guess the history of it was fly fishing being seen by our founding fathers as a higher form of fishing - versus the heathen spinners.

However, the behaviour of many "fly fishers" at places such as Ruato have been well canvassed and debated on this forum (those who camp in the carpark and essentially reserve the best couple of spots with deck chairs all day).  To me, the armchair heave and leave folk have removed any arguments fly fishers had to the moral high ground at the Rotorua region hot spots.

From a practical point of view, "spinning" in the Rotorua areas often means casting a sinker with a floating egg or Woolly Bugger style fly - and leaving it out there. Not actually casting and retrieving spoons, Tobies etc. It's common at Tarawera jetties, Okataina main beach and other places. 

So I imagine the regulation change could see a row of set lines across the best stream mouth zones.
Where fly fishers in a river mouth casting and retrieving together find their own rhythm and don't tangle as often as you'd think, tangles with set lines would be inevitable.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 10:32am
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Originally posted by Downtown Downtown wrote:

I could be wrong but I’ve never seen spin fishing only water.
 
Who mentioned spin fishing only ??????
 
I am also not aware of any water where it applies & why should it ?
 
Whilst on the subject ... no doubt there are more particularly in the Sth. Is. but as far as "ff only" rivers & streams are concerned the only ones I am aware of are those in the Taupo region & the Ruakituri ... may well be a number of river mouths that are spin permitted.
A lady says to her doctor: "My husband has a habit of talking in his sleep! What should I give him to cure it ?"

The doctor replies: "Give him an opportunity to speak when he's awake!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Downtown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 11:31am
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Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:


I am only guessing the ratio of spin or fly water but would imagine it is somewhere in the range of 9 to 1 in favour of spinning so on that basis surely spin fishers cannot justify opening even more.


FF seems to be legal everywhere and spinning is not. Just because you chose to handicap yourself with a certain method doesn’t mean you should be the only ones to access certain areas.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote O'Neill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 12:30pm
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So why not just learn to flyfish? Imagine the opportunities and fun that will come from learning a life long skill and all that comes with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote RC17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 12:38pm
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I both spin and fly fish amongst other methods such as jigging. 

There is plenty of water open year round in Rotorua that can accommodate spin anglers. Having a lineup of spin anglers biffing weighted glo bugs 40 / 50m off shore at the key spawning points will do nothing to the fishery and in my opinion is unlikely to help boost license sales. 

While the technique is no less admirable than heaving and leaving flies, the extra distance you can cover with the cast and the added stealth of fishing a fully mono line in my opinion will lead to a much higher catch of spawning fish which I can't see how can be a good thing. 

To be honest, if they changed the regs, I think you would find over time much like trollers who converted to jigging you will see the same faces at the same spots, they will just be casting spinning rigs instead of fly fishing and doubling their catch rate... 
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