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Interesting info on marine reserves.

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    Posted: 23 Sep 2003 at 9:50am
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Recently recieved an email with this content. proved to be an interesting read.

Firstly, if you think that Marine reserves have gone away, think again.
There are more proposals than ever on the table. The advocates of Marine
Reserves are just being more stealth and political in their approach.

Firstly, an interestin article in Rodney Times this week. NZ Underwater
Association. Who are they? What are their Motives? NZUA area an organisation
put together by the Commercial Dive Sector of NZ. Their motives are quite
simply to Make more $$$$$. They hope to capitolise on the Clean Blue look
that  Marine Reserves might goive them. Never mind that reserves such as
Tiri will never be clean and clear until the problem of Land Run off is
remidied. Despite their obvious commercial interests, NZUA are sunstantially
Funded and supported by DOC in their bids to establish marine reserves. DOC
has $$$ to give to NZUA, yet  is to poor to establish other important
projects such as Weed and Pest control.

Next:


There are three snippits below which are sent to me by Jim Mikoz. Two of
these snippits support the theory that land run off and Polution are the
greatest contributers to degradation of the Marine Environment - and the
establishment of Marine Reserves will do nothing to correct this.  I receive
many such articles and Scientific research results. All point in the same
direction. There is no basis for Marine Reserves. Never the less, we
continue to see the Minister of Conservervation propogating the myth that
Marine Reserves are the Answer. I can only assume that Minister Carter is
incompetant and Ill Informed, OR that his own political aspirations stand in
the way of good judgment.

I have chosen to send these three examples only because if I copied you on
all the research material I receive, you would be inundated. If you would
like to get more info, please let me know.

The first is an article in the Herald. This article shows quite clearly that
Marine Reserves are an unneccesary imposition. It also reinforces the
concept that the major negative influence to Fish stock and Marine systems
are Land Run off, Polution. Yet another nail in the coffin for the Marine
Reserves Act so blindly adhered to by DOC, F&B, and the minister of
conservation.



Go to these links.

> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3524253&msg=emaillink
>
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storyprint.cfm?storyID=3524253


The second is a snippit from Jim Mikoz.

On page 73 of the paper "Natural Ecosystem Research Evaluation 2002/03"
there is a link to types of users connected in the programme.  There you
will find under the heading "Fishing ecosystem effects" and along side
Mfish, MfE, DoC and Forrest and Bird.  F & B are then defined as users?  On
page 33 there is reference to users, however there is no mention of rec
fishers as a user or being able to offer any assistance to identify national
research priorities.  Page 5 probably sums up what is going to be the major
problem.  Just how or when is FRST going to get all those Government and
regional councils and local authorities  to work together when they work
within silos unable to communicate within their own organisations let alone
with others?  But where are the other nine Government Departments with their
twenty five statues concerning the marine environment?  Even a simplified
pathway on eel fishery research used as an example on page 68 has missed a
major factor.  No practical experience is obvious.

Have a read anyway you will see where your money goes or is about to.
Hopefully there will be access to Government research projects in future and
they will have a defined direction with links to past research.  The only
question that will remain is when will it happen?

Yet again we have examples of F&B and DOC getting Funding and political
support for ill conceived uninformed direction. Once again, Rec fishers are
totally ignored.


The next one also comes from Jim


I don't know if you have read the September issue of Seafood New Zealand but
there is a follow on story by Elizabeth Light called "Forever Connected"
about tidal ecosystems on page 34 that relates to the wetlands of Raglan
Harbour.  They have been restoring the wetlands and the cattle are being
fenced off  and now they have had three visits of Orcas in one year .  Rob
have you looked for any increase in dolphins number off that harbour yet?
We had conservation at Te Papa after your talk regarding wetland restoration
at Raglan which I think should have a direct influence on yellow eyed mullet
numbers, the major food source of dolphins.  Have you looked for any
increase in YEM numbers yet?

Once again we see more proof of the relationship between The Land and the
marine environment. Yet, we are not seeing any support for the concept that
Marine Reserves with total no take policy will do anything for the Marine
Environment.

How much longer do we have to tolerate the Anti Science Policy of the
Current Minister of Conservation and his lackeys at DOC? Remember, it costs
us at least $10,000,000 per year, to keep this man??? in office.

Sorry to take up so much of you time- Damian



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote odin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2003 at 10:49pm
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Dont be sorry Damien. This is all pertinant stuff that we all need to know. it highlights the BS that is been foisted on us by our very own elected officials 7 eco-nazi organisations like Forest & Bird & NZUA (although I believe that it is only a minority faction of NZUA) When you have people like Dick Belamy (Dean of Science, Auckland University) & Peter Maddison,(Forest & Bird execitive) standing up at public meetings & using their scientific credentials to try & establish credence, but then talk from an emotive perspective not a factual one then you know that their entire premise is based on flawed logic.

See Septembers issue of Investigate Magazine on Paradise Conspiricy to see the facts of how devious & underhanded these Bastards can be.

Regards

odin

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote odin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2003 at 6:44am
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Hi Guys

I have just received a newsletter update on the West Coast RESERVES from Sand & Sea.

Here it is

 

A Group of concerned Coastal Users interested in preserving our coast and maintaining our rights to access and use our coastal resource in a responsible and sustainable manner.

 

http://www.sandandsea.net.nz

A Paradise Conspiracy

If you are not convinced about the deception in respect to the proposed Marine Park,  or just wish to read about, Scoot down to your local book store and purchase the latest issue (Sept 2003) of Investigate Magazine.   This issue has a feature article on the entire farce, focusing on the process surrounding the west coast marine park/ reserves proposal. Refer pages 32 – 45.

 

In this article the Convener of the West Coast Working Group says that the submissions from the public on the proposed marine park could be “thrown in the wastepaper basket.”

 

Can’t get to the bookshop?? You can purchase on line at SPAN style=font-FAMILY: Times New Roman "> http://www.investigatemagazine.tv//SPAN

 

Want to view some of the documents extracted using the Official Information Act..  Go to our web site   http://www.sandandsea.net.nz/latest.htm

 

Positive Results

Sand And Sea has maintained from the start that enforcement of the current rules will go a long way to protect our coast.  Maybe the government departments are starting to get the message,  MOF have just appointed 6 additional officers for the Auckland area…. To focus entirely on the recreational fishing scene.   Good On you Ministry Of Fisheries.  

16 members of Sand And Sea has just completed a “Fish Care Course” organized by SAS and MOF This enables our members to assist MOF in the education of responsible usage of our great coast… More to come…

Submissions Close 30 Sept 2003

30 September is the last day for submissions / Questionnaires to be sent to Forest & Bird re the “Wild West Coast” Marine Park proposal.  If you know of anyone who has not yet had his or her say then please contact us and we will send out the appropriate information,  or just visit SPAN style=font-SIZE: 10pt; font-FAMILY: Times New Roman ">http://www.option4.co.nz/wcpsubform.htm/SPAN and post your submission online

Regards John van der Haas

Sand And Sea

PO Box 60379 Titirangi, Auckland
http://www.sandandsea.net.nz

mailto:[email protected]

If you do not wish to receive any future newsletter then please send an email to SPAN style=COLOR: navy"> mailto:[email protected]/SPAN with Unsubscribe in the subject field

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Damo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2003 at 1:08pm
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All good stuff too.

Have been thinking (can ya smell the smoke) about how silted up the Long bay reserve must be by now what with all the development on the Shore and with the motorway construction etc. I wonder has anybody dived it lately (in the last year or so) and could they see the effects of silt and sediment build up. Wouldn't mind betting there is a fair bit of bitumen silt on the bottom!

Damian



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2004 at 10:13pm
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hey some great thoughts being aired here.

i agree that pollution is a major cause of fisheries degredation, but then so is overfishing  by both commercial guys and also some rec. users too. I think that SOME reserves have got to be good, tho not as many as are being suggested... how about some lateral thinking.  What about closing an area for 5/8/10 yrs and then opening it up again to rec. fishers and see if there has been an improvement. Make some areas. recreational only. Breed and release more fish. Improve run off issues and boaties BE AWARE of what u are throwing/pumping etc into the ocean.

 

Beaches and Waterways are for ALL New Zealanders

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2004 at 7:32am
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welcome to the fishing.net.nz forums JT!
I am Kermit, Leader of Muppets Nov 05
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2004 at 5:15pm
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Damian, you say "NZUA are an organisation put together by the Commercial Dive Sector of NZ."

NZUA was set up by, and still is controlled by, the dive clubs.  Not the shops.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2004 at 10:22am
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hey JT, Im with you in the recreational only fishing areas.

But about the number of marine reserves, I think we should have more. Ive been doing some reading into marine reserves and apparently its best to have a 'network' of them. This increases the benefits to us about a ten-fold because the fish have lots of space to breed and migrate to and their populations boom. When the fish are swimming between the reserves, we can catch'em. It would be like a huge breed and release program of its own. Also the reserves don't have to be big. I think the benefits to fishing (populations and size ) would justify cutting a km out of our costline here and there.

Problem is that at the moment the govenment hasn't agreed to support a plan for marine reserves so the authorities are just cutting huge areas out.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2004 at 11:08pm
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TW,

I have recently been to a presentation by a so called top scientist, who advocates a network of marine reserves as you mention. This meeting was attented by about 25 people, of whom 5 were known to me and were opposing his views, possibly one member of the public (who left early) and the balance were faithful followers (rent-a-crowd) and Doc staff.

When challenged on our right as living creatures to eat fresh fish, he (unbelieveably) stated that people did not go fishing to catch fish to eat, but to have fun. I will grant that there is satisfaction in catching and yes it is fun, but only on a par with the fun and satisfaction of providing any of the foods we provide for ourselves to eat, vegetable or meat. He went on to suggest we should work harder and earn more money so we can buy our fish from the supermarket.....????

Bearing in mind that no-take marine reserves are for scientific research and not a fishery management tool, why do scientists and DoC continue to suggest that a marine reserve is to encourage a population boom in fish stocks. Our fisheries regulations were set up to do that. Better management of those regulations can achieve that. We do not need two sets of regulations to achieve the same end. That is a recipe for confusion and disaster. Marine reserves are not going to protect our environment from problems such as silting, or foreign organisms arriving attached to ships hulls etc. Marine reserves will not benefit humans, as they are designed to stop us from accessing a food source, even on a small scale. Marine reserves will shut your children and your grandchildren, forever, out of the resource. Let the Fishery tool manage the fish stocks.

The meeting I attended, was funded by DoC, but the information presented is unavailable to see now. The question has to be asked, why is DoC financially backing personal veiwpoints of certain people? (with our tax dollars)

I suggest, no-take marine reserves are not a solution to the degradation of our marine environment. Better managment of both run-off from the land and the commercial catch has more to do with a solution.

Is the Government trying to find a way to fund the costs of the tail that is now wagging the dog? Marine reserves will be user-pay.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2004 at 7:38pm
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Chips,
Thanks for contributing your reactions and opinions to fishing.net.  It is fantastic that you went along to the meeting and have been thinking about it enough to write something about it.  Now, as Fishing.net's official reserve bigott, I feel I should get out my big mouth once again and bore you all silly in response (yet again)!:

"people did not go fishing to catch fish to eat, but to have fun"

Probably about 70% right there, if you carry most people's true motivations through to their ultimate end.  I can earn enough to buy fish in a very short time, but enjoy catching it instead, along with a host of other non-food benefits (see other current thread 'Why we fish').

"why do scientists and DoC continue to suggest that a marine reserve is to encourage a population boom in fish stocks. Our fisheries regulations were set up to do that"

No they weren't, they were set up to stop poulations booming, and to manage them at a low level that is most efficient for the industrial fishing sector to harvest them.

"Better management of those regulations can achieve that. We do not need two sets of regulations to achieve the same end. "

Quota management systems are quite good, but also have limitations - such as when dealing with resident populations or those which cannot be reliable estimated (such as kingfish).  Closed areas may be more effective in protecting reef fish or even snapper - some of which seem to be pelagic, and some of which seem to be largely resident reef fish. 

Reserves have another 'end': protect habitat from destructive fishing practices.  Protecting some of the deep seamounts, as this govt has, will stop destructive bottom dredging on those areas.  That should preserve some of the habitat for the future.  Stories abound of boats dragging a seamount until they stop pulling up black coral in their nets .

You seem to have faith in the existing regulations, yet the govt is still managing fish stocks at what many would consider a 'knife edge' level.  Marine scientists express concern about the true sustainability of stock levels (refer Roger Grace, Wade Doak, & Malcolm Francis' discussions on Wade Doak's internet forum).   If we have a few bad recruitment years (remember we are in uncertain climactic times), some stocks could easily crash.  If there are residue healthy spawning populations in localised areas, then that will assist greatly in rebuilding from that point. 

Don't have so much faith in the QMS - because the fisheries scientists certainly do not! They realise they are dealing with much uncertainty and best guesses are not guaranteed to be correct, in fact the only guarantee is that we will learn more and find they were incorrect.

Finally, we do not know very much, in the scheme of things, about marine eco-system management (interdepence of stocks, interplay or stock levels, impacts on other sealife, our other impacts of pollution, habitat degradation through siltation, etc).  we are in effect 'playing God' by trying to manage numerous stocks at the shocking level of 80% depletion.  Do you think we might benefit by leaving some areas in a natural state or as close as possible to it, with which to compare our management efforts, to gauge how depleted the stocks really are, and to allow natural interdependent relationships to be retained? Like in economics - sometimes the best management of a complicated system is no management.

"Marine reserves are not going to protect our environment from problems such as silting, or foreign organisms arriving attached to ships hulls etc."

No, but they may provide some refuges where healthier ecosystems exist which retain at least some ability to fight these problems.  Everyone agrees, we must fight these other issues also - and the regional councils are now doing quite a bit actually to change the situation. 

"Marine reserves will shut your children and your grandchildren, forever, out of the resource"

Marine reserves will be places you and your grandchildren can go to experience what the rest of our depleted seas were once like.  If we really stuff it all up, they are a last chance to rebuild fish stocks ruined by this generation's greed.  I am forever greatful of the reserves created at Goat Island and the Poor Knights.  Please do yourself a favour - go and dive there and then come back and tell us that reserves are a bad thing. 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SOUS MARINE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2004 at 4:17pm
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Hi Reidfish,

since when has GRACE,DOAK and FRANCIS been marine specialists who have sampling experience or the resource?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2004 at 4:29pm
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Its a shame we are where we are. We have DOC and its rent a crowd (read F&B) on one side wanting to lock us out of the accessible parts of the coast. On the other side we have the goverment who only care about the commercial fisheries and keeping the greens on side. And we the users of the coast stuck in the middle getting sharfted.

I wonder with Tainui (spelling) dropping its support to labour they will look to show us (read rec fish) more support to try and catch votes ?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote tonto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2004 at 4:38pm
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Reidfish, I don't think that anyone is saying reserves are not a good thing, it is the way we are being told that all fishing is bad and that all we will be able to do in the future is look at the fish. Also the sites that are being touted are incredulous. I beleive in all things in moderation but it seems Doc and co are hell bent on a no take fishery. NOT realistic in my view 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2004 at 4:51pm
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I think the local councils should be more aware of how much of a resource the coastal area in their boroughs is and how much they are lacking in their control of runoff(nutrient) and pollution.Banksie has time to fluff around with his v8 buddies how about taking a look at how we are managing our water ways and getting involved in what its rate payers future resources will be.But i am sure itll be an easy buck to pass so they just leave it to the policy makers in the associated government departments.......Noticed the stevenson family on this years rich list they should pay for some of the asbestos they dumped in the bottom of onehunga to be removed,as it has to be affecting the manukau etc,etc,etc,etc its just ongoing the in crowd are robbing the poor crowd and blaming the poor crowd for the reduction of resources then punishing the poor crowd so they can plunder whats left,THEY CALL IT ECONOMIC GROWTH,i call it selling ones prosterior to look good this friday night.................

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2004 at 5:10pm
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Dog - you can't expect companies to take responsibility for their past actions when you talk about the sea 'cos you just get accused of sniping instead of looking forwards. 

I guess Messr Doak, Fancis, and Grace don't have any real experience at all.  Not many years' diving experience there, and not much knowledge either.  Maybe they have a vested interest - um, like .... caring about the sea?  In my view, they have more credibility than people who think it's absolutely OK to try to manage our fisheries at 80% empty.

Tonto, DOC is not trying to stop all fishing. They just want to protect some areas properly. 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2004 at 5:28pm
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This article was published today in MPA news (U color=#0000ff www.mpanews.org/U).  I suspect the 38% includes various forms of protection, and the actual protection measures are yet to be sorted out.  It is importat to note that the rest of the world does not always have the same focus on total protection of marine areas as we do.  Some of you will think this is good and that we should learn from them.  Of course others might say that it is they who should learn from us.  Make your own call.

* Germany: 38% of marine waters proposed as MPAs *

More than one third of Germany's total marine area could consist of MPAs under a national plan to designate 10 sites in the country's Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) as protected areas. Designed in part to bring Germany into compliance with the EU Birds and Habitats Directives, the plan would raise the protected percentage of all of Germany's marine waters (its EEZ and territorial sea combined) to 38 percent. Germany nominated the 10 sites - located in the Baltic Sea and North Sea - to the European Commission in May.

Two of the sites, designed specifically to protect birds, took effect immediately upon nomination. The remaining eight sites - protecting fauna, flora and/or habitats - must be approved by the European Commission, a process that could take "a couple of years", says Henning von Nordheim, head of marine and coastal nature conservation for the German federal agency for nature conservation. Germany will set regulations for each site as Commission approval comes.

The EU Birds and Habitats Directives aim to maintain biodiversity through conservation of species and natural habitats, including development of a coherent European ecological network of protected zones - the Natura 2000 network. Germany is also a contracting party to OSPAR (the convention for the protection of the marine environment in the north-east Atlantic) and HELCOM (the Baltic marine environment protection commission), each of which has set a goal to create a network of well-managed MPAs by 2010. Von Nordheim says states within Germany are expected next year to nominate more MPAs within the territorial sea, raising the protected percentage of German waters beyond 40 percent.

For more information:

Henning von Nordheim, German Federal Agency for Nature Conservation, Isle of Vilm, 18581 Putbus/Rugen, Germany. Tel: +49 38301 86 120; E-mail: henning.vo[email protected]

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bump - from 2003
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