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If you were wanting a sword!?

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    Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 6:35pm
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Titanium
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So I'm after a sword for my first time to complete my NZ experience bucket list.

As much as I have my own views I'm always open to other opinions.

Learning is a passion for me.

Don't need a record just trying to get a result.

So I'll be happy to accept your opinion, advice and insights.

I believe the season is soon approaching so would like to take advantage this season to achieve my goal and at last tick the final item in the nz box.

I know it could take me years, I'm up for that.

But as a fisherman/angler any valuable insights would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Matt
Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Rozboon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 8:04pm
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Never done it personally, but this is what I've gleaned from studying/talking to the people who seem to know what they're doing:

Don't screw around with gear, the reel needs to be a 50 or an 80; good modern 50s seem up to the task and will be a little easier on the angler - Shimano Talica/Tiagra, Penn VSX or VISX, Okuma Makaira. Spool it with 100lb+ hollowcore; you don't need the breaking strain, but the added thickness will be your friend if the line goes on and off the reel several times under big load.

Rod has virtually got to be a bent butt, Shimano Tiagra Ultra Nano or Abyss bent butt, Kilwell Gladiator, CD Titan Deep Drop or Tournament bent butt, I'm sure there's a bunch more out there.

All the TV stars load up with disco lights on the rig. Usually at least two. Bait seems a little less important? Whole squid, big jack mack, skipjack belly flap stitched up...
Circle hook if you plan to let it go, obviously, perhaps J-hook if you plan to eat it, it's a bit ruthless but the traditional technique seems to have been to give them ages to eat the bait and hook them deep with a big J hook, really hurt the fish and knock it over quickly.

Someone I talked to that has caught a few reckoned go as hard as you can on them. No point pussyfooting about on a crap hook-up and have the hook pull after 3 hours, better to pull the hook out and go find another one. If you go hard and it doesn't fall off you can have confidence that it's well hooked.

Last of all, some epic depth sounder setup. 1kw is probably the entry level here, 2-3kw of juice getting blasted into the deep seems to be the way to go. Finding deep bait schools seems to be step #1.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 9:34pm
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Most I have heard of seem to be in the 4-600m range. I can do that, and do on my 600W transducer. I'm not sure you would need to change that. I have spent more than a few missions trying to catch the first off our area. Must be there. Fish between 500-600m. As said, don't think the bait is too important but I would place a price on frost fish. Disco lights. There are a few vids on rigs and a few differing opinions - worth a google.
What I have learnt - fishing with a guy who has caught a few, we trailed our bait up and down the water column, as well as the drift. We worked 2 dimensions of the fishery. Early morning they have been up feeding - catch them in 50-100m at night. 600m daytime. They go down slowly I am told. So early morning work the column. Let the bait drop to near the bottom, then slowly troll it up along a contour/target area, then let it drop ....
Good luck
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish Addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 11:14pm
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Firstly I have never caught a sword or targeted them but have done heaps of research.
A powerful transducer will allow you see a lot more detail than a 600w unit.  It is common knowledge that swords move up through the water column at night and descend during the day.  They are following the food source which is I believe is the Deep Scattering Layer (DSL).


With a powerful transducer you will be able to see this layer on your sounder and this will allow you to better target the depth of the DSL thus keep your bait(s) in the zone longer.  Therefore bigger is best wrt transducer power.  
Edit:
Here is link to some sounder shots which show the DSL.  The boat co-owner (JohnF) comments in the third post down after the pics that these have not been visible previously.





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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dunwurkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 11:31pm
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Alan what set up are you running getting 400-600m depth on a 600w transducer that’s bloody good going.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2019 at 3:46pm
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I can get fish sign at 550-600m
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MATTOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2019 at 4:26pm
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That's a clear pic there Alan.

Where is yourtransducer positioned and are you stationery.
Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish Addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2019 at 4:37pm
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Originally posted by MATTOO MATTOO wrote:

That's a clear pic there Alan.

Where is yourtransducer positioned and are you stationery.

Almost too clear for my liking, however having said that I am more accustomed to Furuno gear that appears to show more clutter. The first thing I would be doing is taking the Gain off Auto and go to manual Gain. Then crank the Gain up until the water column lights up, then slowly back it off, but not as far as to get a clear screen.
SOG is 0.7kph so yes he is almost stationary.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2019 at 7:03pm
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It is a clear pic, but it shows no fish ... hmmm. Hey. all you guys know more about this than me. I have only weighed the bloody things as a weighmaster. Definitely the coolest fish in NZ waters and I wish you all the best!


Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote krow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2019 at 9:10pm
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That's real good on a 600w. My 1k on 200k will get to 500m but not that clear Also Lowrance HDS2
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Legacy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2019 at 9:18pm
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1kw low chirp out from the Manukau, you can see a few fish at different depths .
Had the gain up higher but dropped it to get a clear blue screen for the photo !
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Legacy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2019 at 9:22pm
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Cruising around with a bit more speed
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 5:50pm
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Originally posted by MATTOO MATTOO wrote:

That's a clear pic there Alan.

Where is yourtransducer positioned and are you stationery.
Drifting for swords. There was no bait sign on that pic - but at around 550m not far from there I have picked up clear bait sign on bottom with those settings.
Transducer is in usual place - RHS about half way up deadrise.
It can hold that quality of pic to at least 10kph at that depth, and still tracks bottom on the plane.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MATTOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 6:00pm
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Titanium
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Thanks,
But hull mounted or transom mounted.
Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 6:01pm
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Transom.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 6:12pm
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Here is a pic of what happens when the settings are not right. It is all in the way you set it up. I did an upgrade on the SD card not long after I had it going good (took a while to get it right). Next time I used it I was out fishing deep again and could barely find bottom. The upgrade had screwed all my settings and it took ages to get them right again - had to start from scratch. Last up grade I do. The sounder was practically useless that day.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 9:49pm
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Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

Originally posted by MATTOO MATTOO wrote:

That's a clear pic there Alan.

Where is yourtransducer positioned and are you stationery.

Almost too clear for my liking, however having said that I am more accustomed to Furuno gear that appears to show more clutter. The first thing I would be doing is taking the Gain off Auto and go to manual Gain. Then crank the Gain up until the water column lights up, then slowly back it off, but not as far as to get a clear screen.
SOG is 0.7kph so yes he is almost stationary.

I get that. I understand where you are coming from. But trust me I can pick up all sorts of layers on those settings. I think that particular day we were on our way home (40k) and came across a strong layer at something like 250-300m in a 500m trench. There was a trawler working there. Didn't know they trawled that deep. But my sounder was showing a clear layer of something. No idea what it was, but we dropped a line down just in case - to approx that depth. I have marked my hollow core dacron off from about 300m in 50m increments. (Use a line counter to do it first time).Got zero. Maybe squid? No idea . the trawler was prob catching something, but we weren't :-).
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish Addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 10:43pm
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Alan as others have said the picture you are getting with a 600w transom mount transducer (tx) is very impressive. Certainly the performance of the tx is better than what Airmar are reporting on their website. Out of interest what model is the tx you are using?
What's your picture like at 12-15kts with the same settings?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rozboon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 10:28am
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Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

Alan as others have said the picture you are getting with a 600w transom mount transducer (tx) is very impressive. Certainly the performance of the tx is better than what Airmar are reporting on their website. Out of interest what model is the tx you are using?
What's your picture like at 12-15kts with the same settings?

600w with 50khz capability, gotta think it's probably the good old P66?

I've seen some pretty decent performance from a P66 on a Furuno FCV-620 but only out to about 300m, different ballgame to 450m+
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 3:54pm
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Originally posted by Rozboon Rozboon wrote:

Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

Alan as others have said the picture you are getting with a 600w transom mount transducer (tx) is very impressive. Certainly the performance of the tx is better than what Airmar are reporting on their website. Out of interest what model is the tx you are using?
What's your picture like at 12-15kts with the same settings?

600w with 50khz capability, gotta think it's probably the good old P66?

I've seen some pretty decent performance from a P66 on a Furuno FCV-620 but only out to about 300m, different ballgame to 450m+

 
Rozboon - correct. P66. I bought the head unit - without transducer. Then posted a query on this forum about what to do for transducer. 2 or 3 favoured ones kept popping up but the majority vote seemed to be P66. So I followed the forum advice and it proved the good oil once again.
Fish Addict - I am on my cruising speed/plane at 15 knts.
At that depth it still gives a bottom profile - but bit scratchy - but enough to tell me where I am on the ridge profile. If I want any fish detail I have to be 10 kph or less. Below about 7 kph it really makes no difference - picture is same whatever.
Regards
Alan
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