Fuel Flow and Economy Figures

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bill fisher 5.5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 9:39pm
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Thanks guys. I’ll take it down to my local Yamaha dealer and see what they think about the motor position. I do have a hydrofoil on it to help get it up on the plane.
Yeah I can troll at 6 knots and the economy gets better, still about 8.5 - 9 lph.
Was the 200hp too heavy for the boat?

I saw an earlier post of a guy with a 565 Billfisher with a 130 Yamaha on it and it looked like some pretty impressive fuel figures. Same block as my 115 but dohc I beleive?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 8:38am
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I would estimate your bill fisher total gros weight normal load around the 1200kg ..
A 115 would be low on min side of powered , but not under
I have a old johnny 150 V6 on the back of a boat similar size weight, no issues. It does sit slightly lower in the stern at rest that is all. The difference is if have a live bait tank full or mt.
 Once on the plane you are on the plane, the stern is skimming the water surface. And if trim right down on hole shot no issues there either.

I do have a hydrofoil on it to help get it up on the plane.
 That will give more drag espec on the troll. If the bow doesnt come up well, and it is important to the day fishing, go to prop with more rake. this will lever the bow down.  It can also help at slow speeds

A bit more power (you mention the 130 hp) and 130/140 hp is ideal for around 1200kg the engine doesnt work as hard, leaner mixture, u are at slightly lower rpms (volume engine.. fuel mixture per distance.

 What is the current prop?
 WoT nornal load flat water can yo get up or just over 40 mph ?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bounty Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 10:00am
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Originally posted by Bill fisher 5.5 Bill fisher 5.5 wrote:

Thanks guys. I’ll take it down to my local Yamaha dealer and see what they think about the motor position. I do have a hydrofoil on it to help get it up on the plane.
Yeah I can troll at 6 knots and the economy gets better, still about 8.5 - 9 lph.
Was the 200hp too heavy for the boat?

I saw an earlier post of a guy with a 565 Billfisher with a 130 Yamaha on it and it looked like some pretty impressive fuel figures. Same block as my 115 but dohc I beleive?

i would expect some good gains from ditching the hydrofoil on the motor and replacing it with hull mounted trim tabs - they make a world of difference (improvement in holding the nose down in semi-planing conditions) to that hull - we had the 565 initially without and then with trim tabs and found them well worth the expense - and will increase your waterline length a touch

our 200hpdi was same weight as the then 150hp 4strokes that were commonly fitted - and seemed fine - but i dont have any personal experience with smaller engines on that hull.

take care comparing your performance to that of yamahas latest 130hp 4stroke - the 130 is a generation newer than yours and would expect yamaha to have found some improvements in that time
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bill fisher 5.5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 10:11am
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Yeah since my last trip out I have been thinking about putting trim tabs on it. My last trip out was flat calm but every time there was slight bit of wind the boat would tilt to one side. So you saying it would defiantly help out has convinced me it’s the way to go.

The reason I talk about the 130 is in the nearish future I want to put a bigger motor on but not too sure to go with a 130 or 150? Does it come down to weight or hp?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 10:38am
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Rough guide to tabs or foils


These products can reduce porpoising, cavitating and can increase top speed and fuel savings in most applications.

The trim tabs work essentially by creating lift to compensate for bow rise. With the use of trim tabs the boater can compensate for weight distribution, speed, and water conditions to get the boat on plane faster than ever before.

Worth getting all the info you can first,who wants to drill in a cavitation plate or hull.
I had a hydrofoil on a 50hp mariner when I took it in for servicing advice was to take it off,prolong use can cause wear on steering bearings etc was shown how to use trim correctly. Tabs were recommended but older hull so not worth spending$$ on. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bounty Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 12:46pm
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Originally posted by Bill fisher 5.5 Bill fisher 5.5 wrote:

Yeah since my last trip out I have been thinking about putting trim tabs on it. My last trip out was flat calm but every time there was slight bit of wind the boat would tilt to one side. So you saying it would defiantly help out has convinced me it’s the way to go.

The reason I talk about the 130 is in the nearish future I want to put a bigger motor on but not too sure to go with a 130 or 150? Does it come down to weight or hp?

before you spend thousands on re-powering the boat - as Steps rightly suggests - some time fiddling with your existing donk to get it running right may well yield satisfactory results at a fraction of the cost

engine height can be done yourself - or with the assistance of the dealer - either way, its not a 'shop job' - you need to be out on the water with someone driving and the other person looking over the transom at how the anti-ventilation plate is running in relation to the water 

when youve got the motor at height that has the plate just skimming the water surface - but the prop not breaking out in turns or rougher weather too often - you can then move on to noting what revs you are pulling - and changing the prop to suit - again a dealer should be able to assist with testing and providing alternate props to try if warranted
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 1:14pm
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Same thing before going trim tabs..
Rule of bthumb, be it dialing a hot rod engine in or powering propping.. only change one paremeter at a time..
 The propping very important the order is corect..
 1/ Engine height , thu this can change with more extreme prop changes.
2/ get the prop slip factor right at WoT and around 4000 rpm cruise speeds for general use boats.. custom use say lower cruise in more choppy seas the norm, or long periods trolling..or on the back of a barge usualy slightly different.
3/ Then sort pitch

 2 and 3 with experience and good data bases, good accurate rpm/ speed data and if in ball park can be done together.

 Props hard to source from local dealers on loan...
 best bet is find out from sea trail data if yours is in ball park.
 From there will be able to calculate very close to ideal. Then watch Trademe and keep a look out for props reasonasbly priced..
Reasonable . a good SS will be around $150/ to 200
 And alloy $50 to 150.
 Alloy or SS.. alloy flex, they flex on a approx 5.5m hull around 1200kg  when gets up around the 35 / 38 mph , but not enough to significantly effect performance or economy. At trolling speeds nothing upto around 6.5m 1800/2000kg.. above that I have no data.
 So a elcheapo alloy off trade me is the best way to go then look at Actual needs further down the line.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Storm Petrel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 10:22pm
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Test date: June 2020

Boat data.
Hull: Stabicraft 1550 Fisher 2016 hull
Hull non-factory mods: planing strakes and half width keel strip.
Length and construction: 15ft aluminium.
Weight: standard weight hull plus extra battery, rod arch, bait board, chilly bin, anchor and chain, 90L fuel, usual load of fishing gear, 2x 85kg male for the below figures.
Engine: Yamaha F75 1.8L displacement, 2020 model, 20 hours on engine.
Prop diameter and pitch: D15” P13.5” S/S

Environmental.
Salt water/ Ocean test.
Weather conditions and tide: Fair weather, low winds, 8-14deg air temp on the Foveaux straight, moderate currents.
Usage during test: Blue cod fishing, mucking around, visiting beaches.
Hours on water for the test: 8hr

Test data.
Cruise: 30-40kph with steady fuel consumption at 3.3km/L
Best economy cruise: 20-30kph at 3.5km/L
WOT: 60kph at 5850rpm, 2.1km/L (canopy up)
Trip totals: 110km journey for 33L used.

Will find a data logger app and post up an accurate holeshot figures and time to plane.

Hope that helps the cause!



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote neil_cb125t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 2:11pm
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After running my wee boat for 6 months it seems to now be pretty consistent.

Boat: Seaforce 530 Ute
Engine: Suzy DF100A (2.0l)

Economy: average use of 38-40litres 95-100kms traveled. 
call it 0.4l to km or 0.74l per nm

Cruising speed from 36-50kph makes no difference on burn rate WRT distance. 
40kph =14 ish LPH, 50kph = 18 ish LPH, 55kph = 24LPH and gets worse from there. 

On calm day can cruise up at 55-60kph with max speed of around 65-68kph. Once over 5000rpm (and over 50kph) burn rate increases alot.

last trip was with 4 adults in choppy sea meaning slower cruise, more trim F78kery to keep it smoother. Nil change in economy.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote v8rebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2021 at 5:17pm
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Hi all. This is an interesting thread. Good to talk about fuel burn with 91octane at $2 + / L.OuchOuchOuch
PS. Check before you buy, some 4stroke outboards need to run on 95octane OUCH $$$$ ShockedShockedShocked
From my experience experimenting with different props, I suggest 1 sea trial will tell you if a prop is not right for your particular hull, but you need a few trials in different sea, weather, load conditions to declare a prop is "right" for your hull. And a prop that is great on 1 hull can be dismal on another.
For example, my boat 7m XXXOS Glasscraft, v heavy, 225 Honda Gen1. All props S/S.
14 1/4 x 16" Suzuki [2 stroke] prop good but max rpm to hi
14 1/4 x 17" Solas prop great all round [guy i buy from hated it] was my go to prop for 5 years.
15 1/4 x 16" Powertech hopeless max 5100 rpm 
15 1/4 x 15" Powertech 4 blade hopeless max 5150rpm
14 5/8 x 15" Merc Rev4 awesome! Boat feels like a rocket ship on rails running this. My go to bar crossing prop! Slightly higher fuel burn [5%] swinging an extra blade
15 x 15" Merc Enertia. WOW! This ticks all the boxes! Usually skeptical of sales claims, but this is a stunning prop. Low speed manouvering excellent. Trolling 8knt = 8L/hr. Holeshot excellent. Planing from 10-12knt even in the rough. Mid range cruise 3500-4400rpm feels real strong and 24-25knt = 1.3L/nM. Rough water and bar crossings stays hooked up real good, almost as good as the Rev4.
WOT bit low at 5650rpm, but unlikely to find a Enertia 14" pitch 2nd hand. But its so good all round i can live with the max rpm
And the Enertia didn't seem that great on first trial, calm water, when i just checking WOT  rpm, and "feel", it comes into its own in the rough, so i think it takes a few trial runs.
So anyone running an Enertia on another brand of V6 outboard [or inboard]? Be interested to hear your thoughts.
The Rev4 and Enertia are good too as they have the square hub bushing, suggest you buy the Solas [rubber] one not the foolish Merc hard plastic one designed to shatter on impact, 5min to change, no visit to prop shop required.
Tight lines!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2021 at 7:11pm
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PS. Check before you buy, some 4stroke outboards need to run on 95octane OUCH $$$$ ShockedShockedShocked

 Read you manuals 1st..
USA measures octane different than most of the rest of the world... so careful if it is a American manual
 There are 3 basic measurements for octane.. one high one is low and the other and ave of the 2.
American 95 is very close to our 91.
 Also you will find running a engine that requires higher octane $ per mile , will work out about the same than the lower octane fuel. Run a high octane engine on low octane  thinking will be cheaper, you will end up with long term issues and the $ per mile will be higher...

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8rebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2021 at 10:44am
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Yeah, USA & Canada now use AKI [anti knock index] octane ratings, which are a lower number than the RON octane ratings in Australasia

But when you read the manual for 4.2L V6 4stroke Yamaha, for example, for NZ, it tells you 225hp and 250hp min RON octane 90, but the 300hp is min RON octane 94. So that means run your 300hp 4.2L V6 Yamaha on 95 octane, if you don't want to void your warranty.
Pays to ask these questions before you buy, was the point i was getting at.

I guess thats why marinas always have 95 octane not 91 octane petrol to avoid damage to motors that need 95 octane not 91 octane

But getting back onto the subject, has anyone tried the Enertia prop on another brand of outboard or inboard? Be interested to here your results

Tight lines!


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2021 at 12:15pm
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I dont hit in miss method but rather
 1/ Sort engine height.. may have to be changed for different conditions/ applications later
2/ Sort out the correct slip numbers for WoT , normal load for that size hull Sorting slip numbers is critical to do before moving on. If change engine heigh this has to be redone/ tweaked
3/Then match the pitch into the mid way of the WoT specs for that engine.
Reasons for midway is under normal load then have alight load , you go towards the max spec and visa versa for heavy load/ towing  within reason.

4/ From there one selects the amount of cupping  and/ or rake to fine tune for different uses and applications. And also engine height can be correct in one set conditions and not another, regardless of prop make type etc.
 And then throw in different gear box ratios..

Also the amount of power to hull weight (we are only talking planing hulls that actually plain..)  .. If min power , max, over powered... all effect how a given hull will react in different seas and applications.

Then we throw in 3 and 4 blade and the whole thing totally changes again... even engine height if on the cuspe between holes.

So to pick out a particular prop brand/ type/ model. then ask thoughts on it is much of a moot point given so many variables between even identical rigs... weight gear /crew/ east coast/ west coast

Do you have the data numbers , in particular the slip numbers for each of the comparisons above.?.. That would be very interesting and would show up a lot of info as to what is happening.

 Yes used Enertia, 4 blade 3 blade high rake, huge blade areas, big cupping slight cupping... alsorts brands models.. And now have quite a collection  hanging from my shed rafters.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2021 at 1:35pm
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:


American 95 is very close to our 91.


You've got that backwards... American 91 is premium fuel and better than our 95; their cheap fuel is "87" and equivalent to 91 here.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2021 at 8:57am
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Thanks for the correction Roz.
Later on in the days , sorting bench a sink/tap off couple IBC tanks plumbing was wondering if got it the right way round...
Usually only check internet/ emails etc once a day over morning coffee.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote REIVER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2021 at 3:45pm
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Originally posted by v8rebel v8rebel wrote:

Yeah, USA & Canada now use AKI [anti knock index] octane ratings, which are a lower number than the RON octane ratings in Australasia

But when you read the manual for 4.2L V6 4stroke Yamaha, for example, for NZ, it tells you 225hp and 250hp min RON octane 90, but the 300hp is min RON octane 94. So that means run your 300hp 4.2L V6 Yamaha on 95 octane, if you don't want to void your warranty.
Pays to ask these questions before you buy, was the point i was getting at.

I guess thats why marinas always have 95 octane not 91 octane petrol to avoid damage to motors that need 95 octane not 91 octane

But getting back onto the subject, has anyone tried the Enertia prop on another brand of outboard or inboard? Be interested to here your results

Tight lines!



I have just fitted an enertia prop to my new Suzuki 175. Was getting 1.5 km/l with the supplied Suzuki prop, will keep you posted. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8rebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2021 at 8:06pm
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Sweet, what pitch Enertia did you go for? Is it the original Enertia or the Eco Enertia [which is bigger diameter] for multi engine offshore hulls
Be interested to here your results

Tight lines!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8rebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 11:45am
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Hi Reiver
 How did you go with the Enertia prop?
 What diameter & pitch is it?

 Tight lines
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 11:01am
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His last log in visit wa 13 march.. maybe he , like others have mentioned in replying to posts is/ has been having trouble logging back in..Angry
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote REIVER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2021 at 6:27pm
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hi V8, back at last!


Just the plain Enertia prop. 17" pitch, the same as th eSuzuki but I dont think it has quite the diameter. Lots of rake on it so still got a good surface area. Getting about 1.7 km/l which I am pretty happy with, slightly beter than my 200 Opti. Way better acceleration and holds on the plane at low speeds a lot better. Also lots of lift, the boat rides way better. Will keep my Suzuki prop for a spare, the Enertia is staying on the motor for sure. 
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