Motiti closure petition

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    Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 1:43pm
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https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/232500-petition-launched-to-prevent-fishing-ban.html

Read through please &  sign.
There's a link to the petition at the bottom.

This crazy decision has the potential to spread widely around NZ's coast.
Cheers.  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 2:12pm
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Done. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote MATTOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 5:19pm
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Uncle,

Are we sure this is the right thing to do.
I assume you've spent the time reviewing what it means and your still sure there approach is wrong.

Is the petition just against it or proposing alternates.

Kindly.
M
Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Keith C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 5:40pm
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Originally posted by MATTOO MATTOO wrote:

Uncle,

Are we sure this is the right thing to do.
I assume you've spent the time reviewing what it means and your still sure there approach is wrong.

Is the petition just against it or proposing alternates.

Kindly.
M

Well surely the approach to the planned legislation must be wrong if we are going to have more than one body setting the rules for our sea fishing. It was within an MPI mandate so why should it be moved now.
Who will enforce rules, MPI or another body e.g. council? Which set of rules is valid - the other body or MPI? I can think of many other questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Uncle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 5:49pm
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Yes Matt, I have no doubts.
For these people, Motiti is just the beginning. 

Proper consultation with ALL involved would go a long way toward working a consensus.

I would imagine a lot of Kiwi fishos will be sitting back thinking  it's not happening in their back yard so no worries.
BUT, the move is on.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 6:07pm
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Bit of controversy there "Uncle"
Yes the courts gave rights to regional councils but according to "seafood nz" it has been over turned and MPI are the governing body.



Both come out same day,which is correct??
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 8:23pm
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A few points to clarify;
1. The Court did rule councils can impose envirnmental controls out to 12 miles under the RMA. MPI contested that any seabed should be covered by the fishereis act. Forest and Bird and Motiti Rohe Mona Trust contested that there was indigenous flora and fauna on these reefs that needed to be protected. The court believed them
2. The court also instructed a 10 year closure for 1 km raidus around Okaparu, Brewis shoal, and astrolabe, another closure for 1 km radius around schooner rock, and another 1km radius around Plate island, the tokerau shoals, and motunau patch.
3. The council no needs to propose management measures (against their will, they get no funds to cover costs for management), that must be agreed by the parties to the proceedings.
4. This rule is a blunt instrument can only be used as an all or nothing tool for protecting indigenous flora and fauna, cannot be used for fishing controls. So councils can only close areas, they cannot use this to restrict fishing methods, i.e for banning bulk harvesting as some would like to think.

We are told that the ruling cannot be overturned. But the Petition is still worth a crack, we won't get what we don't ask for.


www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 8:36pm
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"We are told that the ruling cannot be overturned. But the Petition is still worth a crack, we won't get what we don't ask for."
I am not trying to throw a wet blanket over those who want to challenge the decision . It seems like a slippery slope with that one.
But the Q has to be asked (as Mattoo is doing), as to how effective such a petition may be. Whether this is the right approach. 
Who said the ruling cannot be overturned?
The court process is a very regimented one and the higher up the ladder you go, the narrower the window of opportunity to overturn what has already been debated.
If it is a legal slam dunk, another approach may be a better option (election coming up). If there is a clear legal avenue to follow it may be helpful to spell out what it is.
Regards
Alan 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 8:41pm
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https://www.seafood.co.nz/media-releases/article/item/appeal-court-confirms-regional-councils-may-not-override-fisheries-management/

link comes blank

APPEAL COURT CONFIRMS REGIONAL COUNCILS MAY NOT OVERRIDE FISHERIES MANAGEMENT

Monday 4 November 2019

In an Appeal Court judgment issued today, it was determined that regional councils are precluded from undertaking actions for Fisheries Act purposes.

Such purposes include conserving, using, enhancing, developing or allocating fisheries resources, and also any actions to avoid, remedy or mitigate the effects of fishing on the wider aquatic environment.

Fisheries Inshore New Zealand chief executive, Dr Jeremy Helson, said: “We are pleased the Court has confirmed that fisheries management remains the concern of the Fisheries Act.

“However, regional councils have some jurisdiction in managing marine activities for other purposes. When exercising such functions, the Court has provided some useful guidance that confirms Councils’ management capacity is subject to various constraints and that interventions must be carefully considered on a case-by-case basis,” said Helson.   

What this means is that interested parties must now be involved whenever a regional council attempts to make a decision that affects fishing.

“It is not ideal, but we are grateful that the Appeal Court recognised that regional councils are constrained in the extent to which they can restrict commercial, recreational and customary fishing.

“While, overall, this decision did not go as far as we would have liked in providing clarity, it confirms that regional councils are restricted in the extent to which they can manage fishing in the coastal marine environment – including when exercising their functions ‘to maintain indigenous biodiversity’,” said Helson.

Industry parties are still examining the detail of the Court’s decision and it is too early to comment on whether an appeal would be appropriate.

 

ENDS

 

Note: This Appeal was brought by Ministry for Primary Industries, Fisheries Inshore New Zealand, The New Zealand Rock Lobster Industry Council and Paua Industry Council.

 

The following spokespeople are available for comment:
Dr Jeremy Helson

Chief executive Fisheries Inshore New Zealand

021 272 8727

 

Mark Edwards

Chief executive Rock Lobster Industry Council

022 430 4347

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 8:55pm
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

"We are told that the ruling cannot be overturned. But the Petition is still worth a crack, we won't get what we don't ask for."
I am not trying to throw a wet blanket over those who want to challenge the decision . It seems like a slippery slope with that one.
But the Q has to be asked (as Mattoo is doing), as to how effective such a petition may be. Whether this is the right approach. 
Who said the ruling cannot be overturned?
The court process is a very regimented one and the higher up the ladder you go, the narrower the window of opportunity to overturn what has already been debated.
If it is a legal slam dunk, another approach may be a better option (election coming up). If there is a clear legal avenue to follow it may be helpful to spell out what it is.
Regards
Alan

Our Lawyers acting for NZSFC and LegaSea have provided the advice that this ruling is full and final. Can only be appealed on points of law by parties to the original case. i.e New parties cannot show up and contest the ruling.

There is no slippery slope here in terms of trying other things like petitions etc. You have to remember that F&B and the MRMT have played a 5% game, they had a low percentage of winning and they pulled it off. It's quite possible that somebody playing a 5% game to overthrow maybe successful. But options seem very very limited, so play the petition and see where it gets us. 

I doubt that the ruling allowing council to manage the 12 mile zone under the RMA will change, but perhaps this currently closed area can be reduced.

The bone of contention here is that a large number of people agree that closing a smaller area would be a good thing. But the issue is that it's a very large area and the process has been very lacking in consultation.


www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MATTOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 9:07pm
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I'm going to take my time on this.

I'm off fishing.
When I get back I'll take the time to read and understand this.

Thanks to all for posting points of view and info.
Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 10:09pm
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"There is no slippery slope here in terms of trying other things like petitions etc."
My response is misconstrued - too much brevity of words. I mean the original decision is a slippery slope -as to where it takes us.
Just querying the likelyhood of a petition succeeding in a legal arena. 

"Our Lawyers acting for NZSFC and LegaSea have provided the advice that this ruling is full and final. Can only be appealed on points of law by parties to the original case. i.e New parties cannot show up and contest the ruling."

That is the norm - the field to overturn a legal decision gets narrower the further up the legal ladder you climb. So why would we assume a petition would have weight - other than politically. It would seem to me a Judicial review would be the only avenue open. ie asking whether the courts up to this point have screwed up.
Regards
Alan


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2020 at 10:33pm
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As I see it, I can't fight the ruling in court myself, but I can add my signature to the petition. Okay, its only a drop in a very big bucket - but at least when I'm asked if I did something about it I can say I did as much as I practically could.
 
What harm can come of trying to get weight behind the petition? - even if it may be politically motivated - but in ''Election year'' this has the very real ability to confirm where I place my vote!
 
Signed...
Proud supporter of Ronald McDonald House & the team at Legasea

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2020 at 7:17am
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OK - should have read petition first. Asking for a law change. Political rather than legal process. 
Signed.

Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2020 at 8:48am
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

"There is no slippery slope here in terms of trying other things like petitions etc."
My response is misconstrued - too much brevity of words. I mean the original decision is a slippery slope -as to where it takes us.
Just querying the likelyhood of a petition succeeding in a legal arena. 

"Our Lawyers acting for NZSFC and LegaSea have provided the advice that this ruling is full and final. Can only be appealed on points of law by parties to the original case. i.e New parties cannot show up and contest the ruling."

That is the norm - the field to overturn a legal decision gets narrower the further up the legal ladder you climb. So why would we assume a petition would have weight - other than politically. It would seem to me a Judicial review would be the only avenue open. ie asking whether the courts up to this point have screwed up.
Regards
Alan
"

All good, the petition is really a last resort, there's not much else that can be done, for the sake of adding a signature to something that may or may not be successful, it's worth a crack IMHO. It's a bit like trolling for Gamefish.
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
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