New catch limits for 32 fish stocks

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 8:55pm
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Originally posted by Tagit Tagit wrote:

Originally posted by Tzer Tzer wrote:

Vance,  John. H comment didn't say that he was referring to TAR1 as to me he was  commenting as to the overall assessment of Tarakihi stocks.  Tarakihi is the main commercial stock fished on our coast and if things are as bad as the data says then surely we would  be seeing some sort of decline by recreational yet as I mentioned above what I see each time we're out  doesn't suggest that  Tarakihi are in trouble from a recreational view point.
 
 
Tzer - You can't use your own catches as representative of rec catches. You are a well equipped professional fisherman. Your competence level will be miles above the average rec guys. 

Like other charter operators here in Auckland I can go out and usually catch as many Snapper as I need. Most days here, most of the charter fleet will come back with as many fish as their clients want. Not always, but most days. Even right through Winter there have been far more trips with limit bags than trips that were hard.

On the other hand I talk most seasons at some point with the guys doing the ramp inspections here. If I say the fishery is fine, they look at me and suggest I try talking to all the rec guys they meet coming in with next to no fish. So basically the 'real' rec view here is that our Snapper fishery is very poor. 
If you are a skilled professional however there are plenty of fish. Hence the comms saying that there are plenty because they know the fishery so well, but the real test is how those average rec anglers find things and for them it has massively deteriorated and all they get are undersized fish.


Sorry to say I disagree with you Dave, the rec guys down here do just as well as we do, many fish the same spots each time they're out as these spots tend to fish day in day out.
I would suggest that social media would also disagree, just look at the many pages associated with fishing and you will find plenty of anecdotal evidence that ordinary guys doing very well.
With all the advances in technology, fishing gear, new fishing methods, fishing show, fishing seminars etc etc perhaps some rec guys need to have a look at themselves first and not look to blame commercial fishing activities just because they cant catch a feed.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishy11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 9:43pm
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"the rec guys down here do just as well as we do"
 

"down here" exactlyWacko obviously the various points made previously by others are going straight over your head though - different areas, yet you assume it is like that elsewhere.




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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 10:10pm
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Originally posted by Fishy11 Fishy11 wrote:

"the rec guys down here do just as well as we do"
 
"down here" exactlyWacko obviously the various points made previously by others are going straight over your head though - different areas, yet you assume it is like that elsewhere.



Much like those who have commented that just because TAR1 rec fishers may find catching Tarakihi difficult believe it must also be the same in TAR2
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishy11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 10:39pm
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ErmmOh ok, where was it that i stated or even implied that was the case?
So others comment saying there has been an general/ overall reduction in stocks based on data. But because, according to you, things are fine in 'your' area means this is untrue. Heard of averages? or the term 'as a whole'?

Originally posted by Tzer Tzer wrote:

With all the advances in technology, fishing gear, new fishing methods, fishing show, fishing seminars etc etc perhaps some rec guys need to have a look at themselves first and not look to blame commercial fishing activities just because they cant catch a feed.
 


Really?
So anyone who disagrees with you is just salty that they can't catch are feed due to being sh*t fisherman... righto
So when do we see you in an ad for seafood nz?WinkLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 9:07am
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Tzer wrote:
With all the advances in technology, fishing gear, new fishing methods, fishing show, fishing seminars etc etc perhaps some rec guys need to have a look at themselves first and not look to blame commercial fishing activities just because they cant catch a feed.

Fishy11 View Drop Down 
Really?
So anyone who disagrees with you is just .... that they can't catch are feed due to being sh*t fisherman... righto
So when do we see you in an ad for seafood nz?WinkLOL

For Auckland.. hell yeah.
If a novice person goes deer hunting, and expect a deer bor pig 1st time out or even several times, they are dreaming.. its the experience  skills and their historical data keeping as where , when they are at a give time of yr and hr..
 Charters go out and with a good skipper well behaved clients, wil come home with a good feed.. again experience skill and data base.
 The general redc guy.. " gee sunny day lets go for a fish..hook up the boat and go.." no pre plan for time of yr tides water temps whatever..and expect to catch a fish
 YEAH RIGHT.

Fisheries are in a condition several 100% better than the 70s 80s.. even experienced ppl couldnt catch a fish.. lot of the little family commercial guys where going under..
 12 mile economic limit , off shore factory ships lines up nose to tail sending their trailers in at night..
 International law changes to allow 200 mile limit and quota where introduced..

Bottom line thu.. cant blame commercial guys.. no mater what the business..directors are legally obliged , world wide, to maximise returns to shareholder within the parameters of LAW and REGUATIONS 

 If a resource is raped, mis managed it is because of lack of law and/ or very bad law.

If they are bad or no laws, we need to blame the law makers who we elect.

 I learnt to fish off the old man in 50s and 60s..including keeping records.. brought my 1st boat in early 70s, sold it couple yrs later.. no fish.. didnt even pick up a rod till about 8 yrs back.
Brought another boat, and out regularly.. keep records..from day 1 NEVER failed to bring home a feed for all 3 families.
 yes fishing gets hard..
 last week headed out early than data said should.. 9:30 am.. did sa bit of prospecting see if fish coming in early.. nothing.. 
 I think if a ave rec fisher would go home..no plan further than that..
 Tide right, drop over a 20m reef, and all on low 40s mid 50s snappes , couple nice gurnard.. bite time stopped.
 Cost of day..about 3x $50 each.. fuel/ oil bait / burely, traces etc.
Once filleted down weighed out, each person took home around $130 @$40/ kg of fresh fish.

Skilled , experienced, be it hunting deer/ pig/ duck shooting, building a hot rod, or planting out a veggie garden.. 
Dont have that expect to fail... and fishing is no dam different.

 Its easy to blame others and put blame where not deserved

 In saying that.. snapper KY are easy.. but other  50s/ 60s common fish , huge boil ups are not there.. kings improving , gurnard, trev, JD, even piper / bait fish schools,  crays , scallops , muscles, pipis , cockles, just to name a few   are NOT there...and in some cases so rare may as well say extinct..



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishy11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 1:42pm
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Steps-  I was replying in regards to comments made by Tzer about the Tarakihi stocks. Not once in your reply did you even mention Tarakihi but hey, if you want to compare the current day to maybe one of the worst times in history for the NZ fishery - where we had snapper being dumped in landfills go ahead. Doesn't really get us anywhere though, and just because it's maybe better than that now doesn't mean things are all fine and dandy.

I don't fish up Auckland ways that often(unless we are counting western side of Coro/Thames) so can't make much of a judgement there. I do however remember Tarakihi being pretty darn plentiful 10-15 years ago out from Tauranga and Whangamata right up to the top of the eastern side of Coromandel. Now not so much though.

The cray fishery in the same area is pretty well screwed too, heck you probably have more chance of running over a line on one of the many commercial pots than getting crays out from TGA/Whangamata a lot of the timeLOL 

Don't get me wrong, i hear you on the whole they are acting(generallyWink) within the laws/regulations set out by MPI or whatever. A bit b.s though when large portions of the commercial sector spend big dollars to harp on about sustainable fishing any chance they get. Legal and sustainable aren't mutually exclusive to one another though.



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 3:28pm
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Originally posted by Tzer Tzer wrote:

Sorry to say I disagree with you Dave, the rec guys down here do just as well as we do, many fish the same spots each time they're out as these spots tend to fish day in day out.
I would suggest that social media would also disagree, just look at the many pages associated with fishing and you will find plenty of anecdotal evidence that ordinary guys doing very well.
With all the advances in technology, fishing gear, new fishing methods, fishing show, fishing seminars etc etc perhaps some rec guys need to have a look at themselves first and not look to blame commercial fishing activities just because they cant catch a feed.
I guess we live in different worlds a bit Craig. I used to fish Gissy occasionally with mates down there and I would say the that the average rec guy down there is bit more passionate about their fishing than the average Auckland rec 'guy' who is often mum, dad and a couple of kids out for a not so regular fish. Pretty much city vs rural differences. To catch fish here you need to get lucky or know your way around pretty well. There are obviously some pretty switched on rec anglers who quite often do as well as the charter guys and you see these on social media. You don't tend to see the other 1000's that didn't do so well. 
The strange thing about our Snapper fishery here in Auckland is that it is mostly really good for those that know how. On the flip side, those that don't know how can dump many kg's of bait etc into sub 30cm Snapper all day and come home with 1 or 2 barely legal ones. That is what people are complaining about. The traditional closer in fishery where the Snapper were once abundantly available is now mostly a place for the skilled fishers rather than the bulk of Auckland who traditionally fished there from the very first settlers arrived.

What I think we don't need (in Auckland anyway) is the whole rec fishing fleet getting skilled up to best target the deminished number of bigger fish because that would often lead to mass congestion and fights over fishing spots etc, plus probably an unsustainable take on a depleted breeding resource. It's funny enough watching even the small charter fleet fight over fishing spots at certain times. What we need is for the fishery to return to what it could be so that the 'unskilled' guys can still get a couple of reasonable fish each when they go out without having to become 'serious fishermen'. Why shouldn't a family be able to shoot out for a day in their 5m boat and catch some fish for dinner. If the stocks here were at the right levels it would be a no brainer, and we would have more kids asking dad to go fishing instead of sitting bored in the boat cabin asking when they can go back home to their playstation etc.

One thing that is very obvious here is the massive depletion on things like Gurnard, John Dory, & Tarakihi. It is heartbreaking to be behind a trawler who has just hauled and see the acres of dead juvenile fish floating on the surface. Trawling really has no place in this fishery unless they can sort out the damage it does. 

I think the Kahawai and Kingfish populations are not that horrible here even though still heavily depleted. Kingfish may even be improving a little but that could also be a water temp thing. Used to be 70s/80s that I would head out and get more Gurnard and at certain times, Tarakihi than Snapper. These days Gurnard are a welcome surprise but usually small, and a Tarakihi is a one in many 1000's catch. I guess we don't get much spillover from the badly depleted BOP stocks anymore. Maybe you could send a few Gissy models our way. Love Tarakihi.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 5:14pm
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Have a look at the map from niwa on 15/4/2012  shows 1859 vessels fishing(reccs)in virtually one area.It must have an effect if each vessel had say 2 anglers and caught 3 fish (not necessary snapper)_11,154 removed potentially in one day.



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 5:57pm
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Do some simple estimates and it falls into perspective a little. Say there were 250 fishable days in a year after bad weather etc. Say there was an average of 1000 boats out (probably high as an average including week days and winter etc) each day. Say each boat had 3 anglers and they each caught 3 Snapper at an average weight of 1kg (~ 36cm). That is 2250 tonnes over 750,000 angler days. Pretty much exactly what the report estimates the HAGU Snapper catch at. Seems to make some sense. Biggest problem is that for each person that catches 7 Snapper, at least one other person catches nothing. Other wise the numbers would be higher.
I guess one of the big points is that we are talking about something possibly approaching a million days of personal recreation invested in Hauraki Gulf fishing. That is a huge commitment of effort showing how incredibly important this fishery is to the people who live here.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 8:49pm
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I fished off Gissy end of last summer - charter boat. Tzer was loading up for a charter at same time.  Crap day weather wise - charter had been postponed twice. Apart from being bounced from one side of the boat to other, we caught more terries than I have seen before. We had more than enough for the 6-8 of us fishing (some were puking). So I do think Tzers comments are correct. I was waiting for the time we pulled pick and headed home. But the skipper was obviously wanting to give every one a decent day's fishing. On  average we probably had close to our limit (way more than I would normally take). All terries from memory, maybe the odd snapp.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 9:22pm
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The obvious thing is Gisborne is still a good Terakihi fishery whereas others are not. But Gizzie has depleted stocks of other catches too, Crayfish for example....

They cherry pick those days too as examples, very rare days those.  

pjc yes the recs have an effect BUT we do not affect the 90% of fish landed by comms that a rec hook goes nowhere near. Think Hoki, Orange Roughy, Southern Blue Whiting etc, etc surely there is enough money for them to earn there.

I don't how many times we have had threads like this, don't ever doubt your need or right to take fish or simply enjoy the sport. Take away comms from our species we like to target the seas will be bursting with life again within 10 years and we just carry on as we are, funny they seem to want to try everything but the bloody obvious. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 9:35pm
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

The obvious thing is Gisborne is still a good Terakihi fishery whereas others are not. But Gizzie has depleted stocks of other catches too, Crayfish for example.... Dont know where you get the notion our crayfishery is depleted. We have a concession fishery by where the commercial take 52mm during the months of June - August and are then out of the water until mid Januray when they are allowed to fish again and most are only in the water for a matter of a few weeks to complete their quotas. Most importantly they are not in the water during the summer holiday season. With maybe a few exceptions I dont know of many that couldn't get their allowable 6 crays per day. Some may not like the concession but I commercially crayfished through the good times back in the mid 70's right up until the fishery collapsed and I can tell you we have a good fishery now.

They cherry pick those days too as examples, very rare days those. Cherry pick our days, not quite sure what you mean here but I can assure you our recreational guys look to get out as much as they can even to the point that they fish some **** days. There wouldn't be many that dont catch a good feed of tarakihi or other species for that matter.

pjc yes the recs have an effect BUT we do not affect the 90% of fish landed by comms that a rec hook goes nowhere near. Think Hoki, Orange Roughy, Southern Blue Whiting etc, etc surely there is enough money for them to earn there.

I don't how many times we have had threads like this, don't ever doubt your need or right to take fish or simply enjoy the sport. Take away comms from our species we like to target the seas will be bursting with life again within 10 years and we just carry on as we are, funny they seem to want to try everything but the bloody obvious. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 9:37pm
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

I fished off Gissy end of last summer - charter boat. Tzer was loading up for a charter at same time.  Crap day weather wise - charter had been postponed twice. Apart from being bounced from one side of the boat to other, we caught more terries than I have seen before. We had more than enough for the 6-8 of us fishing (some were puking). So I do think Tzers comments are correct. I was waiting for the time we pulled pick and headed home. But the skipper was obviously wanting to give every one a decent day's fishing. On  average we probably had close to our limit (way more than I would normally take). All terries from memory, maybe the odd snapp.
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Perhaps you should come fishing with us next tiime
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2018 at 6:06am
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Tzer - I nearly called out to you (you were busy)- never met you - other than on this forum. I didn't organise the charter - but have whanau up there. Maybe we can catch up some time. Went out with 'Scruffy?'. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2018 at 7:46am
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Cool news on the Hoki eh. Pat the comms on the back.
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PJC, I could well be included in the boat count on the two days shown in the presentation. Was I fishing? Would have to check the log on the boat, but on average I will be fishing only 1 out of 3 days I am out in the gulf and then only for a couple of hours to catch enough to feed 2 of us on board for a couple of feeds.

It is complete misrepresentation to include me and a lot of other "boaties who fish occassionally" in these aerial surveys yet they have no way of excluding us. There will be rods in my rod holders until I get back to the marina, so how can they tell? I simply don't trust the results for that reason.
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It now appears hoki are dissapearing??

The hoki fishery is in trouble. LegaSea would make a bold call and say its because they have been fished down to levels of depletion, just like tarakihi and crayfish in CRA2. Other people say the hoki aren't turning up (from where?) or it maybe global warming. http://ow.ly/9aw230lZepU

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2018 at 8:33pm
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Let's see if a 22% cut is enough. Based on prior examples they have probably cut less than they need to and there will be more cuts required before the fishery can recover. Can't blame rec fishing for this one so let's blame climate change. Can't be anything to do with all the dodgy fishing practices that are getting exposed.
What I don't get is how can the CPUE last year not have at least given some indicators that the fishery was declining and needed quota cuts? Do you really have to wait until you literally can't catch the fish to say that you need to do something? Trouble with CPUE reports are they are the fox guarding the hen house.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2018 at 8:36pm
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

Tzer - I nearly called out to you (you were busy)- never met you - other than on this forum. I didn't organise the charter - but have whanau up there. Maybe we can catch up some time. Went out with 'Scruffy?'. 
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Alan


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