DIY Flasher Rig

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    Posted: 12 Feb 2016 at 4:53pm
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Hey guys, 

I was looking at making some flasher rigs and wondering if anyone knows what knot the commercial flasher rigs use to joint the "branch" to mainline. For a standard ledger rig I just use dropper loops but I want to snell the hooks so need to use a single line.

thanks in advance
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2016 at 6:07pm
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I have no idea! But you may be able to unravel one. They way I see it is the rigs use maybe a 60lb mainline so there's a bit of room for error.
Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Blindspot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2016 at 9:49pm
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I have no idea what its called but know how to tie it.

lay branch along mainline, make a loop near bottom of branch, thread hook and mainline through loop twice, tighten...  the top is where the branch comes out of the resulting knot and faces upwards.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Blindspot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2016 at 9:53pm
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alternatively you can do this and not cut the mainline as they have... the thin line would be your branch. again the swivel should end up on the end that they have cut.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 12:36pm
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I have experimented and tested the above...from dismantling several commercial rigs... both using uni as above and whipping knot.
They are ok intially but with a little use the fail.
Reason is at the 1/2 hitch (or using a 8 knot) in the backbone.
If one puts a line thru a loop, it doesn't take much for the loop or the line thru it to cut thru.
Hence why my initial bench tests proved good, but field tests eventually failed... confirmed on the bench later.
The piont of my excersse it to get away from the drooper loop because
1/it can be Columbersome to tie (sorted that)...a
2/often the loop will not go thru the hook eye (eliminated this)
3/ I have a 'bad' feeling that cutting the bottom off aloop at the back back bone would not be good (testing showed this not to be the case)
4/its difficult to get a good knot that will not 'bounce ' open when flasher is incorporated directly under the knot.  ( sorted that)

So peg out short nails sticking up about an 1 inch off a bench.
loop the line around once with 1 side doubled.
twist the doubled side lines about 6 times and hold the middle of the twist open.
Now lift the single line around the top  nail off, and poke thru the middle of the loops then hook back over the nail.
lift the ends either end of the loop and pull up tight

experiment with the distance between nails to give the lengths that u want.

Cut the bottom loop close to the back bone knot

Cut your flashing material of choice and lay on the table.
take the end of the hook line.. pass the right way thru the hook eye (depends on type hook used).   create a loop down the shaft of the hook.. with a workable tag
hold the loop just below the hook eye, pick up the flasher and lay against the loop and hook.
take the tag, put a 1/2 hitch around the flasher, the hook and the loop and pull up gently tight.
Now wrap the tag down the hook/ flasher/ loop at least 6 times.. more if have enhough tag.
Pass the tag thru the loop, then pull the line above the hook up, pulling the tag under the loops, but keep the tag end straight as the loop sides up towards the loops.
pull firm.
put the hook thru the sissors handle grab the line above the hook and finish pulling up tight.. you will feel the whipping knot (thats all it is) click into place.

When locating the side branches and whipping on the hooks, have it so the hooks do not touch each other.

The dropper loops take about  10 seconds
the hook knots about 20 seconds
The rest is cutting flasher material and cutting loops, picking up flasher hooks etc


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 2:15pm
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

I have experimented and tested the above...from dismantling several commercial rigs... both using uni as above and whipping knot.
They are ok intially but with a little use the ...


X2 Steps comments - I went round and he kindly took me thru this as above - works well and cheaper and better than pre made rigs that I have found to fail at times as well.
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 7:34pm
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I use reinforced dropper loops and have not had one fail, even with legal kingfish on the end.  http://www.tytaz.com/tytazproknotmaker.htm  I do use a tytaz as it's easy, but the nail method on a bench that Steps describes is a cheap alternative.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 8:52pm
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Originally posted by Kevin.S Kevin.S wrote:

I use reinforced dropper loops and have not had one fail, even with legal kingfish on the end.  http://www.tytaz.com/tytazproknotmaker.htm  I do use a tytaz as it's easy, but the nail method on a bench that Steps describes is a cheap alternative.
Had a look at website Kevin - neat and good stuff. Seems like a good idea if hands are not that good or mobility poor.
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 8:44am
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I have seen those at the last couple boat shows.
Yep the dropper is basically the same as using 3 nails...
What the "re enforced" part is over the std dropper I dont see.
using a tube to twist would be a good idea for those with lack of hand mobility... maybe.
And the machine gives a std dropper length as the pins are fixed.
From the video, it may not give enough length when the loop is cut to whip a hook on with or without flasher. (????)
And if using normal heavy leader line one could have issues on many hooks looping them thru the hook eye.

The video did remind me I left a little out of my description above.
Have a 4th nail out to one side...put a 1/2 hitch loop in the end of the tag .. this holds that end ... the other end....maybe the same.
I have  about a 3/8" hole drilled tru my bench...a galv construction bolt, going from the head end. Head, washer, spring, washer, spool, washer, thru the bench, washer and couple nuts to lock together.  I take the line off and hold by tensioning up. I also use for loading line onto reels under tension which was what I originally did it for.
 On the front edge of the bench I have 2 banks end to end of rubber rod holders.
These are used to hold the rod as a 2nd or 3rd hand for tying FG knots and bimmini knots on the main line. And after rods have been washed, they are left to dry over night before spray with marine crc or similar, then wiped down clean oiled and then put away on the main rod rack on the wall.

If one thinks about things its not hard to set up simple stuff like this... just "working hard at being lazy"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Blindspot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 9:51am
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I have never had the above self tied knot on a ledger rig fail except where I have wanted it to... ie large shark, stingray, in these cases I grab the sinker and give a snappy tug to part ways.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 2:44pm
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

I have seen those at the last couple boat shows.
Yep the dropper is basically the same as using 3 nails...
What the "re enforced" part is over the std dropper I dont see.

Strength, the reinforced dropper is 95% strength and a standard dropper isn't. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jtm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 8:37am
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Wow, thanks guys! Great information especially Steps thanks for the detailed instruction. I'm going to give it a go.  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 5:56pm
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Originally posted by Kevin.S Kevin.S wrote:

Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

I have seen those at the last couple boat shows.
Yep the dropper is basically the same as using 3 nails...
What the "re enforced" part is over the std dropper I dont see.

Strength, the reinforced dropper is 95% strength and a standard dropper isn't. 


Im not asking the strength , Im asking what is the difference between tying a std dropper and  "reinforced dropper"
Going on the video I cant see any difference between uding the machine and using the 3 nails , or for that matter just making a loop, twist and pass thru the twist on a bench.

Im maybe Im missing something....or looking for where a knot, as in the improved albright, and  improved clinch, double back.. much the same way as a bimini does

As to the claim of 95%.. be it loop to main line or the main line strength, I cant wear that one at all simply because of the nature of the knot.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 6:29pm
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You need to go back and watch the video again, there is an extra length of line in the knot -that's the reinforcement part, and why it is so strong.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2016 at 9:34am
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Ahh yep I se what u are saying.
So using the nail method I posted above.
One can make a loop.. doesnt need to be joined to the main line being used.
hang it over the 2 nails  across the base of the triangle with a weight on it to keep a little tension
OR simply tie a length between the 2 base nails.
Then precede as above....
Once the knot has been pulled up, trim the tag ends off the extra piece.
Yes I can now see the potential of increasing the strength of the knot with the extra bit inserted sort as a spacer/ buffer between where a std dropper  layers would stress against themselves.
But .and subject to actual bench testing... only between stress top and bottom of the back bone.. either side of the knot... not between the knot and the hook.

even so a 95% strength ....thats certainly a historical margin for any knot regardless of material, and espec so outside of using braid

But its made me curious...And taking it further.. inserting a extra 'buffer' strand into other knots also

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2016 at 10:10am
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I haven't tested this knot, but I presume they must have to claim those figures.  There are knots that work that well, I've had a uni knot test at 100% -tied in 60lb mono the line broke at 71lb and the knot was still holding.

No problem with how you suggest with the extra length between the nails.  Not sure why he ties it in a loop at all, I just drop it into the jaws on the tytaz.  Just be careful which bits you trim off after finishing the knot, it's very easy to trim the mainline instead of the extra piece.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2016 at 3:57pm
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I haven't tested this knot, but I presume they must have to claim those figures.  There are knots that work that well, I've had a uni knot test at 100% -tied in 60lb mono the line broke at 71lb and the knot was still holding.

Hmmm...
When testing.. or rather observing very close where a knot gives way and why on the bed of my machine lathe...I first test the actual strength of the line.
Then use the ACTUAL strength and NOT the advertised strength.
My reasoning is primary I know most braids actual is Way above advertised, and like the example u give above I would be get 100+% for damn near all knots in braid.
Your  example would be well above 118% since u state the line broke, not the knot gave way or broke in the knot

I do not know if how I test is the correct std or anything....it just how I have figured out my own system for my use.

Now IF the advertised upto 95% has been done on line that has not been pre tested .. on advertised line strength then yeah I could go with that....but 95% for any knot or modded knot and genuine I recon would head around the the world like wild fire.
Have done a google on the modified dropper and basically come up with only that u tube, nothing else.
Mind you have found some real cool table, nail/ pin methods for tieing droppers...in particular simple methods to hold the ends while twisting... clamp either side on a nail.  and another.. similar to the machine... a simple wire hook to pull the apex thru the twists....means I can do it without my glasses on.Wink
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