What is wrong with this - spot the deception

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    Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 7:22pm
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11466587

It's winter so time for a little discussion about some more devious behaviour by our beloved government.

Have a read of the article and tell us what you see the real government motive being here. I'll tell you what I think after we get a few other opinions. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fishoooo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 8:02pm
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You should change your name to 'The Mysterious Tagit'
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 9:31pm
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Our wonderful government come out and tout how they are going to liberalise the rules on the Gold Card to make it better for people. They also say how they are going to make it better for local councils through a more 'secure' bulk funding arrangement rather than paying them on a per usage basis. They also appeal to the tax payer by saying how they are going to limit the cost to the current level with only inflation/CPI type adjustments into the future. Sounds wonderful for everyone doesn't it Clap

Now think past the spin doctor's blab and about what is really going on.
1) One of NZ's biggest economic issues is our aging population from the 'baby boomer' generation.
2) Our aging population means that our issue of Gold Cards as a % of population is starting to take off and will increase a lot over the next few years. 
3) This means that the government is going to face a rapidly growing cost in Gold Card subsidies that they have now woken up to.
4) The government have now through their new 'bulk funding' arrangement inserted your local council into the funding process between the ferry companies (etc) and themselves.
5) Inflation adjustments to the bulk funding will not even get close to paying the councils for the rapidly increasing cost of Gold Card subsidies as the population ages.
6) Your local council is now responsible for paying the Gold Card subsidies, but the bulk funding isn't going to cover the costs in the future.
7) Guess where your council will need to find the funding from to make up the difference.
So our government have now quite conveniently shifted the scarily fast growing Gold Card subsidies onto the local rate payers. Now you get to pay what should have been coming out of our taxes as a new cost on your rates bill. There have a been other examples of the government transferring costs into our council rates as a way of introducing stealthy taxes that they don't get blamed for, but this is probably the most devious so far. 
Did I read any of this wrong?Ouch


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 9:40pm
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As a country we are facing the same issues as many other countries at the moment.  An aging population, with the ratio of retired people to working people changing.  We simply can't afford to maintain the current benefits to retired people that we have in the past -there are too many of them and not enough people working and paying tax to balance it out.  The obvious solution, which several countries are doing, is to increase the age of retirement -but unfortunately John Key categorically ruled that out some years ago.  So the government are struggling to find alternative ways to reduce cost.  I think we can look forward to means tested pensions, getting rid of gold cards completely -or severely reducing their uses, and in the future we will still have to raise retirement ages.  Problem is this increasing older population are exactly the people who bother turning out to vote, so none of the parties want to tell the truth about the real situation.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 11:19pm
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Slippery National does it again.Pass commitments onto the councils---ie ratepayers ,who will make up shortfalls to transport operators who will be eventually controlled and possibly council owned. just like Ports of Auckland. And the line that operators will have to meet criteria and decisions made by council. Scary. Wonder what those commitments are.The council is fast becoming the new government. State control at its most devious.
Problem is council only exists for council and no one else.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote whippersnappyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2015 at 12:57pm
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The gold card was vote buying in the dying moments of the labour government. Politically difficult to remove but there is no reason for this card to exist
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2015 at 1:06pm
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It is mainly those who have never worked a physically demanding and productive job that are calling for an increase in the age of retirement. Those that have given their lives to this productive work and really are the pillars that support the economy and country are also the ones undervalued when it comes to remuneration. Many of those calling for an increase should try working sixty hours a week in these so called menial jobs. Many can not save for retirement in this country any more. Conversely the plethora of unnecessary non productive and usually overpaid seat polishers who have languished in offices all their lives do rather well at saving and suffer very few bodily effects in old age. Any GP will confirm this. I include many CEO's in those overpaid office positions.
There will be those who say, "train up, get qualified" Fair point. However what would happen if we all wanted or aspired to be management/consultants/ accountants et al. Who would be left to actually keep the wheels of society moving. Certainly not a CEO's, accountants, economists et all. They would not want to empty their owns bins let alone get their hands dirty or risk pulling a muscle. Having said that some of those flash pens can get rather heavy at times. ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2015 at 8:53pm
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i have no problem with goldcard holders using the ferry to go waiheke for free,I mean it is a timetable service run and has to run under the terms of contract,whether there 1 paying passenger of 10 card holders the get a subsidy that covers running costs,I think the problem here is that a new player is town and possibly cheaper.

when i was involved in public transport (buses)1994/95 we got a subsidy on non peak times that paid the fuel/wages etc,any cash from passengers was cream.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2015 at 11:38pm
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They can pay for the increasing retirement demand easy, the Canadians make huge profits from retirement funds (Not researched just what I heard) due to good investments ... The Gov gets tax from us as soon as we enter the work force. If they invest that as it comes they will have many times more than we invested...if they invest in NZ like the Canadians do its a double whammy it helps the economy at the same time...rose tinted glasses now taken off. 
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote corosanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2015 at 9:54am
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Having worked all my workable years and paid all them-there taxes, surely a pension and a bit of respect (and a Gold Card) are justly mine to have earned?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2015 at 10:20am
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Depends how you look at it corosanta.  That's a little bit like saying "I have lived in this rental house for 30 years and paid my rent all that time, so surely it should be mine now".  The taxes you paid were used to run the country during that time, not saved away to give back to you later on.  Perhaps, as Reel Deal explains, our governments should have taken a portion of money every year and invested it.  But, generally speaking, our past governments haven't been that smart (not that I think the current one is either).
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2015 at 10:50am
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Think there is more to this than meets the eye. With commodity prices continuing to fall we have alot less money coming in. We still have debt and interest to pay. A Greek default looming in the next week or so. The ripple effect of this added to falling commodity prices could be catastrophic   for N.Z.  In which case the gold card may be part of the initial cost cutting measures.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pompey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2015 at 11:16am
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Originally posted by corosanta corosanta wrote:

Having worked all my workable years and paid all them-there taxes, surely a pension and a bit of respect (and a Gold Card) are justly mine to have earned?

I totally agree. Paying tax is not like renting a house and expecting to own it. Tax has been paid to provide and maintain our infrastructure , social welfare and universal pensions. This was always known by tax payers, certainly of my generation. Over a lifetime , my tax has contributed to all these things and I expect not to be cheated out of a pension, irrespective by the way, of how much money I might earn elsewhere. I will simply pay the tax rate on that pension.
I have a solution to assist the funding of pensions.
Firstly, stop paying the DPB. That will will over a generation save loads of money on associated social costs. If you can't provide for your own children, then it's up to your family just like in most other countries.
Stop all unemployment benefits and create work schemes like the TEP and PEP schemes of the 70's. 
Compulsory superannuation for all workers.
Encourage older workers to retire earlier by providing a pension at say, 55. Incentives provided to make annual payments to support activities that retirees enjoy, ie, golf club membership, fishing charters, tramping national parks, personal trainers etc. This would create a wide range of opportunities for these industries to expand and create jobs. 
Encouraging early retirement allows fit younger people to pursue their interests and spend money. It also allows companies to plan their staff around earler retirement, younger workforce. Younger people would reach their income potential a lot earlier and naturally pay more tax.
Generally the workplace would be much happier. My experience has been that those people that did not want to retire were usually disliked by most staff. Their only satisfaction in life was going to work where they ruled over their kingdom no matter how trivial it was and clung on at all costs.
Better for everyone to eliminate this culture from the work place.
The other solution is a minimal flat tax for everyone, like a poll tax. Then, its everyone for themselves, user pays and survival of the fittest. We are a bit soft for that yet, but if you start off young with that attitude, you will succeed.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2015 at 1:59pm
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Originally posted by Kevin.S Kevin.S wrote:

Depends how you look at it corosanta.  That's a little bit like saying "I have lived in this rental house for 30 years and paid my rent all that time, so surely it should be mine now".  The taxes you paid were used to run the country during that time, not saved away to give back to you later on.  Perhaps, as Reel Deal explains, our governments should have taken a portion of money every year and invested it.  But, generally speaking, our past governments haven't been that smart (not that I think the current one is either).
Some of our tax was supposed to be earmarked for pensions as stipulated when the pension was first brought in. Unfortunately all parties have been guilty of throwing this portion into the consolidated fund and blowing it.
Muldoon deliberately stole it and this National Government has deliberately hobbled the Kiwi Saver scheme.
If the portion as promised had been invested and left alone there would be no problems now.
However stealing and spending other peoples money is like candy to a bureaucrat. Both central and local.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2015 at 2:06pm
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Think there is more to this than meets the eye. With commodity prices continuing to fall we have alot less money coming in. We still have debt and interest to pay. A Greek default looming in the next week or so. The ripple effect of this added to falling commodity prices could be catastrophic   for N.Z.  In which case the gold card may be part of the initial cost cutting measures.
Yep. Our overseas debt is growing by millions every week. Remember it was only nineteen odd billion when this Government took over and instantly gave us tax cuts. It must be getting close to a hundred billion now and all anyone talks about is a measly internal surplus.
We no longer have the internal means to pay this back as most if not all of our best performing assets are now privately owned or partially privatised meaning most of this revenue heads off shore.
If commodities fall even further, and I suspect they may, especially when China comes online with all the technology we have given/sold/shown and installed for them the milk solids will really hit the fan.
Finally if the TPPA comes in we will be stripped entirely of assets and land.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2015 at 8:12am
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