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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 8:41pm
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why not as said before compulsory voting even if you cross out all names.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote part-timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 9:26pm
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Originally posted by onthedrop onthedrop wrote:

The one million people who didn't vote is the tale of the tape.

what is the tale?    tell us what you think it means?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Time_Bandit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 3:10am
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Originally posted by widerange widerange wrote:

Doh.if they didn't vote they weren't national voters


how do you know ?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote widerange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 6:49am
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Um? coz they didn't vote.
if they don't vote they ain't a voter
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Olfart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 9:20am
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Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

why not as said before compulsory voting even if you cross out all names.
Pretty much what I said - if everyone is required by law to cast a vote and even if they only use their party vote as provided for under the current system - then there would be meaningful demographics available as to the true feeling in this country. 
I think the problem we have at present is that people are required to cast two votes (one for a candidate and one for a party) and while people may like a certain candidate they do not necessarily like the party the candidate represents, so tend to spread their votes - or they just don't bother to vote at all.  MMP as a voting system in my opinion is not helping at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Finatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 9:27am
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It's funny, because a lot of those people who are quick to moan about the Government, are those that didn't bother getting off their chuffs to vote.

A few people I know who didn't vote, said it was because they didn't think their vote is going to make a difference.Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 9:30am
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"Olfart"mmp?take papakura electorate,judith collins mp national,new she would get in again,so did not do a candidate vote only a party vote(not national)even if she did not receive enough candidate votes she can still get in as a list mp.Go back to first past the post?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Olfart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 9:44am
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Yeah that is what I was getting at Paul.  Too easy for hangers on in the MMP party lists to be elevated into the MP ranks without Joe Public having a say as regards representation.
FPP at least sorted that rubbish out and I'm not saying a return to that system would have created a different result this election but at least there would be certainty in voters minds that the person appointed to represent an electorate achieved this on their own merits.
Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat....



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SaltyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 10:29am
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I am of the opposite opinion actually.

If someone "can't be bothered" voting or somehow through a strange logic pattern I don't claim to understand thinks not voting is some sort of protest then I don't care. Vote or don't vote, your choice but if you won't or can't be bothered then that is entirely your problem and nothing needs to be done to make someone so disengaged and disinterested vote.

Lets be clear, politicians don't care who doesn't vote they are only going to care about whether you vote for them or one of their opposition. Not voting doesn't effect the outcome. Not voting is not a protest as no one registers or cares that you didn't vote.

Spoiling your ballot paper by crossing out all names or not selecting one also doesn't register as a protest, you are simply classed with those who were unable to follow simple instructions and spoilt their paper. There is no breakdown of how the paper was spoilt.

Democracy is people deciding to be involved and voting accordingly. I don't think compulsion has any part in a democracy, whether that is compulsion to use a certain type of energy saving light bulb, or size shower head or vote.

I am not a supporter of MMP but for those still promoting FPP, look back at the election results and FPP rarely delivered a government voted for by the majority of the people . In fact some of the governments elected under FPP were voted for by substantially less NZers than the oppostion at the time. Large majorities in a seat effected only that seat and were counterbalanced (unevenly) by another seat won by the other party on a very small majority but both seats had the same "weight" in deciding who governed eg a party could win a seat with a 15000 majority and the other party could win a seat with a majority of less than 100 votes but both seats have the same weight in deciding who governs. 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 11:40am
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There is also the very real danger that if the people who didn't bother voting were forced to actually vote the next government could end up being a coalition between the legalise cannabis party and the civilian party.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 12:44pm
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Originally posted by Finatic Finatic wrote:

It's funny, because a lot of those people who are quick to moan about the Government, are those that didn't bother getting off their chuffs to vote.

A few people I know who didn't vote, said it was because they didn't think their vote is going to make a difference.Confused


And to a point they are correct. One individual vote does not make much a difference unless an electorate seat is won by only one vote. Otherwise the only other way to guarantee your vote counts is to form a voting block and all agree to vote the same way. Say 500k of people. You can then negotiate with various party's and know for sure you vote will count/have an effect.
Otherwise you are really just voting for the sake of it.
In Holland the Islamic community just about has a large enough voting block to change the countries values. Scary huh!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SaltyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 2:49pm
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Originally posted by v8-coupe v8-coupe wrote:

Originally posted by Finatic Finatic wrote:

It's funny, because a lot of those people who are quick to moan about the Government, are those that didn't bother getting off their chuffs to vote.

A few people I know who didn't vote, said it was because they didn't think their vote is going to make a difference.Confused


And to a point they are correct. One individual vote does not make much a difference unless an electorate seat is won by only one vote. Otherwise the only other way to guarantee your vote counts is to form a voting block and all agree to vote the same way. Say 500k of people. You can then negotiate with various party's and know for sure you vote will count/have an effect.
Otherwise you are really just voting for the sake of it.

What nonsense!

Every individual vote is exactly the same value. 

The 1,000,000 votes National got or the roughly 500,000 votes Labour got are made up of single individual votes that all counted towards the total number of votes each party got and the final totals of those votes for each party determines the number of MPs each party ends up with in parliament under MMP.

In fact your electorate vote is the one that doesn't count towards the actual number of MPs a party gets and therefore which party(s) govern for the next 3 years.

We have around 2 million people who bother to vote for for 120 MPs (121 this year) This means you need only 16,700 or so votes to change the number of MPs a party gets ie 1 MP=16600 votes cast by individuals who do value their individual right to vote.
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