DOC Eco nazis strike again

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote o Neill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 10:38am
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Everyone found their way here by boats orginally including the Polynesian rats.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Zambezi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 10:46am
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Originally posted by Built_to_fish Built_to_fish wrote:

they're classed as native as they found their own way here??? So if a shet load of overseas refugee's Found there way here on boats and settled as well are they natives then? as the way i looked at it, they are over stayers...


yes they are, this is not about a group of people making there way here under their own steam, take that argument elsewhere.

Unlike with the Kai Iwi lakes experiment (where they just removed trout), they're talking about getting as many natives out as the can then killing everything thats left behind off.

If the trout made their own way here then so be it let them stay but unlike the pelicans they didn't. There fore there is nothing natural about there existence in NZ.

Other than the pelican statement I agree with sharp hook's post completely.

At the end of the day the stream they're going to do this in are one of a few that can be isolated and contained (with realisitc bounds and with out natural factors like weather/floods) with out any additional human interference/development needed that would cause further down stream impact.

Even if it's the only one they do it in (which is unlikley), good on them for at leasting trying to do something to save these fish before they're all gone.



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Zambezi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 10:48am
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http://terranature.org/extinctBirds.htm

They were here before humans and after.
A man’s comfort in life can be measured by the quality of the toilet paper he uses to wipe his arse.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mullins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 11:10am
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Originally posted by Built_to_fish Built_to_fish wrote:

<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">they're classed as native as they found their own way here??? So if a shet load of overseas refugee's Found there way here on boats and settled as well are they natives then? as the way i looked at it, they are over stayers...</span>


They would be classified as indigenous and offered a range of 4g frequencies.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Flyfishboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 8:31pm
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And here's me thinking that this site was for fishos. Just goes to show " the enemy is within" . Bye I,m off fishing!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote long john Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 9:44pm
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Hope you release them well up the bank
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Flyfishboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 8:40am
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Ha ha. That's nice. (As in Mrs Browns boys)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Zambezi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 9:19am
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Hope you remember to take the tinfoil hat off while you're outside/fishing
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote sharp hook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 7:58pm
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Two Pesticides -- Rotenone and Paraquat -- Linked to Parkinso

The study was a collaborative effort conducted by researchers at the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS), which is part of the National Institutes of Health, and the Parkinson's Institute and Clinical Center in Sunnyvale, Calif.

"Rotenone directly inhibits the function of the mitochondria, the structure responsible for making energy in the cell," said Freya Kamel, Ph.D., a researcher in the intramural program at NIEHS and co-author of the paper appearing online in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives. "Paraquat increases production of certain oxygen derivatives that may harm cellular structures. People who used these pesticides or others with a similar mechanism of action were more likely to develop Parkinson's disease.

n's Disease, Study Suggests

Feb. 15, 2011 — New research shows a link between use of two pesticides, rotenone and paraquat, and Parkinson's disease. People who used either pesticide developed Parkinson's disease approximately 2.5 times more often than non-users.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 10:14pm
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Originally posted by SpringCreeky SpringCreeky wrote:

Rainbow

I think DOCs eradication of trout at Zealandia and Gareth Morgans stance on cats are different.  

Your explanation suggests removing cats doesn't resolve the problem it simply creates a new one. By the analogy in your letter you would have to remove every single pest species to be effective. The use of Rotenone would do just that. I guess it is the fresh water version of intense pest eradication carried out on off shore islands, Maungatautri and of course Zealandia. In terms of recovery of native species these are generally seen as a success.  

Sadly we have made a mess of it all. but there are situations were we can make improvements and I don't think the operation at Zealandia should be seen as sinister or the actions of zealots.    

 
Personally I see Zealandia as something of a open air zoo and an expensive one at that.   As such I am not really interested in it other than that it has become a rallying place for dreamers of the  "Pest Free NZ Vision".    If you really want to champion for the better protection of natice galaxiids than your efforts would be better spent on working for the decommercialisation of the whitebait fishery and the introduction of a maximum daily catch.   
 
There are countless troutfree water courses up and down the country that are ideal whitebait habitat but are relentlessly hammered all season long by whitebaiters many of them with dollar signs in their eyes.    While trout eat native fish, the real threat to their welfare is widespread habitat destruction and fishing pressure.    Like with singling out cats it easier to demonise trout than to look and act on the wider picture.
 
Rainbow  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SpringCreeky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 11:47pm
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Originally posted by sharp hook sharp hook wrote:


<h1 id="line" ="story">Two Pesticides -- Rotenone and Paraquat -- Linked to Parkinso</h1>

The study was a collaborative effort conducted by researchers at the
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS), which is
part of the National Institutes of Health, and the Parkinson's Institute
and Clinical Center in Sunnyvale, Calif.


"Rotenone directly inhibits the function of the mitochondria, the
structure responsible for making energy in the cell," said Freya Kamel,
Ph.D., a researcher in the intramural program at NIEHS and co-author of
the paper appearing online in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives.
"Paraquat increases production of certain oxygen derivatives that may
harm cellular structures. People who used these pesticides or others
with a similar mechanism of action were more likely to develop
Parkinson's disease.

<h1 id="line" ="story">n's Disease, Study Suggests</h1>
               
               
                    <p id="first"><span ="date">Feb. 15, 2011</span> — New research
shows a link between use of two pesticides, rotenone and paraquat, and
Parkinson's disease. People who used either pesticide developed
Parkinson's disease approximately 2.5 times more often than non-users.




Interesting.... But not surprising considering how nasty paraquat is!
Is it still widely used? Google tells me Ravensdowne sell a paraquat product, and I am pretty sure I have used a herbicide which recommended mixing with paraquat when spraying out lucerne.

I wonder what the life span of rotonone is in water, I know it doesn't last long in soil. I think it also the active ingredient in Derris dust?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SpringCreeky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 11:59pm
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Originally posted by Rainbow Rainbow wrote:

Originally posted by SpringCreeky SpringCreeky wrote:

Rainbow

I think DOCs eradication of trout at Zealandia and Gareth Morgans stance on cats are different.  

Your explanation suggests removing cats doesn't resolve the problem it simply creates a new one. By the analogy in your letter you would have to remove every single pest species to be effective. The use of Rotenone would do just that. I guess it is the fresh water version of intense pest eradication carried out on off shore islands, Maungatautri and of course Zealandia. In terms of recovery of native species these are generally seen as a success.  

Sadly we have made a mess of it all. but there are situations were we can make improvements and I don't think the operation at Zealandia should be seen as sinister or the actions of zealots.    


 
Personally I see Zealandia as something of a open air zoo and an expensive one at that.   As such I am not really interested in it other than that it has become a rallying place for dreamers of the  "Pest Free NZ Vision".    If you really want to champion for the better protection of natice galaxiids than your efforts would be better spent on working for the decommercialisation of the whitebait fishery and the introduction of a maximum daily catch.    
 
There are countless troutfree water courses up and down the country that are ideal whitebait habitat but are relentlessly hammered all season long by whitebaiters many of them with dollar signs in their eyes.    While trout eat native fish, the real threat to their welfare is widespread habitat destruction and fishing pressure.    Like with singling out cats it easier to demonise trout than to look and act on the wider picture.
 
Rainbow  



Yes there are many issues that affect our native species..... The list is long so we have a lot of work to do in a number of areas..... But does the general population care enough to try and make a difference... Probably not. But these small pockets are a start and possibly a good way to, at least, get people interested in conservation.

While we are thinking about restricting the white bait catch we should look at the commercial eel fishery and long fins as well

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 12:10pm
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Originally posted by SpringCreeky SpringCreeky wrote:

Originally posted by Rainbow Rainbow wrote:

[QUOTE=SpringCreeky]Rainbow



While we are thinking about restricting the white bait catch we should look at the commercial eel fishery and long fins as well

Cheers
 
Spring Creek
Here we are on the same page.     However, I see DOC's trout poisoning at Zealandia as a convenient trial run for further as yet undisclosed projects on the Doc estate.    Apart from a small DOC team managing the Taupo trout fishery and that only becasue of a binding agreement between the Crown and Tuwharetoa the rest of DOC regards trout as "the possums of the rivers".     It and its idiological string pullers, the Forest and Bird Society do everything to undermine the public perception of trout as a valuable sport fish.     
 
This comes from a department that cant even look after its most basic national park assets.   Only the other day I took my grandson to Egmont National Park on yet another track that had been let go to wreck and ruin through lack of even the most basic maintenance.    I avoid going there as it breaks my heart to see how an endless parade of woolyheaded money wasters has mismanaged the department.     Its new regional structure is now more or less the same as that of the NZ Forest Service (one of DOC's founding departments) when DOC was formed in 1987.     If it were not so painful to go back over the years I spent in DOC I could write a book about the many hairbrained schemes and and general lack of efficiency motivation I had to endure during that time.     Zealandia is symtomatic of people trying to walk on water.    
Rainbow
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