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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2019 at 6:27pm
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Originally posted by Marligator Marligator wrote:


The Croc - You have access to some very useful and up to date data which most people do not have access to, or at least without having to do a huge amount of digging and this got me wondering as to how you fitted into things.
 
I now realise that you are a Fisheries Analyst in the MPI Recreational Fishing Team. This is not an attack on you just letting people have some context as to why you are saying what you are in this thread.


Ha yeah, I was, but I left there at the end of May. I don't work anywhere near fisheries anymore. Now I'm just a kayak fisher, occasional surf caster and spear fisher.

Let's just say over 4 years as a fisheries observer, 3 years running observers all over the country and 4 years as an analyst I learnt some things.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2019 at 6:58pm
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Jeez croc if you kayak fish you do know you should be up on your fish caught to dollars spent ratio eh?



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2019 at 8:19pm
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Originally posted by Marligator Marligator wrote:


The Croc given that we now know you work for MPI and you have a vast amount of data at your fingertips can you shed some light on the average weight of snapper caught in SNA1 over each of the last 15 years.
 
I note also you have not made any comment about my earlier post regarding numbers of fish being removed per tonne with a diminishing average weight caught other than to say that the small ones are the preferred target size.
 
Also interesting that the PSH gear can't legally be used in <50M of water. I have heard that with the PSH system there is still a high proportion of <250mm snapper being caught as the fish form a "school" in the net and the small fish do not want to leave the school and escape through the wholes even though they can. How does pulling them up from>50m water depth effect the survivability of these fish when they are returned to the water with respect to Barotrauma. Can you comment on this please as I am sure there was a lot of research went into this with all the public money that went into funding the research and development of these nets.
 
 I live in Papamoa where we have a major problem with trawlers coming in close to shore in the middle of the night when everybody is asleep, all of this netting activity happens way inside 50m of water so the PSH system can't be used. So I am interested in knowing for the BOP caught snapper is any of it being caught using PSH nets.



Given I don't work there anymore I've got the same access to data as you do. As far as I know weight data like that doesn't exist. There is catch at age data in the plenary though which is essentially the same thing.



I'm not entirely sure what you wanted me to comment on?

With PSH there is higher juvenile mortality than regular trawl gear. That's why they have to fish deeper than 50m as there is less chance of catching undersized fish. Anything they catch at that depth will likely not survive. There are a bunch of reports available, I'll dig them out.

The majority of trawlers in SNA1 are using PSH now, but there are still conventional nets being used as well as Danish seining.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2019 at 8:25pm
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Here's the latest report. There are others if want to Google them.

Internal Briefing to the Director General: Application by Precision Seafood Harvesting Limited Partnership for approval to use a trawl net for inshore fishing

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/34596/direct&ved=2ahUKEwjnh9igoubjAhW_7HMBHfOxBlAQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3bVAh-NPHBeTrE61ehouuE
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2019 at 8:43pm
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Anyway, cheers fellas, I was a rec fisher long before I started as a fisheries observer working for Ministry of Fisheries back in the day and I joined this forum when I was still at uni. I'm not leaving anytime soon.

Placing observers on boats I've been told to go **** myself by all manner of commercial fishers over the years so I've got a pretty thick skin. Which also makes it pretty funny when I get accused of being pro-commercial or whatever it is.

Here's some Kāpiti Coast snaps for ya with a couple of trevs and a ky thrown in for good measure. Paddling about 1km offshore fishing 7-8m over sand. The fishery is going from strength to strength down here.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Sanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 7:32am
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Originally posted by the croc the croc wrote:

The fishery is going from strength to strength down here.


I'm relatively new around this forum so I know I have to be mindful about what I say, and do do with respect but these comments are misleading croc. Perhaps something like recovering in some areas would be more appropriate. I've lived down In wellington twice in my life and its a wonderful coastline. However I've frequently free dived across reefs which should hold abundant shellfish and fish but are completely barren. I've scrubbed around in remote areas past Red Rocks and found a single legal paua . Poaching is a huge problem. Poaching for profit. They literally scrape the reefs of every living thing. I've had fisheries officers go over my stuff wearing stab vests because they are often physically threatened. I've always been helpful and polite but seem up against it and under resourced. Scuba poachers going in at night most likely. Regarding your fish lineup, that's a nice haul and I've had good days too. very good days. But folk are unlikely to throw a line in at Days bay and get a feed like you could 20 years ago. You need to go 1km out.  In my opinion comments like 'the fishery is going from strength to strength' enable commercial interests to feel entitled to demand more and to a degree poachers who feel entitled to take more.  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Marligator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 9:00am
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The Croc yes you now have the same access to data as us, but the fundamental difference is you know what data there is, where to find it, which is a huge advantage over us lesser mortals. Please don't get the ****s with this forum as you have a lot to offer in these types of threads and can provide some very good data.
You may be correct the fishing down your way is improving, but I can tell you that in the BOP things are generally going backwards rapidly. Out from Papamoa there used to be a lot of boats fishing during the summer months within a couple of k's of shore, commonly 30-40 boats, over the last few summers there has been a marked decline in boats fishing this area with some flat calm days with virtually no boats in site of shore, this is a sure sign of a lack of fish.
 
The Mount Maunganui Sport Fishing Club had their annual prize giving last night and the numbers of fish weighed were discussed compared to the previous season. For all the inshore species - snapper, Kahawai, Gurnard, Terakihi etc numbers were about 40% down across all species compared to the previous season.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (3) Likes(3)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 4:48pm
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Originally posted by Sanchez Sanchez wrote:

Originally posted by the croc the croc wrote:

The fishery is going from strength to strength down here.



I'm relatively new around this forum so I know I have to be mindful about what I say, and do do with respect but these comments are misleading croc. Perhaps something like recovering in some areas would be more appropriate. I've lived down In wellington twice in my life and its a wonderful coastline. However I've frequently free dived across reefs which should hold abundant shellfish and fish but are completely barren. I've scrubbed around in remote areas past Red Rocks and found a single legal paua . Poaching is a huge problem. Poaching for profit. They literally scrape the reefs of every living thing. I've had fisheries officers go over my stuff wearing stab vests because they are often physically threatened. I've always been helpful and polite but seem up against it and under resourced. Scuba poachers going in at night most likely. Regarding your fish lineup, that's a nice haul and I've had good days too. very good days. But folk are unlikely to throw a line in at Days bay and get a feed like you could 20 years ago. You need to go 1km out.  In my opinion comments like 'the fishery is going from strength to strength' enable commercial interests to feel entitled to demand more and to a degree poachers who feel entitled to take more.  


That is the tone of the crocs posts though. Its like a bit of MPI information express of how naughty recs are and what a wonderful bunch the comms are bringing all that money into the country.

Which is ironic as now more than ever money seems less important to the current govt with then willing to shut off wholesale economic benefits for the country. Why would they not shut off exploiting our fish stocks to overseas markets to ensure our country is fed with own fish into the future? Winston maybe helping comms but current polling aint looking good for him and if the Greens get a bigger voice...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 8:50pm
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On one hand we shut down the oil and gas industry worth multi billions,and in doing so guarantee the importation of more expensive gas from more progressive countries in the near future. Already we are importing coal from indonesia to keep huntly going so auckland can have coal powered E.Vs.
On the other hand we fish down and export Kahawai and Trevelly for a couple of bucks a kilo to bring in overseas funds.Well thats not going to cut the mustard when it comes to overseas funds.
These fish ,if left alone could be the base of a multi billion tourist industry. Not only for small game fish that Kahawai ,and also kingfish are,but for people coming to see the workups,the marine mammals and host of sea birds that such a workup and spectacle can bring.
Our policies are back to front, beyond belief.
Or to quote George Orwell.
"One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that.No ordinary man could be such a fool"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish Addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 10:18pm
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

On one hand we shut down the oil and gas industry worth multi billions,and in doing so guarantee the importation of more expensive gas from more progressive countries in the near future.....
On the other hand we fish down and export Kahawai and Trevelly for a couple of bucks a kilo to bring in overseas funds.Well thats not going to cut the mustard when it comes to overseas funds.


Something worth remembering come the next election.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (3) Likes(3)   Quote FISHBYFLY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 5:31pm
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A big ThankYou To Scott for giving a very concise description of our Fisheries management on "The panel'' RadioNZ  today.
 
its a show with huge amount of listeners,anything helps with a  better informed public.
 
Thanks AgainThumbs UpThumbs UpClap
By Fly, Nothing Else,Just Fly
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 5:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 6:28pm
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Haha (I shouldn't laugh)oh dear and that is why I have so little faith in any of the graphics we get from MPI.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 6:34pm
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Just now on One news a trawl net with some real nice bycatch, big Kingies.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 6:47pm
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Yes, Scott did very well - never easy that stuff. 
kudos to him.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2019 at 12:36am
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Originally posted by Sanchez Sanchez wrote:

Originally posted by the croc the croc wrote:

The fishery is going from strength to strength down here.



I'm relatively new around this forum so I know I have to be mindful about what I say, and do do with respect but these comments are misleading croc. Perhaps something like recovering in some areas would be more appropriate. I've lived down In wellington twice in my life and its a wonderful coastline. However I've frequently free dived across reefs which should hold abundant shellfish and fish but are completely barren. I've scrubbed around in remote areas past Red Rocks and found a single legal paua . Poaching is a huge problem. Poaching for profit. They literally scrape the reefs of every living thing. I've had fisheries officers go over my stuff wearing stab vests because they are often physically threatened. I've always been helpful and polite but seem up against it and under resourced. Scuba poachers going in at night most likely. Regarding your fish lineup, that's a nice haul and I've had good days too. very good days. But folk are unlikely to throw a line in at Days bay and get a feed like you could 20 years ago. You need to go 1km out.  In my opinion comments like 'the fishery is going from strength to strength' enable commercial interests to feel entitled to demand more and to a degree poachers who feel entitled to take more.  


I'm talking snapper dude. It's cranking.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2019 at 12:39am
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Originally posted by Marligator Marligator wrote:


The Croc yes you now have the same access to data as us, but the fundamental difference is you know what data there is, where to find it, which is a huge advantage over us lesser mortals. Please don't get the ****s with this forum as you have a lot to offer in these types of threads and can provide some very good data.
You may be correct the fishing down your way is improving, but I can tell you that in the BOP things are generally going backwards rapidly. Out from Papamoa there used to be a lot of boats fishing during the summer months within a couple of k's of shore, commonly 30-40 boats, over the last few summers there has been a marked decline in boats fishing this area with some flat calm days with virtually no boats in site of shore, this is a sure sign of a lack of fish.
 
The Mount Maunganui Sport Fishing Club had their annual prize giving last night and the numbers of fish weighed were discussed compared to the previous season. For all the inshore species - snapper, Kahawai, Gurnard, Terakihi etc numbers were about 40% down across all species compared to the previous season.


Not diminishing your experiences at all Marligator. Like I said earlier, push commercial trawl out to 4nm and cut the snapper TACC would make a big difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2019 at 12:45am
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

On one hand we shut down the oil and gas industry worth multi billions,and in doing so guarantee the importation of more expensive gas from more progressive countries in the near future. Already we are importing coal from indonesia to keep huntly going so auckland can have coal powered E.Vs.
On the other hand we fish down and export Kahawai and Trevelly for a couple of bucks a kilo to bring in overseas funds.Well thats not going to cut the mustard when it comes to overseas funds.
These fish ,if left alone could be the base of a multi billion tourist industry. Not only for small game fish that Kahawai ,and also kingfish are,but for people coming to see the workups,the marine mammals and host of sea birds that such a workup and spectacle can bring.
Our policies are back to front, beyond belief.
Or to quote George Orwell.
"One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that.No ordinary man could be such a fool"



Mate, a tourist charter fishery isn't good for kiwi reccies. It doesn't help you or me catch fish. It's just another extractive sector.

There are massive issues in Kaikoura with Chinese owned charter vessels and with busloads of tourists hammering paua in Southland.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2019 at 3:10am
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you are missing the point tourist industry "Croc" a commercial can catch a fish once and the govt gets a few $$. Tourist can catch photo release and that fish can be caught many times,what is that one fish worth?? govt gets $$ from charter operator motel/hotel and other expenses tourist may spend, so that one fish released could produce $20/$30 for govt time and time again. once removed from the sea and dead govt only recieves one payment,but could generate more if industry tourisism is run  correctly.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2019 at 5:19am
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Tony Orton proved that point, $400 a kilo was the price his tourists on his operation paid.
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