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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 6:05pm
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July 18, 2019
The Quota Management System has short-changed fish, mana whenua and the public since it was established in 1986.
The system was set up with the quota owners having to pay resource rentals. This only lasted a few years. For the past 30 years the commercial fishing industry has not paid for the use of these publicly-owned resources.
“Incredibly, we gave away most of our fisheries at no charge,” said LegaSea spokesman Scott Macindoe.
“Perpetual property rights were created out of thin air, fully transferable and tax-free. Those who did the most damage to our fish stocks were the ones who reaped the greatest rewards.
“The public is getting such a raw deal. The promised rebuilds have simply not happened. One species after another is suffering the ‘sustainable depletion’ that inevitably occurs after decades of chasing the mythical ‘maximum sustainable yield’ that the QMS is driven by.”
Macindoe said the QMS had failed both coastal fish populations and those depending on fisheries for their livelihoods.
“To usher in the QMS thousands of artisanal part-time fishermen lost their permits. This had a devastating effect on small, regional communities. Some coastal towns in the Far North and on the East Coast have never recovered. The process to revoke fishing permits had a disproportionate effect on Māori, many of whom fished when the season was right and then worked elsewhere in the off-season. They were the source of good healthy food for their communities. We sure miss these whānau businesses today.”
When the government attempted to introduce new species into the QMS in 1987, Māori challenged the process and eventually settled commercial claims in 1992 with the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi Settlement Deed.
“Māori non-commercial interests in fishing, both customary and recreational, are still affected today by the lack of fish in the water. When Māori are fishing to feed the whānau this is classified as recreational fishing. Research shows that 52% of Māori who fish in the sea say they rely on fishing to feed their families, compared with 27% of the adult population overall.
“Having access to abundant fish stocks is fundamental in providing for both Māori and the public’s interests in fisheries. However, often as not the pathways to abundance are blocked by quota owners wielding so much influence over fisheries management and marine protection matters.”
In his role as LegaSea support and alignment specialist, Macindoe has frequent conversations with people who are frustrated by their inability to have an area set aside for conservation, to remove the indiscriminate and destructive bottom trawling and dredging from our sensitive and highly productive inshore zones or to simply have excessive catch allocations reduced.
“Just 10 entities own 78% of all quota shares today. New Zealand is being held to ransom by a handful of organisations clinging to the status quo. They are dominating the management processes at a great cost to all New Zealanders.
“If we want a future where fisheries are restored to abundance, the QMS has to go.”
ENDS
 
The Quota Management System: the sustainable depletion of our fish stocks

100 entities own 90% of all quota shares.

Over 90% of all fish caught in New Zealand waters is harvested by commercial fishers.

400,000 tonnes of total allowable catch recorded per year is taken commercially.

Just 3% of total allowable catch from New Zealand waters is due to recreational fishing.

Thousands of tonnes of fish are exported for less than $3 per kilo, with no added value to New Zealand.

‘Sustainable’ catch limits defined as 20% of original biomass when 40% is the management default (with a few exceptions in the Fisheries Act).

As at 2019, 56% of the targeted fish stocks are NOT scientifically assessed.


Contact
Scott Macindoe [email protected] 
021 622 463

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote marlinmarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 9:36pm
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Paul
What are your thoughts on this?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2019 at 12:00pm
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Hi Marty,Yep been thinking about the reply,no easy answer or magic bullet. Have an email from Stuart Nash that states mpi have spent $21 m to say the stocks are healthy but if reccs got together and had a survey done we would get a different result. In SNA1 around the bag limit cut snapper were suppose to be 20% biomass but last year read somewhere they were down to 14% so how in 5/6yrs did we loose 6%??

The QMS needs a major overhaul,all around the world particularly our closest neighbour,Australia,claim to have worlds best practice too and in the same boat as NZ.

Scrape quota system on species but have quota per tonnage. Regardless of species you can only catch X amount.  So if you had a 10 tonne quota and caught 2 tonne of ky tough,land all catch and where species have size limit and you land say snapper at 230(20 under)then you pay a deemed value of X amount $?? so you would need to change net/cod to allow smaller fish to escape.  vessel over 25ft compulsory cameras 24/7 + automatic position reporting. So if there was a dumping and you were in the area chances are it you.  No vessel to leave without an observer onboard and owner pays a % expense for observer.
I know Scott/legasea are against land all catch but why dump and waste?
Yes trawler/seiner out  to the 10/12 mile limit from any shore line including outer lying islands. Be a bit like the prawn industry closed and open season. No commercial fishing from say October to late January to try to miss spawning.
Longliners to banned from inshore where recreational fish,particularly from 1st April to end of September where they can basically fish where they like,move them out from Kawau Bay inner gulf(firth) Kawakawa bay .

Quota ownership should be owner of vessel is the holder and must have to be onboard. So instead of Sanfords having 20/30 contractors catching and dictating what they want its then up to the owner fish smarter and get the best value. 

As for us reccs I often wonder about our bag limits and species numbers,3 kings 7 snapper + 20 finfish,why not have a bag limit of 15 regardless of species,keep all would be hard to police so we would have to smarten up on our techniques??

Forgot about flounder/mullet netters,should be given set areas to net not where joe public nets,


Thoughts.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote marlinmarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2019 at 12:39pm
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Mulling it over..
Perhaps might focus on the media release rather than try to solve it in one forum post
Reply tonite
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2019 at 1:51pm
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Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

Yes trawler/seiner out  to the 10/12 mile limit from any shore line including outer lying islands. Be a bit like the prawn industry closed and open season. No commercial fishing from say October to late January to try to miss spawning.
Longliners to banned from inshore where recreational fish,particularly from 1st April to end of September where they can basically fish where they like,move them out from Kawau Bay inner gulf(firth) Kawakawa bay .

Forgot about flounder/mullet netters,should be given set areas to net not where joe public nets,
Thoughts.


So what your really say Paul is ban commercial fishing altogether especially in areas where recreational fish, dont forget recreational also fish beyond 12NM. If you going to have closed seasons for commercial WHY not recreational too.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2019 at 2:44pm
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Originally posted by Tzer Tzer wrote:

Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

Yes trawler/seiner out  to the 10/12 mile limit from any shore line including outer lying islands. Be a bit like the prawn industry closed and open season. No commercial fishing from say October to late January to try to miss spawning.
Longliners to banned from inshore where recreational fish,particularly from 1st April to end of September where they can basically fish where they like,move them out from Kawau Bay inner gulf(firth) Kawakawa bay .

Forgot about flounder/mullet netters,should be given set areas to net not where joe public nets,
Thoughts.


So what your really say Paul is ban commercial fishing altogether especially in areas where recreational fish, dont forget recreational also fish beyond 12NM. If you going to have closed seasons for commercial WHY not recreational too.
But how much would we remove compared to the commercial??  The bit I struggle with  is the $3 kg export price,but we do not know the species.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote marlinmarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2019 at 7:18pm
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In 2009 stats nz changed reporting it damn hard to get exact info now a a lay person.

In 2018 we exported whole frozen and unprocessed

22,840,428 kg of Jack Mackerel at an average price of $1.66 per kg,

1,372,470 kg of Kahawai at an average price of $1.63 per kg,

1,538,790 kg of trevally at an average price of $3.28 per kg

4,552,840 kg of skipjack tuna at an average price of $2.00 per kg.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote marlinmarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2019 at 8:43am
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Hey lads
Nothing in the press release is a beat up on comercial fishers.
Its a direct attack on the legislation.
The original intent was a result of a free for all when NZ only had an EEZ of say 10m.
It was rape and pillage on epic scale the fisheries were in deep trouble.
Politicians made hasty calls and created legislation to protect the fishery.
The intent was very honourable and did have some checks in place to stop exploitation of quota ownership.
This all failed and quota became valuable as a property right and too hard to administer. Smaller operators sold out.
What part corporates had in manipulatind this outcome would be an interesting topic.
However we look at it change on a mass scale is overdue.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2019 at 11:53pm
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Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

Hi Marty,Yep been thinking about the reply,no easy answer or magic bullet. Have an email from Stuart Nash that states mpi have spent $21 m to say the stocks are healthy but if reccs got together and had a survey done we would get a different result. 


Any reason why this hasn't been done yet?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote marlinmarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 8:08am
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Just my personal opinion counting fish stocks is total guess work and at best unreliable. How can you really count fish underwater?
If we assume its accuracy is within say 20% erring on the side of caution is pretty vital.

We have was called maximum sustainable yield and we remove a volume of fish on this basis.
Even the term disgusts me maximum sustainable profit what a really is.

This philosophy is outdated it should read maximum protection of biomass , benthic seafloor and oceans.
Perhaps then we would see better methods.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote marlinmarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 8:45pm
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If you wanted to know some numbers on export returns for some fish. This information is straight from Seafood NZ.

Some numbers for total exports in the year 2018 of certain species will shock you relevant to the average prize sold for.

We exported (whole frozen and unprocessed) 22,840,428 kg of Jack Mackerel at an average price of $1.66 per kg,

1,372,470 kg of Kahawai at an average price of $1.63 per kg,

1,538,790 kg of trevally at an average price of $3.28 per kg

4,552,840 kg of skipjack tuna at an average price of $2.00 per kg.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote BFIST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 9:45pm
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Those Jack macs could feed a lot of Kingi and Marlin!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote marlinmarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 10:47pm
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Yes Brett
Probably fertiliser now
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 11:51pm
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How do you force other countries to import fish at a higher price when New Zealand is competing with international markets?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mudfish marquand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 3:16pm
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Those export figures are more than shocking, they are disgusting. There is enough to pay for the boat operation and crew, at the expense of the resource. Has certainly opened my eyes.
On the fly or not interested.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote marlinmarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 3:34pm
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Perhaps ask yourself a 2 x different questions.
Is it profitable or just keeping a processing plant busy.
Is it good stewardship to harvest non profitable fish to then gift to other countries.

Better off staying in our oceans IMO
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mudfish marquand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 5:43pm
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I agree with you marlinmarty and I appreciate the time you and others have spent bringing it attention of me and other forum members. I for the life of me can't understand how our commercial fisheries has lasted this long. I thought that things may change with the change of government and Clark Gayford's association with the PM. The whole thing is a bloody joke, and a bad one at that. I often seen the bloody seiners heading out to sea to wreak havoc on schooling fish species. The kahawai are the peoples' fish and to recreational anglers, they are worth a lot more that $1.63 a kg.
On the fly or not interested.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote marlinmarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 6:37pm
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Thanks for taking an interest it really is a case of people power if we want change.
I am sure Clarke G has his heart fully behind change but its got to be pitched so that kiwis as a nation force govt policy.
Otherwise the govt will get its head chopped off.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 4:59pm
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just a little reminder of how fisheries were suppose to shared under the QMS,so what went wrong?



 to ensure recreational users have access to a reasonable share of fishery resources. Government's position is clear, where a species of fish is not sufficiently abundant to support both commercial and non-commercial fishing, preference will be given to non-commercial fishing. This position reflects Government's resolve to ensure all New Zealanders can enjoy and benefit from our fisheries.

New Zealand is now recognised as a world leader in commercial fisheries management. This policy ensures we are at the forefront of recreational fisheries policy as well.

Colin Moyle
Minister of Fisheries
June 1989
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote marlinmarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 5:40pm
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PJ
In general the rec regulations work pretty well.
The same cannot be said for the commercial legislation
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