The minister of consevation says..

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    Posted: 14 Dec 2002 at 7:44am
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Titanium
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It has gone far enough already!

Without any public consultation and without the submission documents being available the Minister of Conservation has come out and stated...

"The American experience(with marine reserves)and our experience locally proves marine reserves have beneficial effects for recreational fishermen. I feel confident people on the Hibiscus Coast will see how it happens."

Does this mean it is already a fore gone conclusion that the marine reseve at Tiri will go ahead!

I wait with anticapation for NZ Underwater to release the submission Documents and proposal plans. Funny how they will do it over the next 2-3 weeks when everyone is away on holiday or too busy to think about the idea! I also note that the submissions will close at the end of Febuary. Doesn't leave long for any public consultation does it? Will the holiday makers in the area be the majority if there is any consultation? You know how they can turn the statistics around to show in their favour!

A recent letter to the editor was refused as it was too long. The only reason it was long, I told them, was because there was alot of factual information that needs to be passed on to the public so an educated point of view can occur.

I will keep you posted and if you require submission documents let me know at [email protected] and I can organise a set for you.

Damian Clayton- THE CHARTER CONNECTION

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2002 at 1:01pm
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Titanium
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Hi Damian, as fate would have it I have just been published in todays Herald, letters to the editor.  Have a read I would appreciate feed back on my litterary efforts.

Cheers

Graham

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote trevally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2002 at 7:54pm
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Damian & others

The of minister of conservation is displaying a complete lack of knowledge of the marine environment when claiming that fishing improves with a marine reserve. Unfortunately this continued claim is being picked up by an ill informed public who think the minister knows what he is talking about.

The following is a quote by the Chief executive of the Rock Lobster industry, Darryl Sykes.
"The work that was done in the Leigh marine reserve showed that catch rates by a commercial fisherman working along the marine reserve boundaries were no greater, and were often less, than the catch rates of commercial fishermen working elsewhere across CRA 2. That work was published by McDiarmid, Kelly & co several years ago at a lobster conference in Key West, Florida. [with an updated analysis recently published "Coastal Management 30:153-166, 2002"]

The "spillover" benefit cannot be empirically demonstrated for lobsters - or for many other species. You have to remember that there is movement both ways across a line on a map - fish move inside the boundary, fish move back out again. The big argument here is really about the principles and purposes of the marine reserves Act and the proposed Bill - neither one of them is about fisheries management - reserves are intended to preserve and protect (marine biodiversity) for the purposes of scientific study. They are not, and were never intended to be fisheries management tools.

DOC claims fisheries management benefits only because they cannot answer the criticism about the exclusion of fishing and the reduction in the quality of fishing opportunity. DOC argues that reserves have this capacity to "enhance" the remaining fishing grounds because of 'spillover" - bullsh*t.

DOC argues increased egg production from rock lobsters inside reserves - hardly a major achievement given that the minimum legal size of rock lobsters in the North Island is set to allow between 2 and three years of egg production before capture. A marine reserve doesn't materially improve egg production in the context of overall stock abundance. Not that there is any direct link between egg production and subsequent abundance - environmental conditions and habitat factors seem to be the determining factors there."
Daryl

Any move to lock up the coast in reserves will inevitably lead to increased fishing effort in other areas. Without a corresponding reduction in catch rates, in open fishing areas, the quality of fishing will decline overall. It just doesnt make sense to claim reserves improve fishing. That is a lie.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2002 at 8:43am
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You guys are right - reserves are not a fisheries management tool. Arguing against the benefits of using them as a management tool will therefore get you nowhere with the Dept of Conservation.

Does anyone out there know on what basis pelagic fishing was eventually stopped at the Knights?  I understand it was a long court battle, but I have never been able to find out what teh reason adopted by the courts actually was.

Thanks and happy fishing for Xmas all

Reidfish

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote obald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2002 at 5:44pm
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In my opinion Mr Reidfish has emphasised one of the most telling points of these discussions for a while 'reserves are not a fisheries management tool. Arguing against the benefits of using them as a management tool will therefore get you nowhere with the Dept of Conservation'

This leads us in to what we need to be looking at now and that is strategy and tactics (I think that is where his reference to pelagics at the Knights was directed - am I right?). The perceived 'failure' of the recreational sector at the Knights and other locations is surely that we have been fighting the wrong battles or failing to speak in a language that DOC and its cronies understand or are even prepared to listen to. People who populate these boards and the people who are proposing Marine Reserves all over the show are clearly speaking a different language to each other - probably populating a different planet. Unfortunately we are not playing this game on an even playing field with stationary goalposts. It would appear that DOC decides the incline of the pitch and has the goalposts on trucks. It would appear to me there is little point just moaning about that (it's just the way it is) but we should be invistigating the best ways of countering their propositions.

I have laboured through DOC's Volkner Rocks Application (and sent my typed 'I do not agree' submission to Rotorua) and in the midst of its politically correct verbostiy there is very little real scientific evidence. Is this the way they always operate? I suspect so. Is there a forum where an opposition having proper evidence (if it exists) supporting their view can air that and get a fair and impartial hearing? Is there a mechanism whereby if there is no robust evidence on which to base a decsion, a decsion is not made until there is? (I suspect I know the answer to that one) Is there any way we can fight the upcoming battles in a different way from those that have gone before? - for if we do the same again the result is sure to be the same again.

I put the above questions forward as that  - genuine questions asking for suggestions on future (and probably new) strategy and tactics. I do not pretend to know the answer to any of them (except perhaps the last one!)

obald

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sunken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2002 at 5:12pm
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Hello guys

First time user, tho I have been following the forum for a year or so off and on.

I made a submission on the Volkners a while ago, and recieved a note from DOC saying that I should send 20 copies to somewhere or other. What is up here? I seem to recall Rick Pollack saying that they have 'lost', or shredded? a whole lot of submisions. This sounds like another tactic to wear down the opposition to anything that DOC wants.

Unfortunately I upgraded( or should that be up moneyed) my computer in the interim and have seemed to lost the submission, but it was along the lines Rick suggested in the Bayfisher magizine.

Here's to swimmin with bow legged women.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2002 at 7:14pm
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Hi all, I have heard a rumour that a reserve is also planned for Waiheke.  Is this true?

Cheers

Graham

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote 1000PA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2002 at 10:23pm
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Yea Graham, then they're going to put a reserve around the beehive. Only trouble is they're going to have to police that one as fishermen might get in there!

Ross

Fishing-4-all-NZ
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rockfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2002 at 8:07pm
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Might want to read this news article from my home state California, these closure areas are a big dealhttp://www.staronline.com/vcs/county_news/article/0,1375,vcs_226_1633313,00.html  They already are imposing emergency closures for rockfish/lingcod.  The sportsman typically pays for mismanagement.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Spina Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2003 at 3:48pm
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 hello all, nice place to live New Zealand but we have a disease called  D.O.C Now for the ones that havnt heard they are a GOVERMENT DEPARTMENT they drop poison all over the place to kill of the animals why not use some thing just as leathal to kill of the fishermen, MMM for lack of a better word we could call it reserve poison and quota poisoning and just to make the poor voting fools feel good about it we will make them buy a licence , Hell what sort of people we got running this place I always was taught that we had a say so tell me whos lost what??Cheers Dreemspina.
Dont waste your time trying to give me a hard time being in politics teaches one very quickly how to turn a deaf eye and a blind ear!
wheres my glasses cant find my hearing aids without them.
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