A Marine Reserve at Tiri?

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    Posted: 20 Nov 2002 at 10:40am
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Funny place to put a marine reserve wouldn't you say. A valuable fishing asset and safe anchorage only 7 miles from another marine reserve and 2 miles from a sewerage outfall. "Bizare" is how one of the local councillors describe the idea. The idea has the support of the Rodney District Council so it will probably go ahead.

What are your thoughts as I am too far in limbo to form an opinion yet.

What about other possible locations?

What will be the impact on Auckland anglers?

When will the bloody wind stop blowing!?

Look forward to your imput

Damian-THE CHARTER CONNECTION

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Murdoch Dryden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2002 at 11:32am
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can't comment on location of reserve, but stong supporter of the concept.  I believe small plentiful marine reserves strategically spaced to maximise their nursery potential is a sensible means of nurturing and growing our fishery stocks.   The numbers of crayfish and snapper at leigh must be beneficial for the local stocks.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote GrahamT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2002 at 11:46am
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Bloody weird  and mad  

OK I'm in favour of some marine reserves  but they should be spread further apart.

Within 20km  of another is crazy  and I suspect there will be a lot of aggro if the plan progresses

I prefer Parkinson to Alzheimer - I'd rather spill my beer than forget to drink it!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote darrellwho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2002 at 11:54am
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Lets get real, the biggest threat to marine life around the Tiri area is from the increasing number of trawlers that plunder the area, dumping what few species they dont take.  Recreational fishers will never impact upon the area as they do.   I agree wholeheartedly that we have to take steps to nurture the fish stock but which bright spark see's dad and son catching kawai off the beach as such a threat.?? non fishers, thats who.

Why not have a trial period where trawler/commercial exploitation is suspended(but not the likes of charter boats) and a ban on the taking of shellfish from the penninsular, perhaps that will provide the answer and be easier to police than a large reserve.  As this would fail to fatten Helen Clarks pockets, I expect to see the trawlers win out.

Dont rely on the Rodney Council to help, I attended the protest against the proposed sewage outfall(yes, waste product pumped into the Tiri Channel, supported by the same crowd that want a reserve).At that meeting, windsock Mayor LAW stated to the press and the 70 or so present that he would have the council revisit the issue at the next meeting.  Yeah right, the next statement was that the matter had been pulled from the agenda prior to any open discussion. DONT LET IT HAPPEN

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2002 at 11:56am
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Hi ya Murdoch...very valid point and I don't think you will find that anyone here that will take issue with your reasoning...the issues are as I see them;

1) are the proposed reserves indeed going to be "small"?...afterall DoC and the Greens have both said they want %20 of our coastline to be locked up in reserve status...now how do you think "they" will choose where the reserves are to be loccated? easy access for officials? resident fish stocks for study?...these also sound like places I like to go fishing!!....believe me when I say anglers will end up with limited opportunities when/if these reserves are installed!....considering a very very high percentage of our ocean is essentially a desert...you got it....inshore reefs and islands will be their tagets...guaranteed!

2) the speed and momentum those in "power' are steaming ahead with these proposed reserves/quota (mis)management /Aquaculture and several other issues...it seems "they" are throwing as much at us at once to act as a smoke-screen as to confuse and split the angler mandate! Public consulatation doesn't appear to be high on the agenda!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote KingfishSi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2002 at 12:38pm
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Hi guys

How many of these prats who want to put 20% of our coastline into marine reserves are fisherman? None, I bet!

If DoC and the Greens had their way the whole coastline would be made a marine reserve and there would be no recreational fishing allowed, full stop! Commercial fishing would still go full steam ahead because as it has been stated, this fattens Mr Helen Clark's pockets.

As far as council helping out... FORGET IT! My parent's went through years of struggles with the North Shore City Council with regards to the stormwater system. Only recently has this been upgraded in their area. At every council meeting it was the same story "we'll discuss this at the next meeting". Sounds like the Rodney Council is just as useless.

I reckon the only way to stop this is with a petition or protest or something, as I really don't think the government gives a toss what the little guys think.

Sure, marine reserves are a good thing for helping protect marine life and restocking sea life, but be fair and let the recreational guys have somewhere to fish!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2002 at 1:24pm
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If I wasn't a fisherman I would be all in favour of a marine reserve. I guess what that means is that I recognise the need for them. I bet they wish they had a few more in Nova Scotia.

BUT, lets put things into perspective. How many fish did we remove from that area last year. Personally, I didn't take many as I only fished there 3 or 4 times. On one of those days I didn't catch a thing, so that is 18 to 27 snapper tops. A long liner would catch more in one go than I would in 10 years. These guys are out fishing day after day. Sure they have a quota - but it's a damn sight more than the likes of Damian is going to take on his charter boat even.

I think a Marine Park, that limits the area to recreational users only is the way to go.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote KingfishSi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2002 at 1:34pm
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Good call Smudge

I fully agree with a marine park for recreational fishos!

We recreational fishos definately don't take as many fish as the trawlers and I would hope most people out there only take what they need and not enough to stock the freezer and feed the neighbourhood aswell.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote snickers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2003 at 10:48am
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Agreed.

Marine park for recreational types only.

I get out possibly twice a month with my father, and the last thing we need is to have to load up and drive (car or boat) for an age to get to the fishing grounds.  Tiri is perfect for us, especially in a smaller boat.

We never catch to much and only take enough to be able to eat fresh.  Possibly 4-5 snapper max between us.  From the boats I have seen returning to the Gulf Harbour ramp, none seem to have huge amounts of fish.  Just enough for a feed usually.  Get rid of the commercial guys out of the area.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote BlackLabel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2003 at 9:27pm
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Plenty of food for thought here.

I live on the peninsular too and have thought long and hard about the 3 proposals for the Tiri marine reserve.I don't have a boat but plan on getting one soon.For me, it will be a smallish boat(up to 15ft tinny or similar) which means the Whangaparaoa headlands,bays,reefs and Tiri and it's localised channels and foulground will be the area where I can safetly fish.

If a large portion of this area is taken away (remembering also the cable/no fish zones) then the small boat faternity are just not going to be able to access a decent feed in realtive safety.

Being a land based fisher at the moment, I see 2 of the 3 proposals would also stop people from fishing the rocks around a large portion of the peninsular. And thats crazy!

I support the establishment of marine reserves in some places.Tiri isn't one. I would prefer to see other methods of used to increase fish population such as decreasing the commercial quota for a start.The bag limits and minimum size can always be reviewed.The other negative ramifications of a reserve around Tiri and the headland are of course boat sales,chandlery,tackle and retail and charter operators. And of course, if people can't fish there then it just puts more pressure on other areas that may be a lot more unhealthy  from a fish stock point of view.

If there is such a "major" problem with the fisherie in this area(which there isn't) then why aren't we seeing a lot more support/incentive for private/govt establishment of farms such as the one at Pah Farm?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2003 at 10:55am
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Greast discussion guys - that's what this forum is for. Good to see Damian's open mind as a starter.  I've been away killing fish myself for a week, hence my belated participation.

Damian: "Funny place to put a marine reserve wouldn't you say" Well, the island is a reserve and then the underwater around it is not. Seems strange when you look at it that way too.  It is representative of the inner islands of the gulf, is accessible for the public (not all the public wants to fish), and forms part of a network.

Sewerage outflows: (info courtesy NZU)

"Sedimentation has been a major issue in the past with the sewage outfall into Whangaparaoa Passage, however the council has made substantial improvements - When the outfall was built in 1982 they discharging milliscreened sewage with a sediment load of 250 mg/litre. In 1994 they installed primary treatment (sedimentation) reducing sediment load to approximately 100 mg/litre. In 1998 secondary treatment was added, and the sediment load is down to 16 mg/litre - mostly biological rather than sewage particles."

Smudge: "Personally, I didn't take many as I only fished there 3 or 4 times."  It won't cause you too much distress not to go there then.

GrahamT: "OK I'm in favour of some marine reserves  but they should be spread further apart." Um, the point is that a network is better than isolated reserves. Fish spawn moves from one reserve and settles in another. The closer the better they all work I believe.

Darrylwho: "the increasing number of trawlers that plunder the area, dumping what few species they dont take.  Recreational fishers will never impact upon the area as they do."  Sorry Darryl, I suspect you underestimate the recreational catch in the gulf.  It is actualy quite huge too.  Let's not underestimate the recreational bycatch too -  do you have any info on how many of those small snapper you guys throw back live to be caught again.  How about a survey to count this guys?

Kerren: "are the proposed reserves indeed going to be "small"?"  Hopefully not. Larger reserves will be more efficient for the spawning and larval settlement and management and enforcement and access and study and easier for fishos to know where and where not to fish.  More big reserves means fewer small reserves around your favourite reefs. Your best bet is to go for option 3 on the NZU's proposal on Tiri, that way you include the most waterspace in one proposal, lest you lose it somewhere else.

Kerren: "inshore reefs and islands will be their targets...guaranteed!" Well, if that is the case then you have all the ammo in the world to oppose them already set down in the Marine Reserves Bill.  I quote section 7: "The purpose of this Act is to conserve indigenous marine biodiversity.... by preserving and protecting in marine reserves- (a) representative examples of the full range of marine communities and ecosystems that are common and widespread".  In fact, what I would encourage is an application for a large area of bare seabed off the west coast that is 10% of that typical coast and fishery area, and 15% of the bare seabed in the Hauraki Gulf (say lying between the Aahaa's and Great Barrier - starting at 40m depth only and deeper or maybe doubling teh size of teh no anchor zones for cables).  Such a proposal should get priority from DOC as it makes the overall reserve network more representative, it takes them faster towards the 10% target and is therefore politically acceptable. The only real opposition of course would be the commercial boys, who would want compensation, despite the reserve being to promote conservation of fishstocks and maintaining biodiversity, and therefore coming under the requirements of the Fisheries Act for the minister to decide on the basis of sustainability.

Black Label: "why aren't we seeing a lot more support/incentive for private/govt establishment of farms" That is well underway, but to protect the fish farms from taking more of YOUR fishing areas away from YOU, the govt has put their foot down and stopped all applications for now, until aquaculture management areas are defined by regional authorities (process going on now).  Sometimes the govt does help fishermen too.  It will be full steam ahead for fish farms when that process is concluded.

Black Label: "negative ramifications of a reserve ...are of course boat sales,chandlery,tackle and retail and charter operators."  Well, yeah, until you consider the increase on other sectors like dive gear sales, dive charters, boat sales from having a marine reserve.  and boat sale values will increase will they not if people are forced to buy bigger noats to go further afield?

OK, that'll do for now. Flame on boys, don't hold back with your opinions.  This is a great discussion.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Damo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2003 at 11:05am
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Some of you are missing the point about the Tiri proposal.

WE ALREADY HAVE 3 MARINE RESERVES ON THE RODNEY COASTLINE WITHIN 20 MILES FOR *#%& SAKE!!

One has a Marine Science Lab and another has the Marine Education Recreation Centre.  The other is classified as a marine park but still has a no take policy!

And lets not forget that the Telecom Cable area takes up over 50 km3 before it even gets pass Tiri. There are also other no fishing and no anchoring areas in the area and if the proposed reserve were to go ahead it would in therory shut down a major recreatioal fishing area used by hundreds of thousands every year.

There are also some outragious features in the new marine reserve proposal.

1. It is a shipping lane used by some 20000 ton ships and the Auckland     fishing fleet not to mention the thousands of recreational boaties that use it as a throughfare.

2. It has a sewer outfall in the area! Hardly a suitable feature for a marine reserve wouldn't you say!

3. The majority of the island is not suitable for inexpeienced divers or snorklers (if that's the word) as the area is mostly deep as is ravaged by tides of up to a knot.

4. The well established bird sanctuary could not handle any more traffic as it is being damaged by the hoardes that visit it now. Undo all the world beating ecolgy triumphs to please NZ Underwater. I think not!  

5. The Commercial Trawl Line backs right onto the proposed reserve and in fact is inside on some proposals!! Nice one!!

So get off the grass and have a look at the local chart of the area before trying to tell me it's a good idea! Like Big Clint said....

"Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining!"

 

Damian Clayton

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2003 at 1:33pm
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Reidfish = Is that you Murray?

Cheers

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2003 at 2:30pm
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Eh? Nup. Must be confusing me for some other Lorax.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Damo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2003 at 3:32pm
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Who is reidfish? Do you work for NZU?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2003 at 4:47pm
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No Damian, I don't.  I am a keen spearo who tends to support marine reserves that's all.  I figured that some readers of this forum may also want to read a variety of views on the topic rather than just other line fishermen.  Whilst I'd rather see MFish manage the fisheries at a reasonable level, in which case we wouldn't need reserves, I doubt this will happen.  I've also spent too much time in marine reserves to be able to say they are a bad thing.  I hope you make a presentation to NZU because your points are worthwhile discussing with someone in the know. 

Your latest points: 1. How many ships go through the channel there and are you saying you can;t have ships go through a reserve or you have a better proposed location? 2. What effect does that sewer outfall have (compared to urban/rural runoff) now that the filtration is in place? 3. Reserves are not just for human use and enjoyment, but there are still areas which are quite suitable dive spots 4. DOC will need to manage access to parts of the island so does that make it less worthwhile? 5. Are commercial trawl lines fixed forever and wouldn't you like to see them reduced/isn't this a chance to react to the proposal themselves? 

But tell NZU, not me.  Go to a public meeting or organise one yourself and ask them.  You may find that the people organising this are not idiots, and may have considered your points already and have valid reasons despite what you see as an obviously illogical proposal.

On another point, as a charter operator, you should be able to give us a fair estimate of the recreational bycatch - including fish too small - that are thrown back and unlikely to live.  Any idea? 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2003 at 9:53pm
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Damien , Reidfish doesn't "work" for anyone to my knowledge - don't know how he earns a living. He is a bit outnumbered here but he is a game little bugger for sticking up for himself and his views.

THe decision re the reserve is a forgone conclusion - it will happen and there is sweet bugger all anyone can do to stop it. I do not really agree with it being where it is (one of my best spots and so accesible) but I think the decision was made long ago. Good luck with the battle for what it is worth.

Russ

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Barrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2003 at 5:36am
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I have emailed the self apointed gods and they (of course) havnt given me the respect of an reply.
This may upset some in here but I belive that if the gods really want another reserve in the area then surly Little Barrier would be of greater use as it is more remote and we are shot if we sink and have to swim to our safty and land on it. It is less accesable to the average small boat. But I also question the need for more reserves while still allowing the trawlers in the gulf at all. Lee at Sandy Bay at the top of the Cocomandel (he dose the air fills there and is the HOF person) has a patition going at the moment to restrict the use of trawlers, I suggest that anyone in the area call in and see him.
OK ...Im ready ...start fireing shots at me for the above suggestion.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2003 at 11:01am
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Ok here goes. Little barrier is my favorite fishing spot in the gulf. I fish there a lot more than I do at Tiri. In fact I havent fished Tiri in over two years

However I do think little barrier is a more apropreate place to have a reserve than Tiri. Yes it would be hard to police but still its remote and wouldnt get the traffic to spoil it.

Shoot me down if you want

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2003 at 11:07am
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I haven't fished in tight on Little Barrier for over 5 years.....I have no problems with making the immediate area surrouding the Island a marine reserve....say 2 clicks out from the high tide mark...sweet!!

Like bushie said, that would make more sense than a reserve at Tiri!
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