Braid to trace (again) .

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    Posted: 06 Dec 2009 at 6:54pm
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New guy here and my first post (with a question)
 
I am very new to Softbait fishing but do wonder what the fuss is over KNOTS when it comes to "braid to trace"
 
Why not just drop a decent  quality swivel in between braid and terminal trace?
 
Surely its easier to tie a knot from braid to swivel instead of braid to mono (or fluorocarbon) than it is to do a tricky complicated  braid to trace line knot?
 
Thoughts please.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Cigar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2009 at 8:28pm
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Because a swivel will destroy the guides on my rod!
 
I use a fluoro trace of about 1m, and have about 30cm hanging from the rodtip when casting.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote BBFisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2009 at 8:41pm
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I'm rubbish with knots and a good double Uni knot is actually too easy to tie!!  Once you have had a go at it a few times you will be away laughing!  I also reckon with braid direct to mono/fluro you feel a lot more and apparently the turning and twisting of the swivel can ruin the desire action you ate trying to achieve with the soft bait!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Parrot Fish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2009 at 12:25am
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a 5 turn surgeon knot will do. simple enought to tie too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote zhuter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2009 at 7:08pm
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Originally posted by BBFisha BBFisha wrote:

I'm rubbish with knots and a good double Uni knot is actually too easy to tie!!  Once you have had a go at it a few times you will be away laughing!  I also reckon with braid direct to mono/fluro you feel a lot more and apparently the turning and twisting of the swivel can ruin the desire action you ate trying to achieve with the soft bait!
 
Cant imagine anything more rigid than a metal swivel so doubt there is loss of feel ...and swivels are designed to eliminate twist so dont  think there is any loss of  action. 
 
As a fly fisherman I have a pretty good range of knots at my disposal but my point is why use a complex line to line knot if it aint needed and a simple / quick  knot will do the business.
 
In regards to casting and dragging swivels thru' the guides.. I dont intend to do either with a SFB rig on my overhead reels.  Will think differently about my "spinners" though.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Falco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2009 at 7:16pm
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Originally posted by zhuter zhuter wrote:

Originally posted by BBFisha BBFisha wrote:

I'm rubbish with knots and a good double Uni knot is actually too easy to tie!!  Once you have had a go at it a few times you will be away laughing!  I also reckon with braid direct to mono/fluro you feel a lot more and apparently the turning and twisting of the swivel can ruin the desire action you ate trying to achieve with the soft bait!
 
Cant imagine anything more rigid than a metal swivel so doubt there is loss of feel ...and swivels are designed to eliminate twist so dont  think there is any loss of  action. 
 
As a fly fisherman I have a pretty good range of knots at my disposal but my point is why use a complex line to line knot if it aint needed and a simple / quick  knot will do the business.
 
In regards to casting and dragging swivels thru' the guides.. I dont intend to do either with a SFB rig on my overhead reels.  Will think differently about my "spinners" though.
Most connections are simple quick knots once you are familiar with them.
As a fly fisherman you wouldnt use a swivel to create a tapered leader,or connect your backing to flyline etc...
Fishing softbait/plastic in shallow/medium water is about finese,adding a swivel would detract from that. 
as dead as dead is
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kezza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2009 at 7:19pm
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the knot I tie takes 23seconds last time I timed it....that includes cutting the trace off the spool and trimming tag ends....never failed....only 1 knot

with a swivel I'll be tieing 2......it will be bulky and unnecessary

the ability to wind the trace on the reel is a good thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Blue Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2009 at 7:26pm
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Originally posted by Kezza Kezza wrote:

the knot I tie takes 23seconds last time I timed it....that includes cutting the trace off the spool....never failed....only 1 knot

with a swivel I'll be tieing 2......it will be bulky and unnecessary

the ability to wind the trace on the reel is a good thing.


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yip what he said and I use a knot similar to and albright but with no tied doubles very slim very simple and very strong.Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Firey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2009 at 9:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote trickytune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2009 at 9:14pm
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BA can you enlighten more please. I use a modified albright and find it fast and strong just a tad bulky. :ooking for slimmer but still fast. Ya
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Blue Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2009 at 9:33pm
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Originally posted by trickytune trickytune wrote:

BA can you enlighten more please. I use a modified albright and find it fast and strong just a tad bulky. :ooking for slimmer but still fast. Ya


thgis from the albright thread hope it helps, it sure does me.Wink

doubles in braid are as simple as an spiders hitch, why be different to what has been used for years,
bimini is more for your game fishing, a bimini is designed to stretch and act like a spring so there is no real presure of the twist pulling up, now how much spring is there in braid.....

Ok the double is made in the braid, now I dont make a double as such, in other words I just fold it and hello theres a double is it not.

I then do the exact same with the mono, now take the braid and go through the loop of the mono......
wind the braid around the mono [both strands] do it about 6 times you are working your way back up the mono......
now take the end of the braid [where its folded over] and go back to the end [loop] of the mono and go through it the opposite to how you went through at the start,

wet it out and then pull it up holding both doubles [which are not doubles] she all pulls up nice
now when its all up and neat trim her up, it goes through the guides no worries at all
braid is a real arse as its so thin to get it pulled up nice ....

I have never had one break I use this for tieing real heavy leader i.e 400lb to 80lb mono it works very well indeed, infact I have shown a few on here how to use it and they have not gone back to b/s back to back knots, not that they dont work, this so much easier
anyways like I said have never had one part you just got to be paitient with them and when your onto it takes less then 30seconds to tie one off.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Screaming Reels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2009 at 9:37pm
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Originally posted by Kezza Kezza wrote:

the knot I tie takes 23seconds last time I timed it....that includes cutting the trace off the spool and trimming tag ends....never failed....only 1 knot

with a swivel I'll be tieing 2......it will be bulky and unnecessary

the ability to wind the trace on the reel is a good thing.


What knot do you use.I am crap at knots also me personally only know the uni knot i use it for everything but i would love to find a website that shows you various knots for different occasions.I guess if you try a new thing and do it a few times it will become second nature.
The Car Doctor Mangakino
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LEVCAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2009 at 9:41pm
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swivels greatly affect the presentation of the lure when your working it, and also add as an attractant to coutas...   i use the improved allbright know most of the time - or other wise a back to back uni tied in a doubled braid end. (done with a blimini twist).

easy as, and much better than buggering around a swivel
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote tas-tackle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2009 at 11:58pm
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Back to back uni with the braid doubled... never let go... YET

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kezza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2009 at 6:40am
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Originally posted by Snapper Shagger Snapper Shagger wrote:

Originally posted by Kezza Kezza wrote:

the knot I tie takes 23seconds last time I timed it....that includes cutting the trace off the spool and trimming tag ends....never failed....only 1 knot

with a swivel I'll be tieing 2......it will be bulky and unnecessary

the ability to wind the trace on the reel is a good thing.


What knot do you use.

I dunno what it's called mate.....but here tis:

fold braid to form a 'double'......pass mono up through middle of 'doubled' braid....turn/wrap the mono around both legs of the braid around 12 times.....pass mono back down through the middle of the 'doubled' braid ensuring its goind back the same way it went in....tighten/moisten/tighten...trim tags ends......nice reliable slim connection....I use it for mono to mono connections also for straylining....just requires less turns....




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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Blue Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2009 at 6:56am
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exactly what I am using, I do less turns but thats upto whom ever is tieing it, its funny there were a few who said this knot does not work, have used it for years, simple and quick is the ticket.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote green guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2009 at 7:40am
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i use the same knot as well so easy to tie and flow's threw the guides mint
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Firey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2009 at 9:25pm
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Hang on a minute BA you wrapped the braid around the mono and kezza wrapped the mono around the braid. Does it matter? Trying to wrap heavier mono around braid is a tad difficult so im thinking the other braid around the mono.
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Far Quirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2009 at 9:37pm
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The knot used by Kezza & BA looks like a Yucatan.  Its a good looking slim knot, but I used to tie it after making a loop on the end of the braid with a spider hitch or 5-turn surgeon's loop knot.  The Yucatan rarely let me down, but the loop knots often failed.  After reading some stuff about a guy up in Warkworth who has a knot-testing machine, I've changed to a 5-turn surgeon's loop after doubling the braid, but no loop in the braid.  Suits me fine, & is quick to tie.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kezza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2009 at 9:38pm
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"Trying to wrap heavier mono around braid is a tad difficult"

Heavier?.....like what mate?.....and I don't think it would matter really?.....i've done it with 100lb trace to 50lb braid......all good there.....the "wraps" aren't tight as such, just loosely wound up the 'doubled' braid.....
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