Gamefishing from a sailboat

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    Posted: 20 Nov 2009 at 11:29pm
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I would really like to try sailboat trolling one day.  (I have this feeling we are wandering off course so moderators feel free to stick this in another thread)  I've read some of the writeups of that sailboat gamefisher that is based up in the islands and with the right rig, setup and crew with some experience, the problems of the sailboat platform could be worked around. 
 
Phecda how are your outriggers set up?  Have you got some photos of your rig?  I think you deserve extra points for fishing a sailboat single handed on gamefish.  Single handed is challenging even from a vessel designed for gamefishing. 
 
I do think it a little odd that a lot of big boat guys try their damndest to get the cleanest, clearest possible wake, while at the same time many small boat owners worry they're not pushing enough wake.  As far as raising them is concerned, I really do reckon the typical small inboard diesel engine found in a sailboat and the clean wake of a displacement hull is as good a fish raising combination as any - so long as you can find the fish (which of course being stuck at sailboat speeds disadvantages you compared to the tactical speed of a vessel that can cruise at 18 to 20+kts).  As Roddy mentioned in an earlier post, some guys don't think the characteristics, noise etc of an outboard motor are as fishy.  Trailerboats/outboard boats do however allow those on a more average kind of budget to go gamefishing which is why they're so popular.  It doesn't matter if an inboard flybridge boat is a superior fish raiser and/or fishing platform if you can't afford it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote obald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2009 at 6:40am
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Dustin suggested that his most recent post in the 'Legend Enki' thread was a bit off topic. For a change he is right.

So we'll start a new thread for what should be an amusing diversion.

Dustin's original post can kick it off.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Boulder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2009 at 11:00am
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Dustin are you asking about a yacht using its motor or in its more purest form by just useing the sails?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2009 at 11:08am
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Spent a couple of weeks fishing out of Waihau Bay years ago in an Elliot 5.9. 20ft cruiser/racer (more racer than cruiser). Only used sails, and it blew 20 - 25knts nearly the whole time. We were out doing 40 mile days while all the fizz boats couldn't get out due to the rough weather. Best fun was when a fish struck and you had to round up into the wind and get the boat l'ocked in irons', whilst watching line dissapear off your reel. Only caught a few large Albicore and Kingi's, but enough to convince me that whilst it was sort of fun, it wasn't any way to catch XOS tuna or marlin. We probably would have been spooled before we got the boat organised.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dead Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2009 at 12:06pm
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Growing up my family were into sailing rather than power boats or fishing but being in the tropics we still trolled a line.  It was very successful and accounted for Wahoo, Baracuda, Mahi Mahi along with the normal tropical by catch.

Lures were high tech - smith jigs!

The reel and line was the key.  400lb mono line with a long stainless trace.

The reel was a fixed mounted alvey from memory and could have been used as an anchor winch.  This solved the problem of trying to slow the boat down while worrying about line capacity.  We did straighten more than a few hooks and retrieved a few jaws less fishEmbarrassed

This was from a 36ft steel cruiser which isn't my choice of gamefishing platform but fish is always a nice addition to the table!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2009 at 1:29pm
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Tagit - the E5.9 would benefit by not having a backstay.

You'd need a crew who really knew what they were doing if you trolled under sail and a big marlin hit. All that white stuff to deal with.

I reckon the harmonics of the keel and rudder going through the water would raise fish. It's just that the layout and equipment of a sailboat makes fighting the fish so much harder.

Over to the forum's resident expert, Kerren Packer .. oops silly of me, I meant Phecda.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Catchelot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2009 at 1:37pm
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Just my thoughts here, but would the speed of a yacht be good enough to get the lures working?
 
I reckon the lures won't pop, splash and bubble trail, etc...
 
So do you need to think of the slower lures like kona heads that wobble from side to side in a swimming manner. Or even big bibbed minnows like Rapalas and maybe Halco giant tremblers, etc?? 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2009 at 1:48pm
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Catchelot - the Elliot in 20 - 25 knts gave us enough speed for a range of lures. If it had been nice calm days we would have been snapper fishing. For tuna you can tow bibbed minnows (Rapala's etc) and they work well down to quite slow speeds. Don't know if Marlin like them though.
Bender - the crew was me, my mate, (and somedays his 5yr old son). With only 2 up, it was chaos, but enjoyable chaos. The days when his son was on board (could sail at 5yrs old) he would hold the tiller etc whilst we organised the boat and rod/fish. We are definitely not talking light tackle fishing though. We made a custom rocket launcher/trolling rod holder to go across the transom. It was a tidy bit of work, but looked hardcase with a bunch of big rods/reels prodtruding out the back of the Elliot. If you had to work around a backstay and were trolling under sail, I would think it could get very difficult on a decent fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote BBFisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2009 at 2:24pm
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A little different to what you guys are talking about but not totally off topic!  I have a mate who has spent the last 6 months sailing from NZ thru Tonga, Samoa, Fiji and Vanuatu to Australia.  He trolls basically the entire way, trying to pick up small tuna etc for food.  On the most recent passage between Vanuatu and Australia they got themselves in to a 90kg+ Yellowfin on a bungy cord setup with a lure attached, then hauled it in by hand to the duckboard and then had to hogtie it around the tail to get it on board.  A few cheeky pictures and the beast was released.  On the same passage they got a Short Billed Spearfish (I think I got that right) again on the bungy setup and again released!!  All this while probably doing 5 - 7knots under full sail.  Earlier in the year we got a MahiMahi on a skirt on a Stella 20000 + T Curve, doing a solid 6-7 knots, full sails up and the gullwing in action and no chance of beating up in to the wind to slow down, just had to drag that sucker in.  The MahiMahi was a bit tired after that but didnt really matter as she was on the dinner menu :)  We have caught Skippies and Albacore up north under sail on rod/reel.  Can get pretty hectic when both reels start peeling line, you have to turn a 40ft+ yacht up in to the wind, sailis flapping, sea tossing you from side to side...fun times!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kezza 1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2009 at 9:28pm
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theres a cat at tuts thats got outriggers. duno if it goes out ever or not jus always see it. think its a wright 4400 or sumthing like that. john going (?) got a few marlin from tuts last year in his yacht seagoing good size if i remember right too. hardcase watching a big ass yacht backup to the weighstation
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mangre 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2009 at 9:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phecda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2009 at 1:39pm
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Originally posted by dustin dustin wrote:

Phecda how are your outriggers set up?  Have you got some photos of your rig? 
 
Since you ask; I dont care to push sailboat aspects even though they are Very Clearly The Absolute Best Thing since sliced bread LOLConfused (in fact I believe the lack of wake/noise disadvantages yachts severely)
 
I dont really use them now. The outriggers consisted of 4m surf-casting rods with proper release clips mounted in fixed rod-holders at the appropriate angle. Perhaps 30deg. The angle was chosen so they dont submarine at "normal" angles of heel. But this was far from ideal: the windward rigger will likely be near-verticle (or 60deg+) and the lee rigger about horizontal, except downwind of course. Windage on the line from the high rigger means it will not have the separation the rigger was there for! So more often than not I had to adjust towing distances to prevent foul-ups, which is no fun when it might take 15mins to unwind 2 lines. The most exciting part of this process, is that for 15mins you're hoping you DONT catch anything. More lately, I just stuck the outside rods in the near-horizontal "rigger holders", only "5ft riggers" but never mind I'm only looking for separation to prevent foul-ups.
 
Nowadays I'm usually happy to run 2 or 3 lures for several reasons; Roddy recommended it with respect to trailerboats or shorthanded; I got away with towing 5 lures single-handed for a while, but then a bad season of foul-up after foul-up convinced me this was stupid, just as Roddy had said; I can't handle multi-hookups on large fish, though that's a handing (sic) issue not a yacht issue. There is another reason for runnng fewer lures (to do with testing methodology) but it would just run right past some of the ex-spurts here.
 
A yacht certainly has a quiet wake (approximating none) but I dunno 1) Dolphins find me from afar, am I really disadvantaged attracting marlin I don't know? 2) launch wakes at best are a Great Attractor and at the least do no harm. 3) expect to troll anywhere from 3kn to 7 or 8kn depending on wind, or say 5kn on economical motor (1litre/hour? Embarrassed fuel that isLOL)
 
A yacht can certainly back-up, but only at a few knots in calmish weather, at least for me (perhaps 5kn or so backing straight downwind). Turning around and chasing is usually impossible because of the mast rigging everywhere. I sail on jib-only (rolls up in seconds) unless it's very calm and needs the mainsail. It is no fun, believe me, (or perhaps it is) getting a hook-up and THEN having to stow the mainsail before taking the rod, a process that might take 5mins, in this case only on 50's. But that's confusing sails with short-handed, I imagine every short-hander has the short-hander issues regardless of boat type.
 
I really appreciate discussions of lures, not that I believe half of it of course LOL, but that it's hard to trial as many things as a "normal" spread does or even whether it's appropriate to my speeds, not to mention what the hell a "3rd-wake is" I'm sure I wake up more times than that Shocked. On those days of trolling 70nm or so with not a jot, I comfort myself with the thought that, if marlin/yellowfin were easy, it would could just be boring SleepyLOL
 
Cheers. Beggared if I know. 
 
(Using surf-casting rods for riggers are crap as far as riggers go, coz they bend more than <censored>, however they have the advantage of not breaking when a large gust puts the whole shimozzal underwater!)
 
The open transom of most modern yachts seemingly lends itself to hauling stuff like marlin straight into the cockpit. Except for the "minor nuisance" there's a stuffing great tiller in the way! Personally, I envy all those shots of handling the marlin alongside, which is impossible with my high topsides, rigging, or whatever. I have a yacht because that's what I do, not because it is best for fishing.
 
Ermmm..a catamaran sailboat would suffer none of these issues apart from low-wake, which even it might have at the reported speeds of catamarans.
 
Unless there's some compelling reason otherwise, such as a Tiagra 50 and not much line Wink, I prefer to lie-ahull with a drift speed of perhaps 1~2kn. This may cause a storm but, largely due to my circumstances, I regard "hauling in a fish" as quite different from backing-up on them, in regards to line-class. Not that either is "illegal", just a different type of fishing?
 
Referring to Boulder's valid comment, I have at times started my engine in idle when I know marlin are about, or indeed just motored if there is insufficient wind. I do not have the extensive experience (statistics) required to say if it makes a difference. I believe that runnng straight over the damn things is reported to make a difference Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phecda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2009 at 2:36pm
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Originally posted by Bender Bender wrote:

Over to the forum's resident expert,
Bender! Is it true you once owned a Mullety! (a sailboat named Waitomo). Were you drunk ALL the time?
At least I only sailed on Waitomo between AK and Kawau, where there is a good excuse to not catch marlin, except perhaps for Blacks somewhere?
LOL Cheers. Just to announce it again, Bender is a "closet yachtie".
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote dustin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2009 at 12:55am
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Thanks guys for all the contributions.  This is really interesting stuff especially thinking about the practicalities involved.  I wonder would there be any mileage for boat builders in developing a sailboat that is more fishing friendly, would more yachties start fishing if their vessels were better set up for it, would gamefishers on a budget even consider switching to something that was more economical... It would be a lot of fun to have sailboat tournaments or a sailboat division in fishing tournaments, stuff like that. 
 
Reading through I think there are kind of two threads in this discussion - (1) catching fish for dinner on passage and (2) how to chase fish as effectively as possible from a sailboat.  (1) is fairly simple and I think anyone with suitably heavy tackle (deck winch, bungee etc) and a small enough lure that he wouldn't get into trouble would find it easy enough to catch skipjack, small dorado etc. 
 
(2) is more interesting.  Boulder, I'd like to listen to opinions/experiences of both gamefishing under sail only and with both sail and engine.  I think if you're going for something fairly big it's probably going to be best to troll with the motor, which would also enable more precise positioning on structure, bait and so on (incidentally the best way to work an area with lures is often in sailboat style tacks but I agree you would not want to have your mainsail up unless it could be reefed quickly and if the boom did not get in the way), but deploying the jib could get you an extra knot or two which would be useful for ground coverage and would add a little to lure action.  
 
Lures and spread selection would be very interesting.  Phecda you are really doing it the hard way fishing short handed... as I mentioned before.  I wonder though if you had more crew how many lines could it be practical to run.  One thing you'd need to be careful of with outriggers is that they don't hit the water when the boat heels over but I guess that would only happen if the mainsail was deployed and then you would probably not have your riggers in fishing position anyway.  I'd think about using as stiff bamboos I could find, stuck into clamp-on rod holders angled out for the best combination of height and spread.  It would totally be possible to stiffen the riggers with a stay - no shortage of attachment points forward on rail stanchions and such. 
 
Trolling at slow speed has its own little quirks almost like trolling at high speed although fortunately there is less pressure on the gear.  The lack of speed can be got around to some extent by using appropriate lures.  After reading that Damon Olsen article that Wanabe mentions there seems little doubt marlin will hit swimming plug and popper type lures but the hook arrangement needs to be modified to get better hookups.  The pakula dojo lures are designed to work at that kind of speed anyway and should be really useful.  Skirted lures would need some radical tuning - aggressive head shapes, light heads, lightweight skirts, probably free swinging rigs and as light leader as you would dare.  I wonder if a kona head with a styrofoam insert skirted with a metallic blue heavy plastic bag would work!!!  (I can experiment with stuff like this if any yachtie out there fancies giving it a go.) 
 
Leaving the question of lures aside though, I was just thinking that a lot of yachts can be run at live bait speed and maybe this could be the best way for a yacht fisherman to hook into a really nice fish.   You would not need to worry so much about trolling speed, you need fish only one rod and would have a bit of time to get ready for the fight as the fish eats the bait. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phecda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2009 at 11:35am
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On a typical 35ft yacht the cockpit is small and probably only room for 2 going hell-for-leather. However, the advantage of a small cockpit on a heel is that you can wedge yourself in somewhere.  When I've been two-handed, we assigned one guy to each side's rods, the autopilot (even throughout the fight) being the "3rd hand". My engine controls happen to be right at the stern, which helps. I also have a 360degree rudder, which is an immense help when reversing. This is not usual on most boats. 
 
I see no reason not to tow 5 lures, subject to enough crew to handle it as with any boat.
 
My yacht can do 3~5kn directly downwind with NO SAILS in a stiff breeze. And since a launch has at least as much windage (and not much underwater), I dont see why they cant do that too with just enough power for steerage. Off-topic perhaps,  but with fuel prices I dont see why they wouldn't troll at slower speeds, given suitable lures of course.
 
On (1), yachts have no trouble catching tuna etc on voyages with the mentioned bungy cord/400lb mono handline. This is useful because the other crew members, undoubtedly yachties, think they are in an F1 race and just the thought of slowing down for a moment is anathema to themLOL
"I wanna put my line out"
"But Chris, we already have enough fish and the fridge is full already"
"Doesn't matter. I wanna put my line out"
..."SLOW DOWN!"
"But Chris, we're on a set course and that's a nuisance..."
 
More controversially (perhaps), I believe that even the wake of a yacht causes more "noise" than all the "thunderboxes" one could reasonably tow?
 
Even more controversially(perhaps) is that "difficulty" is worth pursuing! What do you do when 37kg line becomes "boring"? You go to lighter line, to make things more Difficult, that's what!
 
I regard sportfishing as continuously trying to do something more difficult or with greater odds than the individual has acheived before. Could be larger fish, more fish, lighter gear, unsuitable boats, it's all interesting and certainly a personal challenge (even if someone else has done it before).
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JimmyTheWhip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 9:16am
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Hey mate do you know who this is ? I'm looking to set up a game fishing blue water cruising Cat to take to the islands and up to indonesia. 
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