Online Patition - foreshore and sea bed

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Online Patition - foreshore and sea bed
    Posted: 24 Jul 2003 at 9:30am
Kerren View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2003 at 10:09am
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paTITion yeah go boys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2003 at 5:13pm
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Good stuff kerren,  lots of support coming in.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2003 at 8:59pm
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Oh hell, don't tell me we've all agreed on someting for once.  Even I signed it!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 9:41am
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Signed up, checked my number and 5 mins later there were another 1000's signatures on top of mine.

Damn that thing has momentum.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 9:49am
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just to stir things up.....

ahem.....Reid (aka sparring partner)....can you tell me what the point of having access to the foreshore and seabed will be if "we" are not going to be able to use it recreationally anyway???

While we are at it lets cremate the Marine Reserves Bill just to make sure that NZers have unrestricted access to all parts of the coast/ocean!

"fire in the hole"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 10:47am
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'We' being?

Snorkellers, scuba divers, swimmers, picnic-ers, kayakers, those probably 75% of people who use the ocean and foreshore but don't extract from it?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 11:03am
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"we" being fisher folk, shellfish gatherers, dog walkers, horse riders, 4wd'ers, kayak fishers, spear fishers etc etc

Or another way to define "we" would be average kiwis!

Where did you get that 75% figure from?....can picnic-ers not also be fishers (read: nasty extractive users) on a different day?.. or once you decide to host a picnic that is your lot?....hmmmmm...your stat is most laughable LJ.

nice try Long John but next time try actually using bait on your hooks mate ...perhaps Reid can give you a lesson in "baiting up"

shucks we are even hosting a seminar covering the very basics of fishing....should I book you in?...

please accept the above as friendly banter John and basically BS on my part.....hoping that you are not going to go "off the bite" as quickly this time....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 11:07am
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John,

So you mean the 75% that have no respect for it. Leave their rubbish behind. Let their dogs kill the wild life.

Lets have it so 100% can use it as they wish

 

Bring it on

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 11:43am
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When are we going to all start seeing each other as equals in this bloody country???

All this treaty BS that is still going on... nobody that was around back then is around now so why can't everyone just get over it and get on with it???

We're privelleged to live in such a beautiful country so why can't we f'ing enjoy it and be able to go where we wish???

That's my 2 cents worth!

BTW - That petition is doing the rounds nicely... I received it 5 times yesterday from people I know outside this forum.
Keep knockin', nobody's home.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 12:02pm
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I think it means that when the Maori stirrers (as opposed to your average nice bloke on the street Maori bloke) ...

try and claim the entire coastline as a Taiapure or Mataitai reserve for their own benefit to plunder (refer recent night stranding up north of blokes with several hundred paua claiming they are collecting kai moana with a permit from local iwi)...

then we will have a hell of a lot of coastline on which to  sneak our fish back onto dry land!

It really bugs me when I look at the paper and find myself shaking my head and saying "f*cking Maoris!", when what I should be saying is "these f*cking stirrers!".  I know mots Maori are typical decent people, but they need to control the stirrers.  This labour govt will go down for this seabed fiasco.

 

But anyway back to the topic at hand.

 

What's the point of having access to just another pirce of coastline with mediocre fishing? Who is really that concerned about access to places where there is only one fish for every five there used to be?  Might as well fish under the harbour bridge, it's just as good as almost anywhere else.  If it's all going to be fished to one baseline level, which most kiwis consider to be a pathetic remnant of what was once plentiful seas, then why do you care if you can or canot get to one particular spot?  How will you feel when your kids ask for $50 so they can dive in the local marine reserve to get access through the water to pay off someone who you already support on the dole?  What was the question again?

A guy at work here said Mt Taranaki was given back to Maori for their Kaitiaki (guardianship). And now, of course, it costs heaps to walk up it and they harass you on 4 wheel motorbikes if you don't pay.   Nice, eh?  Love that as a kiwi.  Having done a small bit of work and been involved in a small part of a treaty settlement process for Tainui, I feel pretty pretty f*cken 'fantastic' seeing them buy speculative land developments in Australia, the Warriors, a casino, an elitist college, new merc's, tribal infighting, and how much goes to the average maori in Huntly?  F* all.  I'm surprised the South Africans who now live in NZ are remaining so quiet, having seen country after country be given back to control of the indigenous people i africa and fall over one by one.  Reverting, allowing, or facilitating tribalism can only ever lead to destruction of all that modern society stands for.  Tribalism, by its very nature will always end up corrupt, and the only way to change a corrupt tribal structure is through violent means.  This government is allowing a tribalist structure become an adjunct to a socialist democracy, and it is now seeing the results - the hand will always keep coming out, and nothing will ever come back from tribal societies.  Look at the Pacific: Fiji, Solomons, etc.

OK, finished my rave now. What was the question again?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 12:21pm
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It always seems to be the same few that are the sh*t stirrers. Unfortunately out pathetic government gives in and pays these bastards huge amounts of OUR money so they can have their own way. If these bastards were put in charge, this country would be exactly the same as the Solomons, corrupt as hell and basically rooted!

I hope Labour goes down over this too! I don't know why anyone would be stupid enough to vote for this pack of w**kers in the first place... there are monkeys with more intelligence that these inbreds.
Keep knockin', nobody's home.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 12:27pm
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Well said Reidfish, behind you 100%.  My wife has ties to the mongrels killing each other down Whakatane way, and quite frankly she is embarrassed.  I have suggested it is about time New Zealanders of Maori descent that have worked hard for what they have, stand up and tell the others to pulll their heads in, and yes hopefully this socially engineering by stealth Labour Government will fall over this issue.  My only worry is who will replace them.  Heavy sigh.

Have a good weekend

Cheers

Graham Hansen

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 12:37pm
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a great man once said

"Oh hell, don't tell me we've all agreed on someting for once."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 1:07pm
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Whoah there Kezza. Was refering solely to the access to waterfront issue. If I wander down to the local beach (the one where theoretically 'we' could lose our rights of access), I don't see many people fishing. Most would be walking the dog or building a sandpit for the kids or whatever. In fact, I reckon about 75% of them would be involved in these non-extractive activities. This is where I got my laughable stat from- I made it up . Just like that. I might stick by it too.

I went off the bite last time because I had a revealation.That whole thing about 30% of recreational kingfish catch being between 65 and 75 cm made me realise that you guys(by that I mean forum contributors) are in a very small minority ie: recreational line fishers who have at least a vague understanding of the issues of overfishing etc and are willing to limit their take  ie self imposed size and bag limits. Then someone else chimes in that 15%? of kingies inspected at boat ramps are undersize. And no-one says a word. No-one pipes up that "yes, this is an issue that needs to be addressed among reco fishers".

See Kerren, you seem a pretty smart guy but, to me at least, you seem to have made up your mind. It's all the fault of the commercials and those greenies are all sandal wearing bastards,. And that's that. And nothing that anyone can say or any fact that you are presented with or any persuasive argument is gonna change that.

So we end up not with a discussion forum but a shouting session where we all sneer at each other from opposing sides of the battlelines. I don't see the point

Hope you find that worm juicier than the last

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 1:41pm
Kerren View Drop Down
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Nice one Long-John, welcome back,

"nothing that anyone can say or any fact that you are presented with or any persuasive argument is gonna change that."

I have to disagree!....I think you will find that I will and often do listen to facts, others aguments and have changed my position numerous times becuase of such....that is what learning and experience is all about isn't it?

by your own admission you say that you "make up" stats to embellish your view point and are willing to stick by it?....whose one eyed??....anyway LJ I am affraid that this type of "fact" isn't going to cut the mustard...convince me why I should represent your argument in this case?...

"75% of beach users are non extractive"...Long John 2003

This is a real issue, why not present real stats and facts?

"persuasive argument"....well that is as subjective as you can get....almost oxymoronic in nature.

"So we end up not with a discussion forum but a shouting session where we all sneer at each other from opposing sides of the battlelines. I don't see the point"

I guess it would be easier and much nicer if we all just agreed on the everything aye?.....well that is why I created this "two cents" topic, so we can "scrap" it out on issues that anyone feels compelled enough to make a stand on.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 2:01pm
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Hmmmm, I get the feeling I ain't doing too well here. Still, must soldier on....

O.K, O. K.I like to think I have a fairly open mind over matters concerning the sea as, while it's a few residents poorer for my efforts, I also see the damage that's being done and would like to see it remedied. My opinions therefore are fairly fluid and tend to change as new arguments or theories come to light. I can entertain both sides of the argument. At the moment I think the Barrier reserve , for example, is a stellar idea but would be quite willing to alter that veiw if someone could give sound reasons as to why it is not.

But I get the feeling that a lot of people on both sides of the "To reserve or not to reserve" question cannot. Their opinions are set in stone. So Kerren, could you ever see yourself changing your mind on your stance on such matters given enough evidence contrary to your veiw presently?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 2:10pm
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Hhhhhhhhhhhmmm, The force is strong with this one, Kerren.

Learn to open your mind, you must.

Yodafish

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 2:22pm
Kerren View Drop Down
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you are doing great LJ....sensible points of view and opinion?...no one can fault that can they?....let's test all our respective opinions to the point of distruction and maybe just maybe a solution will be born?

incoming.......

"but would be quite willing to alter that veiw if someone could give sound reasons as to why it is not."......

I like you would be willing to change/modify my p.o.v on the Barrier proposal if an organisation could lay down some facts as to why a reserve is needed there in the first place....and the...."ummm...but we don't know what is down there, but it surely needs protecting" arguement is kinda the same as "your" 75% moot point in my books...no offence but both "facts" appear weak and lacking integrity.

Maybe you would like to start a new round of...ummm...discussion on the Barrier Proposal on the "All Rights Reserved" topic?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2003 at 2:29pm
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Kerren,

What percentage of people at your local beach would you guessimate are extractive users off that beach ie; would be disadvantaged if that beach went into private hands?

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