Online Patition - foreshore and sea bed

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2003 at 12:03pm
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ummmm...Paul are you agreeing with Spina??

.........will wonders never cease?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2003 at 12:05pm
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The thing that f**ks me off Paul is the fact that there aren't enough hospital beds or operating theatres for New Zealanders but as soon as someone who doesn't even live here gets sick they get the complete treatment... and guess who pays for it?!? f**k that sh*t!
Keep knockin', nobody's home.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2003 at 12:06pm
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I know Kezz, I couldn't believe it either, but like I said, mainstream NZ has had a guts full, its just so wrong!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2003 at 12:21pm
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I am laffin' Paul....

you are totally correct....real New Zealander's are just that and nothing else. Trying to publically divide this nation will be their downfall....voters will not allow it!

I think you will find most people "here" are like minded, but perhaps type "things" differently?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2003 at 1:05pm
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 Howdy All, Kingfishsi I dont blame all maori for whats going on, for years our politicians have been driving a wedge between the Maori and other Kiwis.

The reason for this wedge is I feel a deliberate act of racial segregation, the reason for this is political control over the population, the politicians know very well that if the entire population of New Zealand got together and agreed on a few things it would sound the death knell of the political lies and bullpuck we get fed by our money hungry leaders on a daily bassis.

We have a MMP parlamentry system  here thats controlled by two parties, thats bullsh*t, Where is the proportional represenation there?.

 Just look at the idiots in the beehive arguing amoungst them selves about things that have absolutly nothing to do with the people or the countrys woes, hiding the truth and trying to work out how to get more money out of the tax payers pockets is their main mission.

The time is here for the people of New Zealand to stand up and be counted to take control of their own lives and to remedy the situation on polling day,and remember not to forget all the sh*t we have been dealt this time around and in the past, and then go and vote for the same politicians and get fed the same sh*t for another round.

Dont waste your time trying to give me a hard time being in politics teaches one very quickly how to turn a deaf eye and a blind ear!
wheres my glasses cant find my hearing aids without them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2003 at 3:36pm
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Who do you vote for mate?

They are all bullsh*t artists, who do you believe?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2003 at 8:52pm
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I'm not racist, but...

Some of my best friends are Maori, but...

Same old crap.

Everyone knows no pakeha would never dream of restricting access to anywhere at all.  Come on come all, dive right in.

Next time I'm out at Cuvier, I'll just land and stay a few days. Oops, can't do that, bloody pakeha government won't let me.

Next time I'm in Auckland, I'll take a nice walk along the waterfront. Oops, can't do that, bloody container wharf there. Maybe on the Shore?

Nah, bloody Navy base there. Neither of them non-Maori outfits will let me in.

sh*t, some one should protest.

Nah mate, pakea outfits them.

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2003 at 9:29pm
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Why is it when a bunch of Pakeha can get together in Nelson and have a march. It becomes racist ! Maori can get together and have a Hui (spelling ??) and nothing is said ? Just 2 different types of meetings.

So now we are at a stage where we have nothing built on the Foreshore ???? You may find some of your Maori friends object. They might find themselves out of work !!

Dino

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2003 at 9:43pm
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Treaty settlements are a pain in the back side the more the Govt gives the more they are going to take. The foreshore and seabeds must be left in the hands of New Zealand.  If the Maoris get the rights to the foreshores and seabeds our "Coast line" will be divided up between the tribes and we will pay dearly to get access to the beaches.  New Zealanders are going to have stand up to these Maori or we wont have a beach left to stand on.   It doesn't matter who you vote for because whoever stands up against the Maori will be labelled as a racist which ever political party they are in.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2003 at 9:59pm
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Who said anything about people meeting in Nelson being racist?

Not me. Touch a nerve or something?

And who said anything about having nothng built on any shore line?

Just pointing out there's plenty of coastline in this fair land that you or I can't go for a nice walk along and most of it has nothing to do with fullas with brown faces.

In fact, most of it is because of the politicians youse fullas seem to have so much faith in.

And if Muzzfish reckons his opinions are those of "right thinking" New Zealanders, than I'd suggest you get what you damn well deserve.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2003 at 10:12pm
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Hi  Westy  I May not be"right thinking"  but can see the writting on the wall if the seabeds and foreshore are handed over.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2003 at 10:27pm
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Hello all, As much as I try I cant get used to what is to me a derogatory name,( pakeha ), can any one tell me what it realy means? And I dont mean some ones idea of what it means .

 But this much I do know, a Pa is a fortified living area ( house), so what is a keha???, I dont seem to be able to find a translation any where for that word, any ideas. A mate of mine once told me that Keha was a slang word that ment a Flea. so work that one out for yourself.

Howdy Muzzfish ,Well I for one dont give a sh*t if I get branded a racist for speaking the truth, and if any Kiwi in this country of ours ( that claims to be a democracy ), is to scared to speak the truth about any thing unjust or undemocratic  all I can say is god help us because in that case we have totaly lost the cause already.

So, some Kiwis that belong to the other 85% had better get together and do some thing bloody quick, or just forget that we are the majority owners of this land, and in my books the majority rules, unless of course the minority has already won, and the fight has already gone out of people, and its looking that way at the moment.

Maybe its time to get rid of the English crown and become a republic, Then we could tell the Maori sturrers , go ask the nice Queen lady in England to pay them compensation for there old grievences about her grandmothers treaty with them, Just like the Jamaicans did , that worked they got told to sod off, so I tend to think the maori claims would get the same responce.

Dont waste your time trying to give me a hard time being in politics teaches one very quickly how to turn a deaf eye and a blind ear!
wheres my glasses cant find my hearing aids without them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2003 at 5:19am
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One of the first thoughts that came to mind in regard to this subject was that of

If Maori are given title to the forshore and seabed how long before the commercial industry, which i would suspect Maori could well be the largest stakeholder, exercise their right of ownership? and dictate accordingly.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2003 at 6:10am
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Can you tell me the real difference inthis debate between the forshore/seabed being Owned by NZers or by a small group of people (some have less maori blood then me) that have proved to me that some will want to either ban me or charge me to go to the beach. I detest this government but at least we can see there agender and are allowed to comment without being called racist or being afraid of threats of violence.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2003 at 11:37am
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Mr Westyfisho.

I don't like those who try and turn things around and call our society�s institutions rascist, when they are not.  The motivation always seems to be to introduce a new right or law that favours one person over another, and frequently it�s based on selected but diluted blood-lines of dubious strength.  That is just rascism in reverse, and frequently leads to continued dependence on the institution.  Moreover, such laws and rights seldom achieve anything other than satisfying the particular green-eyed monster driving the beneficiary at that particular time. 

By labeling various places as �non-maori outfits� you are insinuating a preference for race, or racial exclusivity, which suggests rascism.

In fact, by trying to call such institutions rascist, you are exhibiting the lazy and green-eyed thinking which stands in your way to being a full participant and contributor in a modern democratic society.  You are in a modern democratic society, whether you like it or not.  We all are.

If you are not happy with POAL controlling the port land, then perhaps you should post your RX7 back to Japan from whence it came.

If you are not happy with having a Navy, then you are perhaps not mature enough to realize that collective defence is the cornerstone of this modern society, lest we fall into a downwards spiral of tribal wars and savagery, leading to cannibalism and eventually a collapse of all social institutions, and eventually, in an over-populated world (which we are undoubtedly in), to starvation for your and your family when the means of production and distribution breaks down.

If you are suggesting that the Navy and Port authority are �pakeha� institutions, then you are trying to create a distinction that does not exist, perhaps to support your tenuous argument that you are hard done by, I don�t know, but it does not wash with other people who have the integrity to think from a perspective that extends beyond themselves and their envy. 

All Maori and other New Zealanders benefit from the Navy and the Ports.  These are government institutions that make all of our lives easier.  Not just people in NZ of European descent, not Maori, Chinese, South Africans, Pacific Islanders, or whatever.  Of course there are groups that benefit more, or less � where would all the Maori-controlled fishing boats land their disproportionately high share of the national fisheries catch without wharves? 

Next time you go past Cuvier, have a look at the bird life there.  Think to yourself how it would have been before Maori went there, before they left a few rats to eat the native birdlife that had been flourishing.  Consider the benefit of having some areas where this government has removed the rats now and the native birds can recover, along with other native plants.  If you think there�s something rascist in that, then you are so intellectually stunted that you should reconsider whether or not your views are worthwhile typing on this forum � or maybe anywhere for that matter.  It's a pity the europeans didn't arrive sooner, maybe we could have saved the moa from extinction.

Whilst you say you are just pointing out that there is plenty of coastline that you cannot walk along, you are suggesting that to increase this restricted coastline, by handing out ownership rights we all currently share to a select minority�s diluted spawn, that it is the same thing.  It is not.  What we have currently is ownership by and for all New Zealanders.  What you want is another free handout, a priveleged right that other New Zealanders do not have, an enforceable right you can get money from, and that money comes from other New Zealanders who now collectively own what you want.  Well, guess what.  The rest of us think that�s a stupid idea.  We don�t like rascist laws and we don�t want you to have any more rights than the rest of us; we are in a democracy now, not a tribal state.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2003 at 11:59am
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Well written and said Redfish

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2003 at 12:03pm
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Yea,

Thats what I was thinking too.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2003 at 6:47pm
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Yip me to.

The racist comment re the Nelson meeting came from Maori MP's. Just a comment not aimed at any one.

Dino

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2003 at 8:54pm
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Spina, go find out what pakeha means yourself instead of waiting for someone to hand it to ya on a plate. That, apparenty, is my perogative.

It's a compliment mate so don't sweat it. It's understandable for you to be uncomfortable about things you obviously know nothing about.

You could ask the bro on the gate when you head to the beach next time, nah just joking.

We're gunna use automated ticketing so the gates won't be manned.

Reidfish, for a start, there's no need to be insulting.

I wouldn't be seen dead in an RX7.

Talk about me turning things around. Just point out a few simple facts and I'm some peacenik who wants the wharves pulled down and has been bludging off society since time immemorial.

Talk about talking past each other.

I consider myself "a full participant and contributor in a modern democratic society" despite you ascribing some wikid racial sterotypes to me.

sh*t, you know nothing about me.

Certainly I'm not hard done by, well no more than every other buggar who works too many hours and can't go fishing when he wants.

Being Maori has never been about some vague fracton of blood, as you propose, unless you're looking at it from a eurocentric point of view of course.

I couldn't care les about the POAL taking Auckland's foreshore, it's what you get for living there I figure, I'm just saying.

Or is it okay to lock up coastline if there's a few jobs in it or some perceived public good?

Nah, I'm not real happy having a Navy since it's pretty bloody ineffective anyway.

How do I benefit from it? Simple, I don't.

You're right, Cuvier would have been luverly back then, before the lighthouse keepers ran the sewer pipe straight out over the cliff, felled the trees, released the goats and cows and built bluddy houses.

That's funny about the moa tho.

Do you really think it is europeans, and europeans alone, who have done anythng in the way of conservatuion in this country?

How come when some rich dude locks up a hunk of coast it's okay because they allegedly create jobs for my sorry brown arse but when it's suggested Maori might, and it is might, get some sort of say, it's a big deal.


See, the issue for me is this, I ain't going anywhere and neither are you.

Now, we can spend the next 50 years bitching about each other all we want and what will we have achieved?

Well, we'll probably just waste 50 years of good fishing.

Seems a dose of goodwill is needed but from what I'm reading here, well that ain't gunna happen.

So if youse wanna play hardball, don't expect Maori to roll over for ya.

Anyway, I can't be arsed keeping typing at the moment. Gotta go nick some food for the whanau and some gas for the stolen holden.

Where do you get the time Reidman? Maybe you should get a job, you've obviously got too much time on your hands.

Catch up with yas all tomorrow night.

 

 

 

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2003 at 9:09am
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 Hi Westyfisho, Well I am very sorry that you think that the word Pakeha is all nice, But I beg to differ.

I wasnt waiting for some one else to do my home work for me because I have already bloody well done it and know what it means, I was fishing for other peoples thoughts on the matter..

I have already been in to the library archives and had alook at the old version of the maori , English dictionary.( Written and edited by( Mr H m Ngatai ).

You wanted it so here it is.  ( Pa) a fortafied living area or village,( Keha ) means a Flea , a Kutu, some thing Smelly, a Pale person, or an ulser,and the word Keha used twice (kehakeha) means a Stink.

MMM, Pa ulser dosent fit ,Pa stink dosent seem to fit together either,Pa  pale person dosent fit ,so whats left then, you tell me what it means???.

Ha Ha Ha. House Flea ya couldnt get any more insulting than that now could ya. and you know what people ?  our lovely representatives in the Beehive even put it on offical forms and documents, shows how ignorant they all are does it not.

Also as for Maori not  rolling over, To late mate they already did that when they signed that treaty, you know the one ? yeah thats right that one ! the one that says equal rights for all New Zealanders, Not one that says because you are a maori that you have rights over and above all other citizens of this country.

And none of this is just fantasy, Its all in the national library Archives, for all to read if they so choose to.

 

Dont waste your time trying to give me a hard time being in politics teaches one very quickly how to turn a deaf eye and a blind ear!
wheres my glasses cant find my hearing aids without them.
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