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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote KingfishSi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 1:36pm
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Wait till people start drowning because they have to take their 12ft tinnies 12 miles offshore to even drop a line and while out there things get nasty. Imagine the funding the rescue services will be requiring to get to those in distress

KingfishSi
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 2:24pm
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the hole bloody thing is just getting out of hand and personaly i think its just a bloody waste of time and money, and its just an attack on our rights to fish, if we were to pay to go fishing then none of this would have happened because the goverment would then be making money out of it....... i for one will never vote for this bloody Party again or any Goverment party that alines its self with the bloody greeeeenieees....... what i can see coming next is the poor pain these fish are being put through when being caught, because they have managed to pull the cover over your eyes once, they will think they can do it again and it wont stop till they stop you from catching a fish.....

believe me they are a crazy bunch of do gooders who think they can save the world the climate will kill all the fish before we ever do, algae blooms and oil contamination and the spread of seaweed that just takes over the bottom seafloor which is happen allready but nothing is said because its making money for the Goverment Mussell farms are spreading this weed with their spat all over the country but nothing is done due to the fact it cant be controled so wait to you see how far that speards around the country and throught the reserves fishing grounds and stops the fish from finding food..........

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 2:36pm
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proof of what im saying

25.04.2003
By SIMON COLLINS

The ozone hole is deforming and killing tiny sea urchins deep under the Antarctic ice.

Scientists from Otago University and the University of New Hampshire in the United States have found that ultraviolet radiation, no longer blocked by ozone, is penetrating sea ice 2.5m thick to affect the organisms living underneath.

Some eggs laid by sea urchins are being grossly deformed, their usual near-perfect circular shape distorted like a badly burned human body. Others are dying.

By installing protective screens in some areas and not others, the scientists have been able to show that the radiation is cutting the survival rate of newly hatched eggs by 30 to 40 per cent.

In areas where there was no sea ice and the eggs were exposed on the sea surface, none survived.

"They were really quite dramatic results," said Dr Miles Lamare of Otago University, who presented the preliminary results at the NZ Antarctic Conference in Dunedin yesterday.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 2:38pm
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more proof

24.04.2003
4.00pm

A roadside study of more than 40,000 Auckland cars has found between 30 and 40 per cent exceed American exhaust emission limits.

The cars were tested by a roadside sensor taken to various sites around Auckland.

Mitch Williams from the University of Denver said many of the drivers would not know their cars were polluting the atmosphere.

"We were testing for carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxide, hydrocarbons. These are things you can't see or can't tell without a test if there is pollution.

"The car runs fine, everything feels fine therefore the drivers don't think their emissions are bad seeing they don't see smoke."

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tomsta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 2:46pm
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All the more reason for Marine Reserves...... I can't wait..... Bring them on!!!!!

The world is stuffed.... accept the Fact.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 2:46pm
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More proof its not us

20.04.2003
Comment by PAUL WATSON*

All over the world, fishing communities are screaming for the heads of seals, dolphins, pelicans, and even whales.

The reason for this is grossly diminished populations of commercial fish. Simply put, most of the world's commercial fisheries have collapsed or are in a state of collapse.

The reason for the collapse has been a combination of mismanagement and corruption within governmental fishery departments, industrial over-fishing, increasing demand from steadily rising human populations and just plain greed by fishing corporations.

Instead of facing up to the real reasons, government bureaucrats, fishermen, and the public have chosen to make scapegoats of other species that rely on fish for their survival.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote KingfishSi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 2:53pm
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Valid points Lethal.

Has anyone else thought that maybe the condition of our atmosphere from all the pollution that we create on this planet has a major affect on sea life? That's something I hadn't thought about.

Maybe those greens should do something about that instead of harassing fishermen.

PS Ever noticed the amount of chronic smoke spewing vehicles around town with Greenpeace and Green party stickers on their bumpers? The Greens probably haven't and won't do anything about pollution issues because they'd then lose half their supporters

Cheers
KingfishSi
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 2:56pm
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no marine reserves will ever save your fish so whats the piont!! because you needed to show you tried is that it........ get reel...... your kids will never make it to the year 3000  they will all die of Aids, SARs or Cancer before they reach that year, we are doomed anyway because money rules.........
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote KingfishSi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 3:04pm
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Don't forget about nukes and chemical weapons!

I hope my kids aren't around in 3000, they'd be damn wrinkly!

Maybe with all this cloning and GE people could live for hundreds of years. Can fish be cloned?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 3:24pm
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Good point Kingfishsi,
Interestingly, fisheries science seems to be increasingly coming to the conclusion that it is climate change, or cyclical climate variations, that determine the relative abundance of species - like sardines and those that feed on them - as supposedly borne out by catch stats from Whakatane yellowfin which have apparently been folllowing a 7 year cycle or something like it.  El Nino etc affect water temperature of course, which as we know is the most significant variable in successful snapper recruitment.
You might notice that the greens are trying to do somethig about climate change too.

Lethal - great stuff from Capt Paul Watson - he's THE MAN.  Funny though how he was pretty quiet when he was in Auckland - did anyone catch him speaking (he had one public sepaking appointment which I sadly missed).  Then he charged off to the southern ocean to ram some Japanese whalers.  He ended up sitting around amongst the icebergs without seeing a single ship for a couple of months, before his 100% vegan crew started looking too pasty and he came back, then sailed off to Sth America.  I recommend the doco they made about him and Sea Shepherd - available at many video stores.

The point is though that he didn't seem too bothered by what happens here. Do you want to point out an endemic NZ species that is in a state of collapse but for which there isn't a rebuilding programme going on?  (Collapse being commercially extinct).  I dunno if 'sky is falling around the world' really applies in NZ.  The QMS is being improved constantly, lastest of which is Deemed Values, which by all accounts have been succesful.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tomsta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 3:24pm
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Lethal, You are Bang on the money... yet again..... my Kids will never make it to the year 3000... not because they will die of some disease.... but because that is still 1000 years from now..... and all though I know that I was blessed with strong genes... I somehow think that not even my kids will reach that age..... But hey... with todays technology, anything is possible......

Sorry Mate..... just taken the piss.....

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SOUS MARINE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 3:35pm
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Reading all your thoughts makes this MARINE RESERVES discusion very confusing to those that have never  had the opportunity to visit,fish,dive the proposed GT.BARRIER RESERVE.

Having been activly involved both commercial/recretionally in this area for the last 37 years i can  not agree the the numbers of fish in this area have diminished to a stage where a RESERVE needs to be in force to protect the resource.

Weather conditions protect this area for most of the year and it is only during the months of late DEC-MARCH  does it get presured by mainly the rec-fishermen.

The commercial vessels ie. TRAWLERS are usually north of the NEEDLES towards  the HEN and the few long liners prefer inside the BARRIER .

Only 2 CRAY guys work this area.

MY IMMEDIATE REACTION IS WHY TAKE OVER SUCH A LARGE AREA.

YOUR CONCERNS ARE ALL VERY VALID BUT BE CAUTIOUS , AS THIS AREA IS ONLY THE START.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote KingfishSi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 3:40pm
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Why not wait until the areas get down to 30% and then make the area a reserve. As long as the trawler bastards aren't doing the area and people aren't being greedy then it would take a long time for things to get to that stage.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 3:47pm
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yeah i was getting so carried away with all my own bullsh*t i lost the plot a bit there... i think i sort of meant 2 or 3 generations down the track, this sort of stuff is way beyond me so i should shut up and just let them do what ever they think is right and say nothing they rule now so how am i ever going to change things.......... i don't really care i may only have another 10-15 years of fishing left in me anyway so who am i to start sticking up for poeples rights i have never done it before so why start now........ its funny how things have changed in the last 5 years 15 fish down to 9 now you get shot at for taking 5 whats it all coming to ??????  take 1 leave the rest for the Goverment to make money on.......

Cheers Lethal

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 4:09pm
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Are you not going to have a go at answering the questions I posed to you Reid?....

I am Kermit, Leader of Muppets Nov 05
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote KingfishSi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 4:24pm
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Maybe it would be best for everyone to go out this weekend and buy a pond, fill it with goldfish and catch them on single strand of silk. Similar to fighting a big fish apparently.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 4:40pm
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OK...

>Steph and Wayne of RnR Charters...they realesed their findings and math
-I would be interested to see a copy of that to include in upcoming submissions myself.

>If not 10% of our EEZ then 10% of what exactly?
-I suspect they will hit 10% of water within the 12 mile limit, inclusive of quasi-protected areas.  Quote from http://www.biodiversity.govt.nz/seas/biodiversity/protected/index.html

An objective of the New Zealand Biodiversity Strategy (NZBS) is to expand the network of marine protected areas (using marine reserves and other forms of legal protection) so that it fully represents the range of New Zealand�s coastal and marine ecosystems and habitats. By 2010, it is hoped to have protected 10 per cent of the marine environment.

A range of protective mechanisms are available for achieving these targets, including marine reserves, world heritage sites, and other coastal and marine management tools such as mataitai and taiapure areas.

A strategy for establishing a fully representative marine protected area network is being developed by the Department of Conservation and the Ministry of Fisheries.

Anyone know what a World heritage Site encompasses?

>How do you think they will use up their target %?
>I personally can't see much of the blue desert being included, can you?
-We haven't heard much of what DOC is planning - I guess they have a bloody big plan to unveil when the new reserves bill is passed and becomes an Act.

The Bill aims to address a number of other deficiencies in the existing legislation. It makes provision for recognising Treaty of Waitangi obligations, it links up with more recent environmental legislation, and it will allow marine reserves to be created within the New Zealand�s exclusive economic zone (EEZ).

This would suggest they cannot however make MR out past the 12 mile limit right now, which is why they need the new Act to be passed.  But, they obviously WANT to make reserves out at sea because otherwise they wouldn't have put that in the Bill.  They can include huge areas and not really affect anyone but the odd foreign-licensed fishing vessel, least of all you and me. I still believe the recreational and commercial fishers will stop more than 10% of the inshore waters being picked out. I guess we'll have to put a bloody big electric fence somewhere a long ways offshore. Otherwise, as you said, they will not be able to avoid taking all of the coast, and then where will (to quote SOUS MARINE) Housewives buy their fish from? 

The areas are going to have to be representative, so I don't know what DOC is planning, but I do not believe that they will take all of the coast and all of the offshore islands.  If they do, I'll be the first one out there breaking the law (well, maybe behind Lethal once he snaps out of his aforementioned self doubts)

>You say that DoC or whomever will try and include cable areas and the like in the final %.....if this is the case will Telecom or whatever communication company be allowed to do maintenance on their services/cables in the future? 
- They will be allowed to because some overpaid specialist will argue that the effects of cable maintenance will be 'no more than minor' - just like private companies can do anything they want under the Resource Management Act if that can be described the same way. If not, some politician will just lump that area into the total because it looks good - they can't resist a chance to tub-thump when they've done something, and all of a sudden someone will take credit for doing nothing, it's human nature!

>I intend to stick to my guns 
- Good on you for doing so Keren, it's been fun doing no work this afternoon, everyone's had their say, and even Sous-Marine has stopped using 100% capitals!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 5:02pm
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thanks for that Reid....It is really good to see that between my argumement/discussion and yours, neither of us really know what will happen in the future. This is probably the biggest worry for me (yes I am being selfish) at this stage , basically because I want to know if there is any point in persueing a career in this sport of ours?...do I buy a boat?....do I continue to negotiate on that house up North so as to move my family closer to my favourite fishin' hole?...and all these "life" question that kind hinge on an outcome with this lot.

anyway:

The reason I may seem to be doing a good impression of "Chicken Little" is that at least with worst case scenarios, things can only get better...In the event we are still communicating about this in and around 2010 I would derly love you you to say "Kerren, told ya so...neenawneenaw!"

At the MSFC meeting last night we had proof by way of misplaced email that Twigs and Tweeters/Westcoast Working Group don't want and don't feel they need to consult major stake holders (ie fishos) with their plans for a Westcoast Marine park/reserve. I am hoping to get a copy and be able to provide some "choice" quotes.....because it really showed the integrity of this group of snakes in the grass.

Guess I should go pack my bags...nearly time to hit State Highway One!....

I am Kermit, Leader of Muppets Nov 05
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 5:18pm
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Who started this post anyway.....

Forest & Bird (flying fish?) are a different bunch to DoC ...who are a different bunch to UA. DoC cant answer questions on the Westcoast proposal because they know nothing about it .... at least we are in a position to organise ourselves.

We do need to be smart to beat this, the good people at Option 4 are probably the best chance we have to defend our way of life. But we all must do our bit.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2003 at 9:18pm
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you really did open a can a worms here Smudge i supose it was the way i read you artical that you had swung to the other side and gone from red carrot to green leaf that had me going more than anything.......

Cheers Lethal

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