Vehicle tow ratings

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    Posted: 26 May 2022 at 5:24pm
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If a hybrid suv has a tow rating of 1500 kgs would it more than likely have approval to tow the combined weight of :-

525 mtr ali boat
90 hp motor
25 ltr tote tanks  X  2
Normal amount of fishing gear 
Single axel trailer (is weight of a trailer to be included in weight ratings ? )

Thanx in advance for any replies.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2022 at 5:38pm
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Bazza I think it is total tow weight. As the trailer would weigh over a weigh bridge.
For comparison, my 535 Fyran is listed as 800kg. Throw in the extras you mention, you would be well under 1500kg.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2022 at 9:57am
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

Bazza I think it is total tow weight. As the trailer would weigh over a weigh bridge.
For comparison, my 535 Fyran is listed as 800kg. Throw in the extras you mention, you would be well under 1500kg.
Alan

Thanks Alan for your summary which is particularly pertinent as our rigs are very similar.

However had to reread your post several times to establish what was being said, so would like to check my understanding is correct NB

Weight rating comprises of :-
Boat, trailer, motor & normal gear carried weighed on a weigh bridge would be the tow weight rating & in your case was 800 kg ... which must admit seems rather light to me.

Cheers Barry
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2022 at 10:11am
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Bazza,

I would say that Alan meant the dry weight of his boat is 800kg.  To get to the total weight for towing he also needs to add fuel, other gear etc. BUT that would still be less than 1500kg total


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2022 at 10:40am
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Originally posted by Phantom Menace Phantom Menace wrote:

Bazza,

I would say that Alan meant the dry weight of his boat is 800kg.  To get to the total weight for towing he also needs to add fuel, other gear etc. BUT that would still be less than 1500kg total




Hozza about the trailer, shouldn't that be included somewhere or other in the equation ?

Is important to get it right as any warrantee can be ruled null & void if manufacturers tow rating is exceeeded.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2022 at 12:13pm
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Yep - trailer weight should be included in the gross weight calc.

The reality is that the only way to get a fully accurate gross weight is to put the fully laden trailer and boat on a weigh bridge.

For my new boat I used the manufacturers guidance of "1400 kg tow weight" and then added a bit for my own comfort  - ended up with a tow vehicle that can go to 3,100 kg which is overkill.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2022 at 12:16pm
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PM is correct. Mine was listed (by Fyran) as 800kg tow weight. That would be with motor - but not trailer - they can't account for the trailer - don't know what you have.
If you do a google you will find some other 535 tinnies listed at around 800kg tow weight also.  Trailer -at a guess, 200kg?, plus another 100kg of gear/fuel. About 1100kg over a weigh bridge would be my best guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2022 at 12:24pm
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Yeah, I would guess about 200kg for the trailer too Alan.  I could "bounce" my old  boat trailer around by myself if I stood between the rear rollers and practiced dead lift style.  I wouldn't have been able to do this if it had been much more than 200kg. (old boat was 5.25m)

This came in handy when parking after launching and needing to get the trailer to one side when there was insufficient room to reverse into a gap by the side of a dirt road.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2022 at 1:01pm
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Bit of a rabbit hole! Some car tow ratings are for braked trailers. Since most trailers aren't braked in NZ, I would guess that there are are lot of cars towing more weight than they should. Could be an insurance issue. 
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I would think 1500 Kg tow capacity would be quite adequate  but as others have mentioned, that rating may be for a braked  trailer.
  I used to have a heavily built 5.35m alloy centre consul with a 60HP 4 stroke, 3 tote tanks, twin batteries , 90L ice box with
fish and ice, a second anchor, lots of tackle. The trailer was of heavier the  construction too.
On a weigh bridge it weighed 1350 Kg.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kimber7wsm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2022 at 6:14am
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Most ratings I have seen have 2 and it is total weight trailer included. One braked, and one unbraked. For example the Ford Ranger is 3500kg, but only 750kg unbraked. 4.5 times less.

Warranty and insurance will be very quickly voided, if you go over. They only need a small excuse and that's a big one. The good news is it shouldn't too hard to retrospectively braked your trailer.

Transit engineering do a really awesome looking aluminum caliper 1500kg kit on trademe for about $1100, throw in a 50*50*6 RHS for the axle, get a mate (as long as he can make it square) to weld her up, galv it and your done. Although they are cast rotors by the look of it. I'd ask them if they can up grade to SS.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2022 at 7:09am
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I would stay unbraked if possible - for maintenance issues.
The number of times I have dealt with frozen brakes on a mates trailer when he needed a warrant.
His latest boat will be at the heavy end of a 5.5m, but he went unbraked on the trailer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2022 at 8:40am
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The number of times I have dealt with frozen brakes on a mates trailer when he needed a warrant.

 Does he leave the brake on when stored?

 Tow weights per manufacture specs, legal specs and insurance specs can be all different and confusing
 There are 2 basic tow weights.. usually vehicle manufacture specs
1/ the vertical weight on the ball
2/ the total weight of the trailer, boat, gear fuel etc.

Then get into what is legal on the road.
Covered by
1/ Total weight of the vehicle, trailer , gear and the weight of gear and ppl in the vehicle.
2/ Then throw in the braking distance

And now go to insurance company Stuff which can be any of the above and usually not well defined.

And how to measure the weight of a single axle trailer and load can be done accurately like this in the back yard.  I have posted this several times over the yrs.. from an old high school maths lesson yrs ago.

 Did you know you can weight the boat (only the boat)  on the trailer with bathroom scales?

 keep the engine tilt as low was possible, but high enough to just clear the ground..

 measure all weights in lbs

 measure All distances in inches

1/Put the sales under the hitch, a length timber long enough to JUST lift the hitch and take the weight on the scales...  with trailer level or slightly low at the front.

record the weight  call it   w1

2/ slide the boat back on the trailer about 12" to 20"

 measure the distance accurately and record it  d1.. the accuracy of this measurement is very critical to the end result

 d1

3/ now with hitch same height record the weight as before You may not be able to move the boat a full 20" as the balance on the trailer may put the hitch up in the air....if so just move back till just have enough weight to measure at the hitch....OR put a known weight on the bow deck.. say a 40L water container full right at the start , before taking 1st weight (W1)

OR simply move a lot of stowed gear equipment well forward.

Measure this weight    w2

4/ now measure the distance from the center  where the bit of wood its on the scales to the center of the axle.

d2

 Boat weight = d2(w1-w2)/d1

If put an extra weight on the bow of the boat, now subtract that weight.

Sounds strange.. like stuff like center gravity, weight of trailer etc... If one does the full calculation create the full equation, including these constants and gravity , center of mass and stuff....then compact the equation, all those factors cancel out and one is left with the above equation. Therefore if the constants like trailer weight... which we dont know cancel themselves out then we dont need that information in the 1st place




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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote MB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2022 at 3:38pm
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Originally posted by kimber7wsm kimber7wsm wrote:

Most ratings I have seen have 2 and it is total weight trailer included. One braked, and one unbraked. For example the Ford Ranger is 3500kg, but only 750kg unbraked. 4.5 times less.

Yep, a lot of less powerful cars towing heavier boats around with an unbraked trailer. Pretty much the norm I would say. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2022 at 6:17pm
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MB has raised a very good point in pointing out that un braked rating is mostly nearer to 1/2 that of a braked trailer.

By exceeding the un braked load limit with a un braked trailer can render  the vehicle warranty null & void along with insurance.

Being aware of that fact that over the years I have unknowingly been at risk of such a scenario & no doubt many of us here have been likewise.

Consider the very real possibility of crashing into the back of another vehicle whilst in excess of the legal trailer weight.

Presumably you would be liable for any damage caused to both vehicles and any 3 rd party property damage caused.

Scary stuff could add up rapidly & without any cover.

Certainly food for thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2022 at 7:08pm
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https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/glovebox-guide-safe-loading-towing/guide-safe-loading-towing

How much can your vehicle tow safely?

Most vehicles have tow ratings given to them by the manufacturer specifying the gross trailer weight braked, unbraked, or both, that the vehicle can safely tow. Although the law does not require these tow ratings to be followed, the NZ Transport Agency recommends that they be taken into account.

In addition to the requirements above, the law requires that every light vehicle and trailer combination must be capable of stopping within a distance of seven metres from a speed of 30km/h. In effect, this means that the maximum allowable weight of an unbraked trailer is limited by the weight and braking ability of the vehicle being used to tow it.

The Transport Agency recommends, as a guide, that the laden weight of an unbraked trailer should not exceed three quarters of the unladen weight of the towing vehicle and then only if the towing vehicle's brakes and tyres are in excellent condition. A trailer heavier than this may prevent the vehicle combination from meeting the seven metre from 30km/h brake performance requirement. To illustrate the increase in stopping distance when towing an unbraked trailer, consider a trailer with a laden weight equal to the weight of the towing vehicle.


Contact them Bazza rather than be ill-informed   most vehicles are 750kg rated doesnt leave much wriggle room if in doubt check with your insurance Co

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote krow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2022 at 8:39pm
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Thanks for posting that again Steps. I new there was a way. I tried to get the tow hitch weight of my last trailer but it maxed out the scales. Wondered why I struggled to lift it Ermm Current trailer has fixed that issue. I'll save your formula and go weigh the boat one day. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2022 at 8:53pm
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Interesting Paul my XC90 weighs 6 tonne and has a unbraked tow capacity of 3.5 tonne but I know it will tow and stop a lot more.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2022 at 9:26pm
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Originally posted by Kandrew Kandrew wrote:

Interesting Paul my XC90 weighs 6 tonne and has a unbraked tow capacity of 3.5 tonne but I know it will tow and stop a lot more.

Not being a dick, but if you check the AA website, it's says 750kg or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kimber7wsm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2022 at 6:34am
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As posted above by PCJ the only legal requirement to pass a WOF, is must stop within 7m from 30kmh. No brake requirement (well for light trailers).

However warranties and insurance companies, won't let that be an argument to honor there agreements. They'll use manufacturer recommended limits. Imagine if you rear end new high end vehicle and write it off and you have no insurance because you have follow the ratings. 

It's got nothing to do with power of the car, but how it's constructed. To tow heavier weights, you need a chassis.

As for brake issues, I've only had them with cast iron calipers\, or SS with Phenolic pistons. Go SS with SS pistons you won't have issues. Those Aluminum  ones I mentioned with be good too.
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