Rigs for circle hooks?

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    Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 10:10am
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Hey all, 
To avoid gut hooking fish I have moved to circle hooks, but find the hookup rate not that good.  
Are there any go to rigs or other hints (apart from don't jerk the rod when you get a bite) that would help?
Thanks in advance. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 11:00am
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Good question there JR. I use circle hooks almost exclusively for bait fishing. There are three important things to remember:

1: the bait shouldn't fill the gape of the hook. Also if you put the hook through the middle of the bait you run the risk of it folding over and covering the point. The point needs to be well exposed. I only hook the bait once near the end of the bait so it hangs off the hook.
2: tie the hook with the trace entering the eye from the point side of the hook
3: give the fish time to take the bait, then lift and wind. Crank the reel a few revolutions before you stop winding,. Don't do a half hearted tug or half a wind of the handle. On the other hand don't do a swift strike either. Circle hooks work extremely well once you're using them correctly - especially in deep water.

I'll try and get some pics for you
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JollyRaja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 1:23pm
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Thanks for that smudge..
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kaveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 2:37pm
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This is one of the best circle hook knots and a great video of howto tie it
www.kavemantackle.co.nz
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great advice, right there - to Smudge's points i'd add that the way I think of it when using a biggish bait such as most of a jack mackerel, you "scoop" to embed the hook, say in the shoulder, then kind of "roll" it in place.
When you do the scoop, the hook point is angled away from you (towards the rear of the bait).
That way you end up, as Smudge emphasised, the hook point should be well clear of the bait and the shank lies flat against the body (with the hook point, and the eye, pointing back towards the head of the mackie).

For a half jack mackerel I use a two hook rig - as above, one scooped well back, and the other up through the chin. The one at the rear is usually about a 6/0 and a 4/0 in the front.

If you can find a copy, I'd highly recommend one of Mark Kitteridge's older snapper fishing books, which have excellent sketches of suggested circle hook rigs with various baits. Or you might find one of his NZ Fishing News articles on this site.

He's a big fan of circle hooks. I essentially copied his methods and they work well for snapper straylining.

Kev's points re the way to tie them on is critical if you ledger/flasher rig for bottom bouncing or surfcasting, ditto Smudge's point about hooking just once through a smallish bait on those kinds of rigs.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 7:22pm
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Originally posted by The Tamure Kid The Tamure Kid wrote:

great advice, right there - to Smudge's points i'd add that the way I think of it when using a biggish bait such as most of a jack mackerel, you "scoop" to embed the hook, say in the shoulder, then kind of "roll" it in place.
That way you end up, as Smudge emphasised, the hook point should be well clear of the bait and the shank lies flat against the body (with the hook eye pointing back towards the head of the mackie).

For a half jack mackerel I use a two hook rig - as above, one scooped well back, and the other up through the chin. The one at the rear is usually about a 6/0 and a 4/0 in the front.

If you can find a copy, I'd highly recommend one of Mark Kitteridge's older snapper fishing books, which have excellent sketches of suggested circle hook rigs. Or you might find one of his NZ Fishing News articles on this site.

He's a big fan of circle hooks. I copied his methods and they work well for snapper straylining.

Kev's points re the way to tie them on is critical if you ledger/flasher rig for bottom bouncing or surfcasting.

Yeah agree entirely TKK
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 8:37pm
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I like the longline knot as well, similar knot.

Long strip baits work better than chunks and I find the hooks must be sharp because your relying on the fish hooking itself.
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Yep like all the above..
Sharp hooks.. applies to all hooks.
When tied look to be hanging the wrong/ illogical way
Barbs well clear of bait.
Hang the baits rather than chunked.
 
Its not just "big baits big fish"
Its more match your hooks to your baits and visa versa.

We have using circles from around the very early 60s.. maybe late 50s.
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Was a fan of circle hooks as the story goes,lip hooked fish.Found most were getting down to gill area. Have gone back "J" hooks and having better success on hooking lip. Comes down to technique,

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I have a 'lazy' style of bait snapper fishing with circle hooks. Mostly use 8/0 and either steamed mussel or squid and I have a rod holder with goes into a vertical rod holder and keeps the rod at a near horizontal plane to the sea.
Drop to the bottom and leave rod in holder and keep hands off until rod starts bouncing, indicating a fish is hooked. No striking, just let the fish hook themselves - simple, eh?
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2021 at 9:37am
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Originally posted by Fishb8 Fishb8 wrote:

I have a 'lazy' style of bait snapper fishing with circle hooks. Mostly use 8/0 and either steamed mussel or squid and I have a rod holder with goes into a vertical rod holder and keeps the rod at a near horizontal plane to the sea.
Drop to the bottom and leave rod in holder and keep hands off until rod starts bouncing, indicating a fish is hooked. No striking, just let the fish hook themselves - simple, eh?

A technique that works very well for sliders and gurnard Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JollyRaja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 8:15am
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Great stuff TTK thx a lot..
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Thx Fishb8, what setting on the drag do you use for this?  i have tried doing the same by chucking the line way back of the boat into the burley trail but nil hookups.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JollyRaja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 8:19am
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Thx a lot for your help all.. cant wait for this weather to clear up and get out there.  Wed 27Oct next week looks good for now for East coast Auckland.. will let you know how it goes if I do venture out. 
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With circles, I put this 'picture ' in my head.. as describe to the grandchildren.
 U sitting on the shore with the children eating chips.. the seagulls come in, The smaller ones jump in fight nibble over the small chips thrown.. Couple bigger birds just stand back
 Then 1 or both decide on a juicy chip jump in push the other birds aside,
 And this is the important part..
The pick up the chip and skip/ fly out way from the crowd, THEN proceed to eat the chip in peace.

So apply thias in principle..
Use the lightest sinker , just enough to drop and hold on the bottom..
I like shamano baitrunners for this... main drag set to about 1 to 1.5kg direct straight line, off the end of the rod.
Baitrunner drag set to just, no more, to hold the sinker/ bait in positon or just very slowly 'roll out the back at most.
The bigger fish comes along picks up the bait/ hook, Just like the seagull above, and swims away, let him go, maybe 10 or even 20m (depending on water temp and season.)
Then slowly lift the rod, you will feel the load go on..There is a piont you can sort of see the hook start to roll and point start to sink in...then a turn, load up the rod, and sink the hook in the rest of the way.

I use braid on all rods except one...and this is why I use braid, can actually feel everything, mono is more judgement than feel.

Other Very very important thing is how you hang the bait...
 must be tidy... if you bring line up (no fish on) and there are twists in the trace, how the bait is hooked on is spining the hook and bait like a propeller....and the fish just get dizzy trying to follow it round and round in big circles.

Catching is getting all the little detail bits  all lined up...like most things.. eg a golf swing, get stance, back swing, grip, head down, .. then weight transfer , power to leading hand etc all right... u hit the green.. get one wrong and hit the rough, or straight up and down.
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Originally posted by JollyRaja JollyRaja wrote:

Thx Fishb8, what setting on the drag do you use for this?  i have tried doing the same by chucking the line way back of the boat into the burley trail but nil hookups.

As Steps said a baitrunner type reel is good, leave it on the bait runner handle and count to 3 or more depending on size of bait then engage the main drag. Having said that I often just leave my reel on it's usually drag setting, especially with small baits
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2021 at 9:23am
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It is a combo of sinker weight and drag..
 As I said above only just enough weight to drop and hold on the bottom.. no more.
Combine that with just enough drag  so the trace/ hooks can bounce out along the bottom back into the burley trail.

So a non bait runner, just back off the main drag...so just holds the trace in the current where you want...

"......into the burley trail but nil hookups."

Which the burly maybe the issue (???)

 
This brings another very common issue, where you hang the burley and how deep.

Draw a pick of the boat, the anchor position, how the boat hangs on the anchor with a little breeze not in same direction of the current..
So say the burley is on the anchor or even on the bow...the trail goes out to the side and your lines , once out the back not even close to the trail..
 Then there is depth you hang the burley..
 This depends on what targeting and at what depth...
Again draw a side profile of boat/ water column... If fishing the sea bed, and burely at the surface... bait and burley trail now different places on the vertical plane.

 Now throw in  that the current down at the sea bed are very often in different direction to at the surface or even up in the column.
 Now throw in what burley rope you use.. bigger the rope the more it gets dragged out the back due to drag.. further back the less control have the actual trail and actually fishing in the burley.

I have one of those round plastic hand line reels ( a suggestion made to me in these forms.. previously was a bulky electric cable extension reel )  The burley rope we use id 3 (or 3.5mm cant rem) haberdashery braid (about $45 for 100m) Every meter there is a small loop tied so can hang off the stern at any depth I like.
It hangs near vertical in all but big currents.
I hang it on my cnr.. It is me who hast to pull it in etc, it is me who everyso often pull up  with jerks then jerk it back down a few meters...therefore it is my rod(s) off that cnr that is directly down the burley trail.
 Sounds good, but over the yrs I still havnt found this an actual advantage.

When stray lining, even dropper sometimes, on the east coast, be it 2m water or 30m we never anchor up, just drift over reefs bouncing the sinkers, thru bays etc and burley abut 1 m off the bottom.

This is the thing with fishing, it is getting every detail you have control over, knots, traces, drag every detail right as possible.

I will add our stray line traces are different.. sort of go back to the old school 50s early 60s.
Mainline (braid), to bimmini loop.
A cats pawed swivel with clip. 
Trace with small surgeons loop and finish knot at top.
Reef sinker and trace are clipped onto the clip at the end of the main line.
 Must have very tidy baits so no spin up
 As current/ depth changes its a very quick easy sinker weight change..

Stray line trace with fixed keeper (J or circle) and end hook. (circle)



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Drifting with berley, berley drifts back from the boat while the boat drifts away from the berley how do you know if your baits are in the berley trail.

On the odd time during the winter when I do go stray linning I anchor up, berley shiploads out sometimes even 2 berley bombs from the surface so I can see which way the berley is drifting, then I can cast back into it. I prefer overhead reels leave them out of gear, control the line with your thumb and click it into gear when the fish picks it up. I don’t tend to let them run to long, always a chance they will drop the bait.

I prefer to use mono instead of braid but it I am using a reel loaded with braid I will top load it with about 3 to 4 metres of mono, nothing fancy from there, I like about a metre long loop tied with a spiders hitch, easy to tie. Couple of ball sinkers and 2 hooks, 1 hook tied on with the old uni knot and the other hook just free running as a keeper. 2 pillies ganged together and give the gut bags a good squeeze to let a bit of blood out. Cast back and wait.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2021 at 11:17am
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Drifting with berley, berley drifts back from the boat while the boat drifts away from the berley

Yes.. the burly drifts a little fast than the boat.. picks up the fish going to go over and holds them, also the bigger chunks drop and leave a trail behind, which the traces are in..
 Its about drawing ones self a picture.

 how do you know if your baits are in the berley trail.

Because we catch far more fish doing so than not doing so..
 We may not catch the big show off fish, as we do not target as such. Our fishing is out for good company and a feed, with big fish a common bonus, and the logs show we are damn good at it...being doing ity since the late 1950s.
  


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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

Drifting with berley, berley drifts back from the boat while the boat
drifts away from the berley

Yes.. the burly drifts a little fast than the boat.. picks up the fish going to go over and holds them, also the bigger chunks drop and leave a trail behind, which the traces are in..
 Its about drawing ones self a picture.

 how do you know if your baits are in the
berley trail.

Because we catch far more fish doing so than not doing so..
 We may not catch the big show off fish, as we do not target as such. Our fishing is out for good company and a feed, with big fish a common bonus, and the logs show we are damn good at it...being doing ity since the late 1950s.
  


so you have been using this style of fishing since the late 50, I thought you have only owned 2 boats. Your current one for about the last 10 years and one back in the sixties, you said you were into hotrods and vintage cars in between that time.
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