Electrolysis effecting billfish action

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    Posted: 05 Sep 2021 at 4:08pm
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Electrical Current Leaks in game fishing. While we are in lockdown I thought it’s probably a good time to come up with a simple check procedure to check for any current leaks to prevent spooking billfish. I’m keen to hear what procedures people are using in alloy trailer boats especially with outboards.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2021 at 10:38pm
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Interesting topic.
My son fits boats, and when asked why they take them over the hill to the ocean instead of down to the river or lake, he said that you cannot do effective current and voltage checks in fresh water.
Really nice to know that some boat shops don't just slap a motor on and post it out the door. These guys are quite thorough.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2021 at 4:14am
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Thought that was strange that a stray current would have an effect o fish but seems no.its correct,who would of thought??

 However, one possible cause that seems to be surfacing more of late is that of electrical current leaks, and the negative effect this can have on raising fish to your newly fitted-out fishing-machine. The stray current caused from an incorrectly installed electrical component, bad earth, or chafed wire using the hull as a ground, turns your boat into a massive battery, the saltwater becoming the electrolyte. If left unchecked, any such electrical fault can be costly, as your aluminium hull combined with an electrical current and saltwater as the electrolyte causes corrosion.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2021 at 8:57am
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A volt meter from the positive terminal on the battery to the alloy hull will check for a leak, you may have to use a multimeter measuring low voltage to see the leak.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Valhalla Jeremy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2021 at 9:02am
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Hi Kandrew, do you leave the terminals on for this check?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Valhalla Jeremy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2021 at 9:25am
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Hi Big Dave did he say how he does the check itself??
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2021 at 11:43am
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Originally posted by Valhalla Jeremy Valhalla Jeremy wrote:

Hi Kandrew, do you leave the terminals on for this check?
yes and run through your electronic and electrical equipment to see if there’s any feedback
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Valhalla Jeremy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2021 at 1:41pm
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Thanks Mate, I do get a 12.8 volt reading from the + busbar and the + battery terminals but I guess that will be because the engine - is connected to the block and then transfers through to the hull?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2021 at 2:23pm
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Originally posted by Valhalla Jeremy Valhalla Jeremy wrote:

Hi Big Dave did he say how he does the check itself??

He did but I have forgotten.
I think it involved a probe in the water.
They even check fiberglass boats.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2021 at 5:54pm
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Yes the motor is boated to the boat so the only way to check this properly would be to isolate the motor, but that’s a lot of work.

As you run the other electrical systems you shouldn’t see any changes in voltage because they would all earth back to the battery.

Here an older link on a similar issue;

https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/detecting-electrial-leakage-on-a-boat_topic59546_post850599.html
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 6:08pm
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So I checked my voltage today - battery + to the hull.
I got full battery voltage. The boat has always had slight signs of corrosion - it is near 20 yrs old. I am waiting right now to get a bit of welding done to fix a couple of corrosion spots - first repair job.
But this seems to indicate my hull is earthed to the motor?
But I struggle to see how else it could be. The motor is bolted to the hull via 4 large stainless bolts - which must be excellent earth connectors?
What else should I be doing?
I fitted zinc anodes to the hull some years back.
Regards
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 6:29pm
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

So I checked my voltage today - battery + to the hull.
I got full battery voltage. The boat has always had slight signs of corrosion - it is near 20 yrs old. I am waiting right now to get a bit of welding done to fix a couple of corrosion spots - first repair job.
But this seems to indicate my hull is earthed to the motor?
But I struggle to see how else it could be. The motor is bolted to the hull via 4 large stainless bolts - which must be excellent earth connectors?
What else should I be doing?
I fitted zinc anodes to the hull some years back.
Regards
Alan
Is it painted Alan?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 6:45pm
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The exterior of the hull is painted.
Can send a pic if useful. The interior is not painted. There has been on going micro pitting in many places, and in a few spots after being stored for a bit there is some white gel like spots. 
But it has done near 20 yrs now and the first repairs are required.
But I wonder if there is something else I should be doing.
I was looking for mV reading. Off scale. Got same V as direct over battery. And the isolating switch is Off.
Regards
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 7:40pm
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

The exterior of the hull is painted.
Can send a pic if useful. The interior is not painted. There has been on going micro pitting in many places, and in a few spots after being stored for a bit there is some white gel like spots. 
But it has done near 20 yrs now and the first repairs are required.
But I wonder if there is something else I should be doing.
I was looking for mV reading. Off scale. Got same V as direct over battery. And the isolating switch is Off.
Regards
Alan
Is there a voltage reading between the battery + when the isolation switch is off ?

Bit of a alloy boat problem, 20 years old you’ve probably done well. My tinny is a 2007 and starting to see effects of corrosion. I’ve re-skinned a few tinnies over the years which is a big job and you still just end up with an old boat.

Check to make sure there are no fish hooks, brass swivels or anything like that hasn’t slipped somewhere you can’t see them and just check where the wiring for things like nav lights, VHF Ariels pass through the alloy hasn’t worn through.

I took the floor out of a Ramco once that the hull had perpetrated on and found heaps of hooks and brass swivels under the floor that had just ate it away.

I have also isolated motors before costs a bit of money and time and I don’t know if it’s really worth effort but it maybe from a game fishing point of view. I’m not into game fishing so can’t offer any information on this apart than the earlier post above.

I’ve got a mate in the alloy game and he has told me you need to be careful what you clean alloy with, he said don’t use dishwashing liquid or cleaners that will strip the oils off the surface. I wash mine with a car wash and wax, seems to have been ok.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 8:05pm
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Yes the 12.7 V is with isolating sw Off.
I am very particular about fish hooks, gaffs etc. Not so much when fishing - but when boat is stored. I even isolate the anchor and chain from the hull. I have stripped the hull out a week or so ago - checking, and no extraneous crap under there. Clean. Totally.
I could probably isolate the motor - but that will take some teflon washers (easy) and drilling the bolt holes o/size and sleeving the bolts via something. Not sure how secure the motor will be, but could be done. I would have to have a closer look , but the motor is buffered by rubber mounts (between the steering pivot and power head). Whether this isolates it completely I haven't investigated (Merc 90 2S).
I don't clean my boat - at least not with dishwash stuff etc.  And generally, not much. Hose down, fresh water. Enough to get the blood out.
To get more on topic, I am not sure the hull has deterred any gamefish. Maybe could always be more, but I have had mahi, wahoo and marlin swim right under the boat.
Had a YF jump about 20m in front a couple of days ago.
So I am not sure what to make of that stuff, but I am concerned about electrolysis and the hull more than scaring gamefish.
Regards
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 8:20pm
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

Yes the 12.7 V is with isolating sw Off.
I am very particular about fish hooks, gaffs etc. Not so much when fishing - but when boat is stored. I even isolate the anchor and chain from the hull. I have stripped the hull out a week or so ago - checking, and no extraneous crap under there. Clean. Totally.
I could probably isolate the motor - but that will take some teflon washers (easy) and drilling the bolt holes o/size and sleeving the bolts via something. Not sure how secure the motor will be, but could be done. I would have to have a closer look , but the motor is buffered by rubber mounts (between the steering pivot and power head). Whether this isolates it completely I haven't investigated (Merc 90 2S).
I don't clean my boat - at least not with dishwash stuff etc.  And generally, not much. Hose down, fresh water. Enough to get the blood out.
To get more on topic, I am not sure the hull has deterred any gamefish. Maybe could always be more, but I have had mahi, wahoo and marlin swim right under the boat.
Had a YF jump about 20m in front a couple of days ago.
So I am not sure what to make of that stuff, but I am concerned about electrolysis and the hull more than scaring gamefish.
Regards
Alan
I’ll check a couple of things on mine tomorrow and come back to you.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote krow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 9:18pm
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Fairly certain you will get 12v between the battery terminal and the hull as the motor is electrically bonded (bolts) to the hull you can't get anything else. It's the same as reading the voltage across both battery terminals. 
If you have an isolation switch and everything is turned off you shouldn't get any voltage from your positive buzz bar back to the hull. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2021 at 8:59am
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Yep this is right the battery switch should completely isolate the battery, so things don’t sound right. Can you see if any electrical works or if the starter with the battery switch off.

If you want you can PM me your number and I’ll give you a call.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2021 at 10:29am
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So up to January this year we had trolled about 500 hours and seen/hooked one Marlin. 

I had a few chats with Jeff Scott who has a auot electrical business at Tauranga and works on mostly boats. Is regarded as one of the gurus of this type of stuff.

He recomended fitting a 3" tear drop annode to my hull. Believe it or not the very next day we went out and caught a marlin. 

I then got the boat over to him a couple of weeks later and he would normally test for three things but given I have a fairly new, 3 years old, engine, he only needed to do check for electrical leakage to the hul, then the cathodic balance of the hull. 

For electrical leakagae, he found that the Car stereo that the previous owner of the boat fitted to teh hull was grounding to the hull. So I have now insulated that using insulated bushes. The second issue is that the fuel sender had earthed itself to the hull. So we disconnected that and now I track fuel usage from the engine management system. 

The next step is cathodica balance. In effect you boat is made up of dissimilar metals Aluminium and stainless, and when you put them in an electroclyte,Saltwater, the hull itself becomes a battery and generates voltage. Ideally an aluminium hull should generate 900-930 millivolts and fitting the zinc anode balances the dissimilar metals to get the voltage where it needs to be. They test this using a device that hangs a probe into the saltwater beside the boat, and touching the otehr probe to teh hull. It turned out that the anode I had fitted was dead right and my voltage was just over 900 millivolts.

We went on to get another marlin to the boat and had another 7 hookups that weren't landed. So we had a much better season. TBH, we also used SST charts for the first time this season so we could well have been fishing in better places. But at the end of the day, knowing that these issues are sorted on your boat is always going to help.
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
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Originally posted by Bigfishbob Bigfishbob wrote:

So up to January this year we had trolled about 500 hours and seen/hooked one Marlin. 

I had a few chats with Jeff Scott who has a auot electrical business at Tauranga and works on mostly boats. Is regarded as one of the gurus of this type of stuff.

He recomended fitting a 3" tear drop annode to my hull. Believe it or not the very next day we went out and caught a marlin. 

I then got the boat over to him a couple of weeks later and he would normally test for three things but given I have a fairly new, 3 years old, engine, he only needed to do check for electrical leakage to the hul, then the cathodic balance of the hull. 

For electrical leakagae, he found that the Car stereo that the previous owner of the boat fitted to teh hull was grounding to the hull. So I have now insulated that using insulated bushes. The second issue is that the fuel sender had earthed itself to the hull. So we disconnected that and now I track fuel usage from the engine management system. 

The next step is cathodica balance. In effect you boat is made up of dissimilar metals Aluminium and stainless, and when you put them in an electroclyte,Saltwater, the hull itself becomes a battery and generates voltage. Ideally an aluminium hull should generate 900-930 millivolts and fitting the zinc anode balances the dissimilar metals to get the voltage where it needs to be. They test this using a device that hangs a probe into the saltwater beside the boat, and touching the otehr probe to teh hull. It turned out that the anode I had fitted was dead right and my voltage was just over 900 millivolts.

We went on to get another marlin to the boat and had another 7 hookups that weren't landed. So we had a much better season. TBH, we also used SST charts for the first time this season so we could well have been fishing in better places. But at the end of the day, knowing that these issues are sorted on your boat is always going to help.


That’s great information, the guy had obviously spent a lot of time working this out over the years.
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