Hauraki Gulf

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Originally posted by kitno kitno wrote:

Funny how recs refuse to declare their catches and claim overall rec catches are an inaccurate guess until the given figures suit their argument.


Quite funny you can find a lot of information on here, Facebook, current and historical fishing club records and world records. Charter boats have been keeping records too. With a lot of the boats targeting kingfish encouraging catch and release.

Besides I thought they had done the guess work for us right?

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Originally posted by funandfunction funandfunction wrote:


Recreational/ Customary ..............  4 %
Commercial ..................................96%

So all these arguments about the recreational catch is an argument about the 4%.

I still remember the total commercial catch that was posted in the nz fisherman mag around 1997-8
world wide was 97 mil tons per annum & dropping
nz was rec 35,000 t
commercial 650,000 t
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 7:26pm
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Originally posted by kitno kitno wrote:

Funny how recs refuse to declare their catches and claim overall rec catches are an inaccurate guess until the given figures suit their argument.
recc % pure guess work .Sure odd ramp survey dont get everyone. Perhaps we should report our catch rate. But it would come down to honesty though,how many would report nil or 2 or released 10.Still be a guessing game unless we had up to date phones and used a simular app that many commercial use. Local netter showed me his app,time date species number/weight area etc he reckons 10 minutes and its done,


How to report

Reporting catch and landings

You need to do a trip start and trip end report.

There are also 5 different fishing event reports that must be recorded, completed, and provided to FishServe separately.

Fish catch report: An estimate of your top 8 species. For trawl fishers, report the top 5 quota management system (QMS) species and top 3 non-QMS species. All other methods report the top 8 species whether QMS or not. Must be completed within 8 hours after fishing.

Capture of non-fish or protected fish species report: Reports any non-fish and protected species caught for that fishing event and must be provided with the corresponding fish catch report. If caught when not fishing, for example, while steaming, you must provide a report before the close of the day on which the permit holder became aware of the capture.

Processing report: For vessels that process their catch on board. These must be completed and provided before the close of the day:

  • following the day covered by the report, or
  • on which processing finishes if it is done over more than one day.

Disposal report: Information on all fish not landed. A disposal report is required for each fishing event where fish are disposed unless the vessel is submitting processing reports. In this case, they submit a disposal report covering the same period as the processing report.

Landing report: First, submit a detailed inventory of your catch when you land. Then update the report when you have the confirmed green weights from your licensed fish receiver.

Monthly harvest returns

Monthly harvest returns must be provided electronically.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 7:35pm
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wow funandfunction that shoots down any argument in support of commercial. They have no ground to stand on even to look sideways at rec fishers. Greedy bastards, making money from a free resource. 

Take the fish off the greedy raping international fishing boats and give it back to small local owned fleets with a % selling at the wharf to locals at prices closer to what they sell overseas. 

Don’t pick semantics out of the above, my panhead IPA trumps all retorts! 
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 8:18pm
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I ain’t interested in shutting down commercial fishing.

What I am saying is the fish we catch are fish they don’t need to catch on our behalf.

I would love to see retail fish sale data.
I have lived here 23 years I still have not seen a single person buy snapper at the supermarket and very rarely at the fish markets. Mostly heard complaints about how much it costs.
I asked Farro’s once how do they deal with fish that is not selling. They said mostly it goes on specials until sold. So people miss out on the produce at its best.
Almost as bad as dumping at sea in my opinion.

It’s another debate but it’s wrapped up in the reasons why we are having these changes forced to upon us.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish Addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 8:20pm
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

... Australia looks better every day. And I have never thought that until lately.
Wash your mouth out Muppet Smile
Funnily enough I was going to post a similar comment a few days ago but thought better of it thinking the reaction may not be worth it.
Unfortunately there is currently a lot happening in NZ that I don't agree or approve of.  Jacinda maybe the empathy queen but Scmo leaves her for dead as a PM imo.
Despite living in WA for some 41 years I only became an Australian citizen two weeks ago.  I'd like to think I have two homes.  Whilst I'm very proud of my Kiwi heritage I'm also very happy to be living in Perth and watching what's going on over there from a distance thank you very much.  
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Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

... Australia looks better every day. And I have never thought that until lately.
Wash your mouth out Muppet Smile
Funnily enough I was going to post a similar comment a few days ago but thought better of it thinking the reaction may not be worth it.
Unfortunately there is currently a lot happening in NZ that I don't agree or approve of.  Jacinda maybe the empathy queen but Scmo leaves her for dead as a PM imo.
Despite living in WA for some 41 years I only became an Australian citizen two weeks ago.  I'd like to think I have two homes.  Whilst I'm very proud of my Kiwi heritage I'm also very happy to be living in Perth and watching what's going on over there from a distance thank you very much.  

yep me too - Nz appears to really be on a downward trajectory - and i feel if it continues, me and wife are giving ever more serious thoughts to clearing off to Oz 
No disintegrations!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 9:01pm
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Australia trending now 😂

Though my stepbrother assures me there is a healthy dose of woke governance there too.

But I could have a house with a pool.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote deacs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 9:04pm
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Are these measures really needed? None of them will really have an impact on how many fish will be taken out of the water. People will just fish on the edge and outside the reserves, snapper move.... The only thing I can think this will help will be shelfish/crayfish.... The bottom protection looks like it will only effect rec scallop dredges.. Do commercial even fish these areas? What major fish/sealife increases are we going to see from these? Basically just going to have a few new spots for Snorkeling maybe a couple of dive ventures.... . 10a is a great spot for kayakers and small boats to fish safely and fishes well, seems rediculous to close that area off, no doubt others can say the same for the other spots. You already have the poor knights why do you need to lock up the next set of islands in the mokes and then the aldies???? All of shore islands that are not that easy to get to. The only policy I have seen of late that is going to make a blind bit of difference is the no dumping for commercial which will literally mean more fish in the water all the rest are "feel good" greeny initiatives with no real scientific backing..... I think it was a labour politician who said the main reason for the degrading quality of life in the gulf is actually the sediment and pollution from land, so why dont we work on changing this?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 9:10pm
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Originally posted by MATTOO MATTOO wrote:

Tzer,
You are right in that all parties have an input in the resulting decline and do share responsibility for decline, descimation. But also responsibility for appropriate commitments to regeneration and future sustainability. Judging by some of the comments following its clear recreational still refuse to accept where the HG is concerned that they play as greater part in the demise of fish stcoks in the HG as do commercial. Oh please Jacinda chuck those filthy commercial pricks out but please leave to go about our business unchecked.

But there are some clear unequal differences.

Recreational have assumed an excepted right to harvest a food source for many years based on there doorstep.
They have had to reduce there catch numbers and improve there techniques in harvesting which is from my early years dramatically improved with still more growth in that area to happen.
It has been exasperated by population growth. Is it population growth that is exasperating the problems with the HG, no it isnt if you listen to some of the propaganda being touted by advocacy groups but we all know it is. You cant have growth in our biggest city and not expect enviromental ramifications, its not all just about how many fish are being caught.

Customary, to many holes in that, so I won't comment. Have to agree, no one wants to go down this path for fear of being labeled racist but in my opinion (Im not against customary) it is heavily abused.

Commercial though I do have an opinion.
I think we need a good commercial fleet.
There practices in the main are well below par. Perhaps in the past yes but is some took the time talk or follow commercial social media you would find that they are making great strides to improve they way they catch and look after fish.

And without doubt to have a business venture where your resource is free, and it is definitely free. The resource isnt free in the sense of being free, I think you will find that there are hefty levies they pay to have access to this resource and you pay regardless of whether you have caught you quota or not. Added to that who do you think pays for a lot of the fishery research that is carried out which also bebefits the recreational sector, certainly not the recreationals thats for sure.
Enables any business to make large profits.

And costs for accessing this product for harvest are well skewed in there profit bottom line.

You only have to compare a farmer on the land and there production costs to those who gather a resource not owned, managed or built.

So I believe if the commercial fleet had the same commercial responsibilities and requirements they would be better custodians of there free resource. Again the misconception is commercial dont have responibilties or arent being good custodians, they themsleves want a helathy fishery so why would they jepaordise that by being irresponsible.
It is that free resource that has allowed them to have a mind sight of rape and pillage.
And rape and pillage they have. The days of rape & pillage have gone and qoutas have seen to that, while yes there is an arguement that some quotas are set too high. If they are to high thats not the commercials fault but rather the scientists.
Government management has been manipulated by money, greed and politics. Yes/No/Debateable many see that theres a conspiracy going on here, we will never know.
With multi generation abuse it has become an acceptable practice and this is for every commercial fleet in the world.. While that could be true of overseas, I would like to think New Zealand is a little less corrupt.

Tzer, you fit into a different part of this commercial sector which are a small,part of our exemplary fleet.
I want to make that clear as your fishing commercially should be well respected by all. Not fishing any more Matt but thanks, much of what I comment on comes from what I have seen on a daily basis as well as being in touch with the commercial sector regularly and not from something written on a piece of paper.


I will irriterate again the big players in any changes for the HG will be Iwi & the likes of Greenpeace, Forrest & Bird along any other environmentalist group that thinks they know what’s best and to me it is these groups that recreational should fear the most not the commercial sector. Hell when the crunch comes you might just need them but the constant attacks recreational give them I would be surprised if you find yourselves all alone at the table that is if your even invited.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote deacs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 9:35pm
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Tzer,
You are right with who we need to fear for sure they will do more damage for our recreational rights than commercial, just look at this proposed plan.


Can you see in these changes where any commercial operations will be majorly effected?

Have to say though to me Mattoo is right commercial still have a long way to go improve the way they fish, (not necessarily there fault as they fish to the rules created) I think the new proposed no dumping rule will quicken this process dramatically and they will soon be using ways to capture the right fish of the right size with little wastage? So would cameras on boats that they have been putting off for years.

Generally if you provide the funding for research you get the results/conclusions you want..... Otherwise those people would be out of a job/funding cut

Let's be fair are recs ever really invited to the table?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2021 at 9:34am
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Originally posted by deacs deacs wrote:

Tzer,
You are right with who we need to fear for sure they will do more damage for our recreational rights than commercial, just look at this proposed plan. One thing I find difficult to get my head around is just how big an area they classify the HG to be. Surely the HG shoukld be from Cape Colville to Cape Rodney and not all the way around to off Whanagmata. SNA1 is just to large and area and should be divided into 3 areas.


Can you see in these changes where any commercial operations will be majorly effected? Looking at the map fig 4 pg 29 it looks like commercial are already liimited in where they can fish. But the plan doesnt outline just where these trawl corridors are so in terms of the impact its hard to say.

Have to say though to me Mattoo is right commercial still have a long way to go improve the way they fish, (not necessarily there fault as they fish to the rules created) I think the new proposed no dumping rule will quicken this process dramatically and they will soon be using ways to capture the right fish of the right size with little wastage? So would cameras on boats that they have been putting off for years. Know doubt cameras will play a part but cameras arent the be all and end all. It does beg the question though that if commercial have to have land all policy why should recreational, you cant tell me all fish released by recreational survive. Yes while one sector does it in great volume non the less the fact remains both sides are wasting the resource.

Generally if you provide the funding for research you get the results/conclusions you want..... Otherwise those people would be out of a job/funding cut If that is the case why then havent adocacy groups sort to fund their own reaserch to dispell fears that commercial have provided funding for research that finds the outcome in their favour. Again I think to many think that there is a conspriracy going on between commercial/MPI verses recreational.

Let's be fair are recs ever really invited to the table? Given a lot of the anti commercial sentiment directed by recreationals towards commercial by advocacy groups & recreationals themsleves, if you were a commercial fisher would you want to invite haters to the table. Problem is here in NZ we have to many advocacy groups who say they represent recreational and all have differing views to the point they cannot agree with each other. So from a MPI veiw point just who do you invite to the table to represent recreational and while I have issues with the way Legasea conducts themselves compared to the rest of these advocacy groups they are by far the best to represent recreational but a serious mind set needs changing.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2021 at 10:15am
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That the essence of recreational fishing though we are all individuals pursuing our own interests.
Again said many times putting your money where your mouth is with a recreational license like the freshwater guys is the only way forward for recs.

If not now faced with this then never.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hook-it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2021 at 11:46am
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:


Again said many times putting your money where your mouth is with a recreational license like the freshwater guys is the only way forward for recs.
 


Born in New Zealand, no to that The taxes I have paid cover my life time fishing. Plus all the tax associated with my sport I have paid my fair share. Smile
If  immigrated to New Zealand then yes.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2021 at 11:59am
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Originally posted by Hook-it Hook-it wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:


Again said many times putting your money where your mouth is with a recreational license like the freshwater guys is the only way forward for recs.
 


Born in New Zealand, no to that The taxes I have paid cover my life time fishing. Plus all the tax associated with my sport I have paid my fair share. Smile
If  immigrated to New Zealand then yes.Wink


The same could be said of those who have immigrated to NZ, they pay taxes too.

Im not so sure I would want to pay for a license but if it meant that this money would go towards recreational fishing progets etc and not the governments coffers then maybe it is the way forward. We all know that this wont happen due to treaty obligations.
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I think thought needs to given to regulating the charter market too.

A Northland party boat is often seen bristling with lines taking all manner of reef fish from the Chicks which wrecks it for your average local in a 15ft tinny.

I get that everyone needs to make a living but there needs to be a bit more scrutiny on how that earn impacts others.

BTW the game and sport fishing charters I’ve used have been very responsible- but the party boats appear to be a different story.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hook-it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2021 at 2:43pm
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Charter market, high end fishing comp'salso.
What has happened over the years with most reserves created it pushes fishers into other areas, this in turn depletes that area very quickly so to speak. We all know one of the biggest problem's, NZ'S FAST GROWING POPULATION.
Some of the problem could be handled, (ouch), with again dropping the daily catch of fishers to three Snaps that is enough for a feed. Leave all other species at the same level . No Cray's/Scollop's for two/three years for 'any' person/ group or what ever at all for that period.
If stopping the small amount of Rec dredging, then Stop all com, dredging .
No Nets/ trawling also
No long lines.

Read an article on whitebaiting controls recently. What, nothing has changed. 
That is also simple. 
One month only. reduce set net size, no wings to be more that 1m long and no selling of bait to any person/company ect. Or make baiting Bi Annual, would give the little chaps a better go , called sustainability. My call on the job anyway . 
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Originally posted by Hook-it Hook-it wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:


Again said many times putting your money where your mouth is with a recreational license like the freshwater guys is the only way forward for recs.
 



Born in New Zealand, no to that The taxes I have paid cover my life time fishing. Plus all the tax associated with my sport I have paid my fair share. Smile
If  immigrated to New Zealand then yes.Wink


Unfortunately your taxes doesn’t even cover the national debt being racked up in your name, or mine.
And as an immigrant I have paid my fair share too since aged 18, so tax is not even a valid reason.

A license could enable so many things like more/improved ramps, facilities and even projects like fish hatcheries. Even having a proper voice in decisions on reserves which I am not against just not how they are decided on and by whom.

I agree with Tzer on the actual size of the Gulf. East coast of Coromandel, really?
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Why do we need 3 kingfish a day? Drop it to one
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Originally posted by Hook-it Hook-it wrote:

Charter market, high end fishing comp'salso.
What has happened over the years with most reserves created it pushes fishers into other areas, this in turn depletes that area very quickly so to speak. We all know one of the biggest problem's, NZ'S FAST GROWING POPULATION.
Some of the problem could be handled, (ouch), with again dropping the daily catch of fishers to three Snaps that is enough for a feed. Leave all other species at the same level . No Cray's/Scollop's for two/three years for 'any' person/ group or what ever at all for that period.
If stopping the small amount of Rec dredging, then Stop all com, dredging .
No Nets/ trawling also
No long lines.

Read an article on whitebaiting controls recently. What, nothing has changed. 
That is also simple. 
One month only. reduce set net size, no wings to be more that 1m long and no selling of bait to any person/company ect. Or make baiting Bi Annual, would give the little chaps a better go , called sustainability. My call on the job anyway . 


I agree with nearly all you say Hook It your sentiment is right. Population growth is only a small part of the problem though in reality. The vast majority of fishos are still probably “kiwis”. Besides the immigrants should get to enjoy the lifestyle they moved here for should they not?

Access to money to finance the boat and all the gear is vastly easier for a lot of people through various means. Add on a good number of land based fishos, the kayakers and long liners from the beach who cover cheaper forms of fishing.
The remarkable thing is all forms work and do catch a lot of fish which is why I always doubt how bad things really are.
I would say us fishermen who are out often and see with our eyes and indeed fishfinders know a lot more than said experts telling us what is what.
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