Ford F150 lightening.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 1:35pm
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But nanny knows best, allegedly.
When do us kayakers get a tax rebate for our clean green fishing methods, unlike all you other dirty polluting barstools? Ha
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 4:01pm
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Originally posted by kingiFiddla kingiFiddla wrote:

Perhaps it's only ludicrous because we haven't yet seen how crazy the future plans are going to be. When they are released and it calls for price/tax hikes and congestion fees so high it forces people onto bikes, we'll see why they 'wasted' so much money on catering to two-wheel and no-wheel modes of transport.

#rollOnDecember






The old 5, 10, 20 year programs. They were such a prominent feature of communist governments 😂
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 5:38pm
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we don't have enough oil to be in need of a democratic revolution/intervention
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 5:13pm
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Wouldn't this really cheer you up if you had brought a new EV last week ............

 You may have seen that the government has today announced the Clean Car Discount, making it more affordable to own an Electric Vehicle. This programme runs from 1st July to 31st December 2021.

Rebates will now be available for new and used Electric Vehicles (EV) and Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEV) valued at $80,000 or less, with a 3-star safety rating or above.

The Clean Car Discount includes the below rebates:

  • New Electric Vehicle: $8,625
  • New Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle: $5,750
  • Used Electric Vehicle: $3,450
  • Used Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle: $2,300
When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 6:06pm
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Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:

Wouldn't this really cheer you up if you had brought a new EV last week ............

 You may have seen that the government has today announced the Clean Car Discount, making it more affordable to own an Electric Vehicle. This programme runs from 1st July to 31st December 2021.

Rebates will now be available for new and used Electric Vehicles (EV) and Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEV) valued at $80,000 or less, with a 3-star safety rating or above.

The Clean Car Discount includes the below rebates:

  • New Electric Vehicle: $8,625
  • New Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle: $5,750
  • Used Electric Vehicle: $3,450
  • Used Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle: $2,300
Cheer you up more Bazza. what to do with litium batteries?it appears bugger all without great expense.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 6:07pm
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LOL. Looks like ute dealers are going to be swamped between now and the end of the year, before the $4500 extra fee kicks in. *edit* looks like about $3k fee for utes, based on general emissions of said dirty rotten polluting utes.

Just the start of the twists and market contortions ahead I suppose.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 6:11pm
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Ya know they are going to have some big rebates on solar systems, just because, it's 'green'. So, why buy anything now? Just wait, and see what they come up with, and hope the solar companies don't go out of business waiting for the rebates to kick in and customers to return.

Perhaps, in recognition of the gaping chasm between their green aspirations and reality of our existing generation and distribution networks, the govt will also add another $5k rebate for EV buyers if they also, within 6 months, buy a solar system with home car charging ability? Could I buy a solar 12v trickle charger for $70 and claim the $5k rebate? I mean, it's about as useful as most home solar EV chargers given the disparity between the output of most systems and the juice EVs need. It's like throwing a snowball at Hell and expecting a drop in temperature. Just the sort of pissing on a forest fire govt's the world over are renowned for doing, after first lighting the forest fire.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 11:00am
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The EV subsidy and coming duty on ICE vehicles is interesting.  Something needed to be done but I'm not sure if this is the right thing (although various subsidy plans have been used overseas so hopefully they modelled off something that was successful elsewhere ... ).

On the solar power front ... I have just been looking at the data available on the Mercury website for my house.  It's interesting and does show a comparative difference in costs.  Note my house is not a particularly energy efficient design/build  - probably about average for the NZ housing stock. i.e.:
    • Insulation not all up to current code (built in 2003)
    • single glazed
    • lots of vertical blinds rather than decent curtains
I'm in Whangaparaoa.

Here are some screenshots of some of the graphs available.

Comparison to other homes of similar occupancy, size etc.:



Monthly cost with average daily temperature overlay 
It would be interesting to see average sunshine hours too but Mercury don't provide this so I would have to source the data and graph it myself - I am a bit to lazy to do that.  Also, I moved in to the house partway through the December billing period so it's low:


Daily electricity use
For the last billing period.  You can see how the average outdoor temperature impacts electricity usage.  We use a heat pump for the main living areas.  Note: Tuesday 1 June was a day when nobody was home  (I had to go do a client presentation in Tauranga) so that's a good comparison for cost of an empty house during work hours:





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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 11:18am
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This is so difficult to stomach knowing that the science is so flawed, the realities of the manufacture of batteries and solar panels, all we are doing is shifting the pollution problem to another place.
And then to tax utes is when there is not a realistic alternative available..

And still the question of where the extra power will come from to charge these vehicles, solar dosen't work at night when the vehicles are home... That's if you are even fortunate enough to not be living in a hi rise complex with no parking... And no roof to put panels on...

So much ideology and no sensibility
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 11:28am
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Good info, thanks PM. Looks considerably lower than most household lecky costs. Wadda you reckon your average monthly 'lecky cost will be over a year?

I guess like many if not most of us, our power costs are simply not enough to justify the solar system costs. So, perhaps the clever (devious) govt is about to monkey-hammer that equation from both ends to fit their models by:
1. upping the electricity costs to pay for new infrastructure builds
2. using the vehicle feebate scheme to encourage you to get an EV and massively increase your lecky demand thus massively increase average monthly lecky expenses
3. rebates for solar systems that include EV charging systems.

Are they going to have tax credits for businesses that make the solar systems here or are we going to massively increase our imports, shipping more $ offshore, missing the significant multiplier effects of employing Kiwis to actually produce something domestically?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 11:32am
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EVs now the government is going to give coin towards your purchase. Has anyone thought about how they will recoup that cost??no fuel tax so just maybe hit the registration hard.Instead of 120 pa we will make it 5 hundy??


State $522    yet my holden 3.6 v6 is only $480. are they saying the leaf is unsafe??
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 11:42am
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Big D, I agree. And the Devil is always in the details and generally makes a mockery of the lofty ideals.
So, with no credible alternative they force those of us with older utes we use for productive (adding to the tax base) outcomes, to rush for the petrol utes between now and the end of the year before they cost another $3k in January (although dealers are likely raising prices now anyway), putting said newly purchased 'dirty' polluting utes onto our roads for the next 20 plus years of their lives.  How on Earth is this helping their greening objectives? They are forcing those of us looking at new utes to buy now rather than wait a year or two for credible, affordable EV utes.

Or, are they going to get mired in yet more layers of bureaucracy enforcing rules around who can buy a fee-less ute (say, if used for business rather than urban shopping trips)? Then anyone trying to tow a good sized boat that needs a new ute will need an exemption from the fees too, then, then, then.

Or, we repair our older, even more polluting dirty utes so they can keep going for another 10 years while we await credible EV alternatives. Yeap, that's a green outcome right there.... sheesh.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 11:46am
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Pcj, perhaps road user charges for everyone? It's not just covering the new EV rebates - what about all the lost petrol tax.

Make petrol stations (while we still have 'em) criminally liable if they sell fuel to any car not displaying valid WOF/COF/up to date RUC and rego stickers. Gets the clunkers off the road, stations have to charge more for the fuel = disincentive for dirty vehicles.

Sounds like we are going to get into animal farm territory - all drivers are equal but some are more equal than others. Orwellian govt for the brave new world.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 11:50am
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Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

EVs now the government is going to give coin towards your purchase. Has anyone thought about how they will recoup that cost??no fuel tax so just maybe hit the registration hard.Instead of 120 pa we will make it 5 hundy??

The stated objective is that the fee on less efficient ICE vehicles pays for the rebate on EVs.  Obviously how that stacks up depends on how many of each are sold ...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 12:10pm
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Originally posted by kingiFiddla kingiFiddla wrote:

Good info, thanks PM. Looks considerably lower than most household lecky costs. Wadda you reckon your average monthly 'lecky cost will be over a year?


I've only been in this house for 6 months so I have grabbed the cost figures from the website and doubled them to get an annual forecast.

Electricity: $642.46 pa
Gas: $527.54 pa
TOTAL energy cost: $1,170.00 pa

Note this is before "dual fuel discount" and "prompt payment discount" which vary.  If I assume a mid-point of $15 per month for these it reduces the annual total by $180 so you could say I'm looking at about $1,000 per year for home energy.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 12:10pm
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Originally posted by kingiFiddla kingiFiddla wrote:

Pcj, perhaps road user charges for everyone? Make petrol stations (while we still have 'em) criminally liable if they sell fuel to any car not displaying valid WOF/COF/User Miles sticker. Gets the clunkers off the road, stations have to charge more for the fuel = disincentive for dirty vehicles.

Sounds like we are going to get into animal farm territory - all drivers are equal but some are more equal than others. Orwellian govt for the brave new world.
I am lucky to have a new station near work in manukau NPD fuels(mobil) z 95 is $2.37 npd $2.15 no brainer for me.91  2.03 unsure what the 100 is

Why are gull expanding?? 3 new stations south AK
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 12:25pm
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Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

Originally posted by kingiFiddla kingiFiddla wrote:

Pcj, perhaps road user charges for everyone? Make petrol stations (while we still have 'em) criminally liable if they sell fuel to any car not displaying valid WOF/COF/User Miles sticker. Gets the clunkers off the road, stations have to charge more for the fuel = disincentive for dirty vehicles.

Sounds like we are going to get into animal farm territory - all drivers are equal but some are more equal than others. Orwellian govt for the brave new world.
I am lucky to have a new station near work in manukau NPD fuels(mobil) z 95 is $2.37 npd $2.15 no brainer for me.91  2.03 unsure what the 100 is

Why are gull expanding?? 3 new stations south AK

PCJ - I live on Whangaparaoa peninsula  where the cheapest diesel is $1.51.9 or so at the moment.  I have started using the Z app and pre-purchasing when I am somewhere with cheaper fuel e.g. when I was in Tauranga I prepurchased 100 litres of diesel for $1.31.9 per litre and 100 litres of 91 for $2.09.9 (petrol is for the boat).

Downside is Z already have my money.

Upside is I have avoided the regional fuel tax.

It still works out cheaper if I haven't been out of Auckland recently and pre-purchased fuel as I occasionally top up the "Sharetank" when I am somewhere else in Auckland.  The app looks at Z prices within 30 km of your location at the time of prepurchase and gives you the cheapest of them.  Z isn't the cheapest fuel around but this works for me because of my location.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 2:40pm
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Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

Why are gull expanding?? 3 new stations south AK

1. investment decisions like that take a long time to get through the processes before breaking ground. The call to do them would have been made long before the govt released the latest distortions
2. fossil fuel vehicles don't disappear from our roads in December. I can't recall the dates but if this govt stays in or subsequent govts don't change things, wasn't it something like 2031 before new ICE vehicles sales are banned? Let's say lifespan is 20 years, that's a demand, albeit dwindling, until 2050 or thereabouts. I suspect the payback period for a petrol station of the likes that get built in the coming years will be considerably under 30 years.
3. follow the $. I'd wager private enterprise has sharper minds evaluating matters than govt. They may have modelled the govt plans and decided they are a pipe-dream, or that they can quickly add rapid chargers to their fuel stations as demand for that picks up. In fact, they may find they generate more revenue as EV owners still have to kill some time- buying coffee, food, etc. Last time I looked into it a rapid charging set-up costs about $40k to install here in NZ.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 3:02pm
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"follow the $. I'd wager private enterprise has sharper minds evaluating matters than govt. They may have modelled the govt plans and decided they are a pipe-dream, or that they can quickly add rapid chargers to their fuel stations as demand for that picks up. In fact, they may find they generate more revenue as EV owners still have to kill some time- buying coffee, food, etc. Last time I looked into it a rapid charging set-up costs about $40k to install here in NZ."

We still need gas stations for forseeable future. Just their product mix may change over the coming decades. EV charge points - for sure. Why not? Will have a mix of hybrids on road too - some which may have plug in charge points. Also my guess is we will get H fuel sometime soon. Need distribution networks. Gas stations perfect.
Alan

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Schampy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 5:25pm
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Yep the transition is simply happening way to quickly. With virtually zero infrastructure in place to support EVs- The only people that will benefit from any of this are those that can afford a brand new 100k electric car. Just nuts.
Im with Alan.... I think there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than what the labour government know about.
Gull are setting up a new Servo right here in Devonport. Praise the Lord!!. Ya can't tell me that Petrol and diesel is gonna get phased out anytime soon. (will make filling the boat a lot easier)
You wait for all the Road user charges to be heaped on EV drivers in the coming years once fuel revenue starts to drop. Have to pay for that ridiculous cycle way some how. 
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