C17 new project.

Page  <1 1415161718 21>
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 9:11am
Steps View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Franklin
Status: Offline
Points: 12849
I used to try and squeeze the loose ends of glass down, now I just leave them proud. Easier to cut or grind off later and less fairing.
 Bigger radius sorts that .. only needs a quick rub with bit of 40 or 80 git by hand to knock edges off.
Those radius between stringers/hull etc look tight as well. We used to put a generous line of bog down, drop/press the stringers into the bog, then radius what squeezes out either side.
There where some 'rules' in the workshop..1st thing when a lay up has cured enough.. hit and remove ALL dags....
Those sharp needles sticking up are the equivalent to working with stainless.. every time a cut is made the sharp edge is taken off THEN... never later.
Be it spikes in the hands or hands sliced on stainless..strict workshop rule practices..

Looking good.
Watch laying up in early morning and after 3pm ish.. this time of yr.. ambient temp drops hand high humidity.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 9:22am
Pcj View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 3201
If you want a nice cove around the stringers etc a stubbie bottle neck was what used.made a nice curve with little sanding.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 9:40am
OneWayTraffic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Amberley
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
Agreed on hitting the dags as soon as it's cured enough. However I had school to go to. It will get done the very next time I get on the boat. I've cut myself enough times on those needles to have learned that. Smile 

Ideally I'd be on it now to fill the weave and knock down the high spots before the epoxy gets to full cure, but with work and all that was never going to happen. I wanted to glass it Saturday and go over it on Sunday, but I got to work with the weather like you say. 


Plans recommend a 13mm radius fillet. Mines about that or a bit more. Less is ok if the glass will conform to the curve. On the outside I found the glass lifting off at the corners when I used less radius than 13mm, and had to redo a few. On the inside I've found that if I press the glass into the putty it will stick just fine to that 13mm. Obviously that varies: Biaxial will conform to a tighter curve than roving. 

Next steps, apart from tidying up the front compartment are cleats, gluing the foam blocks under the sole so water and air can circulate and getting ready for the sole. I can't do much else without buying more plywood. 




Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 8:24pm
OneWayTraffic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Amberley
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
Nice idea. I’m using a putty knife ground to a rounded edge for bigger fillets and a mixing stick for smaller ones.

I found a place inside the frame where I’ll have to redo the tape anyway. It had lifted, I was working semi blind in that corner; only saw it when I inspected this morning from the other side. No big deal. Quick sand and over with a bigger fillet and more tape.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 6:46pm
OneWayTraffic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Amberley
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
Time for a little update. I have not done a lot over winter but with longer days I can get it going again. There are cleats that run down both sides of stringers and frames that reinforce them and add gluing surface. Screwed and glued them into place and the removed screws and filled holes. Gave the cleats a roller coat of epoxy first to seal them. Should not ever be any water down there but it is a boat. Then a thick brush coat after gluing in place. Next time I’ll do two thin roller coats first. Easier and less waste. Cleats on the frames and sides are next. Also started putting some foam in. Block polyurethane foam glued in with spots of fairing mix. Will be built up to sole level for some extra support and stiffness. I’ll use some small tabs of glass to lock it into place here and there. Really don’t want it to move later. Then pour foam behind and above so any water can still make it way to the limbers or inspection ports.

Next steps: cleats foam paint outside and then get the sole on around early October.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2021 at 9:39am
OneWayTraffic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Amberley
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
Making progress on the cleats and underfloor foam. The foam sheets are glued in place with generous spots of epoxy/microballoon putty. I may use some tabs of glass to hold them in place as well, especially where the boat is subject to slamming. The gaps and holes will be filled with pour foam on the higher side of each compartment leaving a downhill section in each for inspection, ventilation and possible drainage. 

It's a lot of work and epoxy cutting coating and fitting the cleats. We are on a lockdown at the moment, so I have time. OD16s,18s and Tolman skiffs have the stringers as dimensional lumber or versalam LVL plywood. As a result no need for cleats, and in some cases less need for tape. Although it must be heavier, it would certainly save time and possibly epoxy. 

I fitted the bow eye yesterday. Most use 5200 or similar for this; I went a different route. 10mm 316SS U-bolt, in holes drilled out to 13mm. The small amount of exposed ply near the outside was given a coat or two of thickened epoxy using a stirstick, then checked the next day, after initial cure. Then G-flex thickened with Colloidial silica and Aluminiumn powder into the hole and a generous coating on the Ubolt itself. Pushed through the hole, under the washers and nuts tightened until squeeze out all around. The outside of the bolt near the hull was coated to protect against Crevice corrosion and water ingress. It will eventually be painted over to keep the UV out.

G-flex has several times more flexibility than regular epoxy and a lot more strength than any sealant. It's recommended for structural hardware fitting. Admittedly a much more expensive option, but I'd previously purchased a bottle. As a bonus it will provide extra strength with some bonding all the way through the boltholes.

Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2021 at 11:04am
Steps View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Franklin
Status: Offline
Points: 12849
Fitting bow eye.. I have snapped a couple over the yrs.. not because gauge too small but because the angle and height in relation to the winch.   As retieve up the loading being at an angle to the direction of how mounted.. and When loaded the angle should be  only slightly so holds the bow down over 'speed humps'
 Having the direction of the pins not right results in lot loading on only 1 of them and that being sideways.
Stainless is very brittle doesnt like side loading at all.. hence why dint use stainless shackles on the eye, or trailer chain or mounting trailer springs/ wobblies etc.

I have a thread several yrs back on it with pics.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2021 at 12:40pm
OneWayTraffic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Amberley
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
I thought through things like that, measuring and remeasuring the height. My gut tells me it's a bit low, but my Maths reckons it's right. This might be because the boat is at a slightly different angle on the cradle than on the trailer. 

 At the end of the day I'll never know until it's on the trailer. I may need to adjust the winch post, or something, but as far as the boat is concerned it's there for the duration. 

Minor but important detail to sort out later. Will ask the forum for advice when the time comes, but a lot to do first. 
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2021 at 6:57pm
OneWayTraffic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Amberley
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
Added a little sole to the front compartment. I like the flat bottom to the storage compartment, so put it in. Also it becomes a kind of 'stringer' to the boat between Frame A and B. Since that sole is now part of the structure it gets biaxial glass, of which I have plenty. Rough cut 9mm ply to shape with three holes cut with the holesaw, coated the underside with epoxy. Poured foam in the bottom, with the plywood just sitting on top. Glassed over yesterday, faired over after this photo. 

After that I cut sheets of the block foam to make a rough fit to the hull. After seeing the pours down the side find every little gap and hole I filleted down the foam with putty. This will prevent leaks and keep the foam in place while I wait for a warm day to pour foam in between the sheets and the stringers. I'll put an inspection port in the front middle later.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2021 at 4:08pm
OneWayTraffic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Amberley
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
Major milestone today. Just got it in while the sun was still shining and warm. Weather change this afternoon so I’m inside with a cup of tea and waffles looking at the wind and rain come in.

I was surprised at how fast that foam kicks off once mixed.

I’ll have some muffin tops to trim next weekend. Then off to get more plywood and get the sole on.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2021 at 4:09pm
OneWayTraffic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Amberley
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2021 at 9:31am
Steps View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Franklin
Status: Offline
Points: 12849
Tell us more about that foam.. looks like in bags?
Is it pre mixed in a bag and you break in inside and fit sort of thing?
If so this would get around foam absorbing water  in bulges?

Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2021 at 11:33am
OneWayTraffic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Amberley
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
I put a lot of thought into this, as I really don't want to be ripping off the sole and digging out sodden foam ten years down the road, nor do I want to end up a statistic. 

Standard 2 part polyurethane foam, that I bought from an industrial supplier in ChCh. The blocks are high density foam 100kg/cubic metre and the pour foam was partly the same high density and mostly a standard 33kg foam. All supposed to be closed cell. 

I am aware of the potential for it to absorb water. Apparently this is mainly due to not being mixed perfectly with a 1:1 ratio, at the right temp and humidity, or a bit of water gets in through where the denser skin has been cut and then through hydraulic action, slamming of the boat, or freeze thaw cyclesmigrates its way through over years.

Otherwise it is pretty waterproof, especially the polyurethane block foam made in a factory at optimum conditions which is therefore of higher quality. 

Thinking about all this the key in my mind is to a) do a good job of laying the foam b) keep water from sitting in there and c) allow a method of checking and removing water from compartments. The foam is there to allow me to sleep better at night without that nagging what if...

The middle compartment is by far the biggest. I glued two layers of high density block foam down the middle of it as a dam. This is quite strong; a small square will support my weight. Then high density 2 part pour on the inside of them to help secure and support. 

 Then multiple pours of the 2 part standard density foam between that and the stringers. That explains all the little muffin tops. One or two places where the 2 part didn't set off correctly, which I will mostly dig out and replace. Once I've cut it level I'll go about plugging and sealing any little places where water can gather. I'll keep the muffin tops for later if they are good. 

Outside compartments have the block foam just glued to the floor with some high density pour foam on the upper side between foam and chine. The high density takes longer to go off; I underestimated how far it would migrate. It does do a good job of plugging holes and water traps. 

Each side has two separate compartments, the middle just one big one. In either case the lowest part of every single compartment is left bare and uncovered. Should water ever get inside in any significant amount it will end up there and I will know about it. 

When the sole goes on it will be epoxy coated and glassed both sides and glassed in all around the perimeter as per the plans. There will be five inspection ports. Circular screw in type. To avoid leaks through these they will not be in places where water can gather. Two at the back will be partly up the vertical motorwell bulkhead, the other three will all be on the sole, but either inside a hatched compartment or at least under a shelf and on a raised surface. I'll seal them as well as I can, but no water should ever be sitting up against the inspection ports. There will be some small breather holes but not where water should get in, and if it does, I will know. 

The cockpit will be designed so that if and when rainwater gets in, it will run to the rear and either out the back or out two plugholes I'm putting in the sides. No nooks and crannies for it to accumulate. Benches will have either a sloped uphill side or gaps under to let water by, either salt, rain or when I hose it out. 

The boat will be stored outside but under a cover. I may get one custom made eventually. Thinking about a carport as well to keep UV and the worst of the rain off. 

If water ever gets into that foam I will be surprised. 

There will be foam under the gunwales as well for a measure of upright buoyancy. Not yet 100% sure what exactly it will look like. 

As you can see I didn't just come up with this plan over a couple of beers. 















Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2021 at 2:43pm
OneWayTraffic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Amberley
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
Bought the rest of the marine plywood yesterday. Prices are easily 50% higher than last year but what can you do? $800 later I had my 2 sheets of 6mm and 5 of 9mm. Enough to do the rest of the boat. As a bonus they were using some 4mm marine plywood as a cover sheet and they threw that in as well! Not sure what I’ll do with it yet: either T top or canoe.

Cut out the first part of the sole. Careful measuring gave an almost perfect fit. The sole will be glassed both sides and glassed in around its whole perimeter. Adds a lot of strength.

That's some pretty plywood. Almost a pity to bury it under glass and paint. 
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2021 at 3:06pm
smudge View Drop Down
Moderator - Ninja
Moderator - Ninja
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Te Toro
Status: Offline
Points: 32159
It would look like I'd have had more than a couple of beers if I was making it. Going to look good!
Best gurnard fisherman in my street
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2021 at 4:23pm
OneWayTraffic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Amberley
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
The front part will be the hardest due to the curve. I'll probably cut it slightly oversized then plane/grind/sand it to size. Still expect to need to put some filler bits in or use a lot of putty.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2021 at 5:52pm
Steps View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Franklin
Status: Offline
Points: 12849
Damn read your reply, then got busy and forgot all about it.
Couple things, an old story from decades back when doing abit of motor racing, that maybe able to be adapted.
 We made up the fiberglas shels for the race cars, then thought would be a good idea to have custom inlay of foam.
So got a big plastic bag, placed it in the seat, poured to foam on and while doing that the 'driver' sat in the seat.
We nearly killed him.Confused
It goes off pretty quick, he sat in  the seat, the bag expanding and expended around him.. like a python snake. Each time he breathed out the foam took up that space. We thought he was fooling around till started to go a funny colour and the knives came out.

The idea of putting bags into the cavities, pour a measured amount for give volume, and each compartment would be sealed from water ??

There is a very old thread here.. think was here, about placement of foam. If down low in the bulges, would tend to flip the boat over... and ideally would be better up under the gunnels.
Along those lines ..

Going good...
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2021 at 7:07pm
OneWayTraffic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Amberley
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
Funny story. I've heard about people pouring foam in sealed compartments only to have the lid blow off. Anyway it's in now and in it stays. Should be enough ventilation to keep it dry over time. 

If the boat ever gets swamped, the side buoyancy should help hold it upright. There will be some closed cell foam fastened to the seats, under the gunnels etc. Also the compartments along the sides will be hatched and sealed, and should keep water out for a few hours. If so then the twin 65mm scuppers should clear it fairly quickly. I'll note that some very well regarded NZ boats have no above sole buoyancy at all, and most rely on bilge pumps only. If I retain engine power I'll be ok. 

If not then the foam buoyancy along the bottom is really just in case water gets in under the sole. There's air there anyway. Won't help hold the boat upright but will keep it at the surface. If it ever gets to that stage, well I'm having a bad day. 

Should be as safe as any regular NZ trailer boat of that size short of Stabicraft types or Ribs. 

 
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2021 at 7:36pm
Steps View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Franklin
Status: Offline
Points: 12849
Was only commemting as general 'open' discussion not as direct ref to what you are doing at all...

OH hole in the wall house wall.. I built a new kitchen whiler back , from scratch, myself. Filling in all th old plumbing electric holes behind the bench (sealed no ants etc)
So pumped a bit of foam in.. All good.
 Till next day the wall was bowed a bit...  sorta expanded a little more over night..
Then was told, screw up newspaper and put in ...that takes up the extra expansion.
A 60yr old house , removed all the architraves and a gap at th top of the old wall board that was a little loose on the clouts. Foamed up the gap.. 24hrs sliced off access with sharp knife then plus 2 plaster for square joins..
Wall board went solid as , then 30+ yrs on , not a single crack in the ceiling to wall join .. thru the whole house.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2021 at 8:30pm
OneWayTraffic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Location: Amberley
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
Yeah ideally all the foam would be above the waterline, but it takes up a lot of space. Other advantages of being below are noise reduction and a little increased stiffness/strength in the hull. Couldn't put numbers on that last, but two part foam is used in hurricane areas to reinforce panels from wind load. 


Check about the 6:00 mark. 
Back to Top
Page  <1 1415161718 21>
Forum Jump
Forum Permissions View Drop Down


This page was generated in 1.334 seconds.

Fishing Reports Visit Reports

Saltwater Fishing Reports
Top of the South Fishing Report - 22/03/24

Tasman and Golden Bay snapper still running hot We are not far away from daylight... Read More >

22 Mar 2024
Saltwater Fishing Reports
Bay of Islands Fishing Report - 22/03/24

Variety is the spice of life On one recent trip, the plan was to spend a... Read More >

22 Mar 2024
Saltwater Fishing Reports
Hauraki Gulf Fishing Report - 22/03/24

Fish where the fish are! Catching fish or just going fishing? I tackle this issue... Read More >

22 Mar 2024
Saltwater Fishing Reports
Inner Hauraki Gulf Fishing Report - 22/03/24

Thoughtful tactics required for better fish Over the course of each year the fishing varies,... Read More >

22 Mar 2024
Fishing bite times Fishing bite times

Major Bites

Minor Bites

Major Bites

Minor Bites