Stray lining, your methods for success?

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Originally posted by terrafish terrafish wrote:

Firstly gotta figure out the current direction, and for me I use my gps with the engine in gear and note my s.o.g(speed on ground) and travel the four compass points as a min but the more you do against, the more you can lock it in. !


Yep GPS is certainly a good idea and why even if its just a waypoint handheld old school garmin it will do the job, but most people have dual fish finders now.

One thing I sometimes do is anchor up away from the spot and throw out pieces of bait to see which way the current is going to lie to how my boat is going to face, I usually do this when fishing a pinnacle. Then I know ahead of the spot which point on the boat to tie the boat up. 

Under currents certainly are a PITA. From a spearfishing perspective Im not sure all stick fisherman realise just how different they can be, especially near a pinnacle. The sway of the kinetic wave energy hitting the pinacle with the actual current can cause mayhem. But as Terra said there isnt much you can do about it. This is usually when I drop the berley cage on a float with weight 2m above the surface usually about 20-30m out from the pinnacle depending on the terrain hoping based on floating pillie cubes I have guessed the current right but either way I cast in between float and the pinnacle. Its not an exact science but snapper/fish will roam either up the water column or to wherever the smell the bait. I use this less now that we have GPS and GPS makes fishing under water pinnacles much easier clearly. 

The one thing about straylining rough ground is getting the fish away from the pinnacle fast if you feel some real weight on. Thats a whole another topic.

Overheads are great for walking out baits, there is one on Adventure and Fishing that Mig uses as a combo from Okuma that looked real sweet for this purpose and not too pricey. 

Good details Steps cheers.

I think one time where berley and straylining REALLY go well together is off the rocks. Can turn no bite into a bite real fast. Of course need some heavier tackle in this terrain but I really dont think it matters unless we talking over 100lb mono traces. I usually always fish mono off the rocks and fluorocarbon leaders as they have more abrasion resistance and supposed less visbility. I use a single hook and no weight to avoid snags in this scenario.

The Hauraki gulf is littered with good straylining landbased spots accessible by boat. 

Our own Fishwhisperer (deserves far more subscribers) and Scott at digital fish have some great videos on youtube on this. Thanks guys.

Speaking of youtube, outside the big guys back from corporations, Ultimate Fishing (matt) etc, Im not sure how NZ guys can get a slice of the youtube/patreon pie, yet some of our content is fantastic. Aussies seem to be able to get the subs and I know they arent all Aussie subs. Anyway, appreciate the effort our guys put in to keep us entertained.
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Does fishing really need to be this complicated. If the tide is running out it runs that way. When its coming in it runs the other way. Thats how i find it
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Does fishing really need to be this complicated. If the tide is running out it runs that way. When its coming in it runs the other way. Thats how i find it


Nothing wrong with chatting about the finer points is there? Dont have to read or post etc :-)

Short answer: No

Long answer: Tides, currents, backwash, all operate differently at different levels of water, sometimes. So to circumnahivate this I use the float berley cage method. This allows me to position my berley wherever it needs to be without worrying about tides as its close locality to the reef will pull the fish out.

The rest of the chat is how position the boat and the best ways to go about it. Nothing wrong with picking up pointers from other people. Never too old to learn a new trick :-)

Or back to the short answer. Just go out in the ocean, throw a floating bait somewhere (over sand likely) and hope a fish comes a long ;-p

Cirrus its just picking up ideas from other people as when wind is a against tide and you do have under currents and under water surges it does impact the berley trail, if dropped under the boat. 

If just berleying in shallow water, its definitely short answer.
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Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Does fishing really need to be this complicated. If the tide is running out it runs that way. When its coming in it runs the other way. Thats how i find it


Nothing wrong with chatting about the finer points is there? Dont have to read or post etc :-)

I'm somewhere in between both of you. Interesting discussion, but it's a fine line between paying attention to details and overthinking things. A couple of thoughts:

Whatever the current does to your burley it will probably also do to your bait, unless it is running really strongly and you need to use lots of weight to get down/stay down. If it is running hard, or you are in really deep water, then trying to use burley is going to be a guessing game anyway. 

The current doesn't normally change direction half way down, but if it does how are you ever going to know ? Even if you went OTT and used a current profiler, how accurately do you think you can calculate the strike zone and get your bait into it ? 

Wind against tide only affects how your boat sits, not how your baits or burley drift. Put up with the discomfort, or awkward fishing direction, hope you can avoid tangling your fish with your anchor rope, or pick another spot today. Wink
 
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Originally posted by waynorth waynorth wrote:

[QUOTE=FizFisho]

I'm somewhere in between both of you. Interesting discussion, but it's a fine line between paying attention to details and overthinking things. A couple of thoughts:
 

I hear ya. There isnt much you can do. And the reality is as long as the burley is heading somewhere close enough to the pinnacle its going to draw out the fish. Thats why I like using the burley on buoy method. Then I usually anchor up side on to it but cast into the imagined line of burley flow. But thats just something I picked up and use ocassionally. I only do it for fast rising pinnacles. But the basic method would work just as good. More important is the constant burley. I keep my frames and old bait etc and just make basic bombs. Ive been thinking about adding some kina into the mix as reef snapper go gnarley over Kina, I see it when spearing, its like Piranha swam.

Generally I just check the current flow first, then anchor up, if not facing correctly its just changing the rope cleat. 

it wasnt meant to be a thread to be all super serious. But there are some tips that people new to fishing might pick up. 

One of the biggest ones IMO is using very big hooks, 9/0 minimum. Undersize fish get caught on them. I always use circle hooks as well and dont wait for the fish to swallow, or I use a livebait hook on a live bait. As seen in this video, a snapper will have no issue swallowing a medium sized KY. 

Straylining at its most basic. Out of interest, this was where that white pointer would leave the boats prop alone recently lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0dm5OPjus0
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Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

Ive been thinking about adding some kina into the mix as reef snapper go gnarley over Kina, I see it when spearing, its like Piranha swam.

Do it. I too was a diver in a previous life, and snapper are one of the few fish that will take on a whole kina. Break some up underwater and everybody joins the party. In Cook Strait where I learned my trade it was the blue cod that would get most of the roe - fearless fish that would almost eat out of your hand, and happily take a finger if you weren't careful. Salt water pirhana indeed.

Before hanging up my fins I spent a bit of time whilst diving up here in the BOI just watching fish in the burley trail. Chunks of burley seldom made it to the bottom - the jack macs, kahawai, and especially blue maomao and sweep vacuumed up all the visible bits long before they made it to the bottom. Being mostly on SCUBA I seldom saw snapper - too spooky, and although kingfish were often present, they seldom fed.

If I was making burley, I would mince everything as finely as possible & add plenty of oil, crushed kina if I could get it, & filler like chook mash - you want to excite the fish not feed them. Follow up with baits the small-mouthed fish can harass but not tear apart or swallow.
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Originally posted by waynorth waynorth wrote:


If I was making burley, I would mince everything as finely as possible & add plenty of oil, crushed kina if I could get it, & filler like chook mash - you want to excite the fish not feed them. Follow up with baits the small-mouthed fish can harass but not tear apart or swallow.

Bang on. Really really important part of using berley in straylining.Most of us know all this stuff, but I just thought sharing some tips on one of the simplest methods of fishing might help people out.

There are a lot of videos on youtube on how to make berley for snaps ec. Left over frames, old bait, fresh bait not used, chook pellets. But I reckon some totall smashed up kina minus the row might go down a treat.

You so lucky. BOI is where Im looking at, Opito bay Rd, around the marina. Or Tutukaka. Have 10 years to decide so no rush haha.

But yeah, watching snapper fight over Kina is nuts.

Supposedly the Poor Knights are an anomally in the sense there are little in the way of Bronzies and the snapper are the Apex predator. Its noted in a biology report so Im going with it. But I seldom see sharks out there like I do at say Tiri.

It would just be nuts if it were legal to crack open some kinas in the the shallower reefs at PK's, would make awesome video. 

Which leads me to the only time I buy berley is when I want to avoid the tax man I buy some mussel berley. Not often, but it is good stuff.
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Does fishing really need to be this complicated. If the tide is running out it runs that way. When its coming in it runs the other way. Thats how i find it
Good Point Cirrus! If you were to take a bit of everyones oppinion to set yourself up straylining and do wot you thought was right by the time you got a bait over the side be time to come home! Straylining is the simplest form of fishing, why do you guys make it sound so complicated? Use large circle hooks, I'm talking Hapuka size, you won't catch the smaller fish. 3-4 kg Snaps are the smallest i catch Straylining. An open boat best then you can cast which ever way the current runs straight away. Also Fibre glass or plastic, the less boat noise the better. Many a time I have had tin boats fishing close to me in shallows trying to replicate wot I do. I'm catching alot of big Snapper no one else getting them and one by one they head off out deep to try there luck. Beer
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Does fishing really need to be this complicated. If the tide is running out it runs that way. When its coming in it runs the other way. Thats how i find it

Yep.. head 'upstream from the target point...where you THINK.. then watch the drift back.
 under currents and stuff are around the foul  not so much the area to it.
Then you have the current drift  in a light breeze (reality is one doesnt anchor up in a wind/ chop, or need to.)
 Then mark the target spot , chug upstream allowing for the lines to drift back..AND the anchor angle/distance... add a bit more. Throw the pick.
Pretty simple.
 Them with colored braid you have a good idea how far back the hook drifts.
 At some point u start to get activity, catch fish.
 Note the number colours on the braid and drift the line back to that spot each time.

Better still stray line drift over the foul/pinnacles...line up so drift between all the other boats and when pull the fish up sort of discretely...espec on the 2nd and 3rd drifts...
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Agree with snappa geoff. Far too complicated. If you were to take into account all the info here you would suffer from paralysis by analysis. You wouldn't bother going out.

Get a bait in the water, get it down and adjust accordingly as conditions vary
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Regardless of which way the tide is running need to be sure there are fish there to catch?? Get line to bottom,nothing happens wind up a couple of feet,give it 1/2hr to 1hr nothing move on,simple.
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Originally posted by foulplay foulplay wrote:

Agree with snappa geoff. Far too complicated. If you were to take into account all the info here you would suffer from paralysis by analysis. You wouldn't bother going out.

Get a bait in the water, get it down and adjust accordingly as conditions vary
Ya hit the nail on the head there foulplay!LOL
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Snappa geoff. You mention boat noise. That tinnies in your area often dont catch much in shallows. I have a frewza tinny and dont have that problem in shallow. Would imagine any boat full of enthused fishermen would emit noise.  Have thought that fish ,especially big wary snapper actually see the shadow of the boat and keep clear . Or in high current the vibration of current on the anchor could scare them .
You also mentioned you dont use burley. I thought i was the only one. Any reason you dont use it.
Learned to strayline on the wellington west coast.That was my introduction to fishing when young. Unweighted whole piper, yelloweye mullet and especially whole or head half of bluecod were the bait de jour. Always shallow water. Low or no current. Our boat then was a double ended kauri clinker 16foot. Almost all straylined snapper were over 8lb, most 10-15lb.
Could sometimes see 4-5 other big snapper following the hooked fish up. Only non strayline fishing was very deep for Puka, big blue cod ,some going 10lb or terakihi up to 8lb.
Often fished shallow for smaller terakihi ,gurnard etc on change of light. No strayline here,just ledger rig over the side. Often crayfish would walk off with the bait ,get hooked or tangled up. Frustrating at times when wanting to catch "real" fish.
Up here in A.K there is often current and cant strayline in that as bait would be pushed near the surface by the current.
Weight required in those conditions.



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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Snappa geoff. You mention boat noise. That tinnies in your area often dont catch much in shallows. I have a frewza tinny and dont have that problem in shallow. Would imagine any boat full of enthused fishermen would emit noise.  Have thought that fish ,especially big wary snapper actually see the shadow of the boat and keep clear . Or in high current the vibration of current on the anchor could scare them .
You also mentioned you dont use burley. I thought i was the only one. Any reason you dont use it.
Learned to strayline on the wellington west coast.That was my introduction to fishing when young. Unweighted whole piper, yelloweye mullet and especially whole or head half of bluecod were the bait de jour. Always shallow water. Low or no current. Our boat then was a double ended kauri clinker 16foot. Almost all straylined snapper were over 8lb, most 10-15lb.
Could sometimes see 4-5 other big snapper following the hooked fish up. Only non strayline fishing was very deep for Puka, big blue cod ,some going 10lb or terakihi up to 8lb.
Often fished shallow for smaller terakihi ,gurnard etc on change of light. No strayline here,just ledger rig over the side. Often crayfish would walk off with the bait ,get hooked or tangled up. Frustrating at times when wanting to catch "real" fish.
Up here in A.K there is often current and cant strayline in that as bait would be pushed near the surface by the current.
Weight required in those conditions.



Hi Cirrus thanks for reply. Boat noise from tinnies is  my own observation from wot i see down here, maybe i'm wrong and its something else like the way the people on them are fishing. your Strayline methods are very similar to myself running big fresh baits and getting results. Often people refer to big Snapper as wary etc to get that big, but i believe they are dumb fish and easier to catch than smaller ones. One of my secrets i have a third strayline baited in rod holder ready to go. Okay a big one gets away with a bait thats down  a head, fillet or wotever. If you cast the spare baited rod as quick as you can to that area the same Snap will go for it 99% of the time for another chance to hook it. cut open the guts and theres your first bait! On Burley, Im not really interested in attracting alot of small fish to my boat, i would rather wait patiently for the bigger ones to come my way  and sniff out my big fresh baits natually. Plus the cost, a usual trip for me is $5 of gas and a bag of pillies to catch the Kahawai etc for fresh bait. The old Kauri Clinker fishing days sound great. Any photo's of boat? Beer 
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I think the points to be gained here are figuring out what works for you, in the area you fish, for how you fish. Never gunna figure that out in out in one trip, but to take a bit of this, a pinch of that, and a handful of something else, then voila, all of a sudden things fall into place.
I Know for me, it was a hard road to my first 20, with many falling so close but not there. When the first one came along, a few things clicked. After that, things sort of just started falling in place.
Geoff brings up a good point about big snaps being not entirely smart. Have had two known encounters with the same customer. 1st one still had hook and bait in gob after busting off and decided to try again, wasn't so lucky second time round. 2nd one was a nice fish of 22 and when it was brought on board for a quick pic it was noted that there was a distinct hand print round the wrist of its tail from someone elses previous encounter. Quick laugh about how lucky it was and let it go. Half hr or so later, we hooked another reasonable fish, and as it come into sight we were surprised at its size compared to its fight and thought it looked similar in size to the last fish. When it was netted and brought onboard the first thing that stood out was the identical handprint! Unfortunately that was the end of the road for that fish. Possibly a coincidence but I doubt it.
For me burley is not essential but preferable to bring the fish out of the heavy shallow foul into a more achievable location, and I'm prepared to lose baits to smaller fish but mitigate this by using tougher baits or steaking kys and mullet in order to present less flesh to the pickers and slow the little sods down and give something worthy half a chance.
And unfortunately for me, I have to feed my 90hp $10 worth of gas and use a set of sabikis!
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Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

Originally posted by waynorth waynorth wrote:


If I was making burley, I would mince everything as finely as possible & add plenty of oil, crushed kina if I could get it, & filler like chook mash - you want to excite the fish not feed them. Follow up with baits the small-mouthed fish can harass but not tear apart or swallow.


Bang on. Really really important part of using berley in straylining.Most of us know all this stuff, but I just thought sharing some tips on one of the simplest methods of fishing might help people out.

There are a lot of videos on youtube on how to make berley for snaps ec. Left over frames, old bait, fresh bait not used, chook pellets. But I reckon some totall smashed up kina minus the row might go down a treat.

You so lucky. BOI is where Im looking at, Opito bay Rd, around the marina. Or Tutukaka. Have 10 years to decide so no rush haha.

But yeah, watching snapper fight over Kina is nuts.

Supposedly the Poor Knights are an anomally in the sense there are little in the way of Bronzies and the snapper are the Apex predator. Its noted in a biology report so Im going with it. But I seldom see sharks out there like I do at say Tiri.

It would just be nuts if it were legal to crack open some kinas in the the shallower reefs at PK's, would make awesome video. 

Which leads me to the only time I buy berley is when I want to avoid the tax man I buy some mussel berley. Not often, but it is good stuff.


The poor knights (PKs) as am sure you are aware are a Marine reserve and berleying inside to attract fish is very frowned upon... likely to cause snapper to bite people snorkelling once they quickly go into a frenzy.

However point of my post is the even very large snapper 30lb plus which are quite a few there (like ones that frequent the northern arch) are not the apex predators at the PKs... in and around the reserve bronzes maybe less common, but the mighty mako in a range of sizes would be the king of the hood out there... and will come in surprising close as they do at places like Home Point.
Burleying in many situations can have impact of attracting undesirable species both smaller fish pickers and even large predators, or even moving fish away from your baits if drift is wrong. Has merits in rock fishing where you want to attract fish closer to where you can deploy a bait. I don't use burley from kayak, because I don't actually need it.
Hope this helps .. may be not. If fish you want to catch are there you can often it seems do better without berley.
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Have far to many stories to tell on big Snap straylining, but a couple that come to mind, back ten years ago when i started boat fishing Straylining had completed a successful morning fishing. Heading home came across a big boil up of Kahawai. I decided to run a lure and load up on bait. Caught about ten turned off motor, and proceeded to gut and cut tails off throwing over side. For some reason i decided to put a big tail on a rod and send it over while cleaning the Kahawai. Just before finishing the rod screamed off! five or so minutes later i had a 12.9 kg Snap on boat. Back then a new P.B. This fish had every tail Id'e thrown over in its guts and others still poking out of its gob when boated! plus the baited one. They are such Gluttens when feeding! Another time which has happened more than once  the bigger fish 25 pounder plus size will not be happy with one big bait they go for two in quick succession, and your  hooked up on two straylines.Beer   
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Originally posted by waynorth waynorth wrote:


However point of my post is the even very large snapper 30lb plus which are quite a few there (like ones that frequent the northern arch) are not the apex predators at the PKs... .

It is refering to apex of the reef system Of course the Bronzies and Makos (which like everywhere out that way chasing tuna can be 20ft) are apex predators.

But the point he was making is the reef system is dominated by snapper at the top level of the food chain. Which is an anomaly.

As most people will know from marine biology, the sign of a healthy reef system is large shark numbers. Having snapper take this function truly is rare. If this is occuring. I will look for some biology Papers to see if anyone has submitted one yet.

RE: Burley in the Marine reserve, most DEFINITELY a no go, its illegal to crush a Kina. And as Shane has said could be dangerous even, which was my point when stating in a hypothetical situation the Snapper frenzy the would occur.

Originally posted by Snappa Geoff Snappa Geoff wrote:

Use large circle hooks, I'm talking Hapuka size, you won't catch the smaller fish. 3-4 kg Snaps are the smallest i catch Straylining.a

100%. I have caught 15cm snapper on 10/0 circle hooks. Snapper have no issues with big hooks. Its about getting big baits that by the time the bait gets out the back of the boat there is still a large quantiy left for the large snap. Whole KY, butterfly Jack macs etc etc.

Geoff I also agree re tinnies. But a lot of better quality tinnies are changing, using heavier plate hulls, using cork footing (this is a big one), I know Extreme boats focus on reduction of noise and there boats are far more glass like in operation. 

But the average 12ft fyran does put out a lot of clinking and clunking lol

----------

Guys its not hard to apply a few new tips, this isnt about changing your system, you might not pick up anything useful from this thread, but there is a lot of useful info. So it not paralysis by analysi, unless you are starting from the beginning of this most simple method of fishing in which case I would refer the person back to the fishing.net.nz article link I posted. Then slowly apply some of these tricks in different conditions etc.
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Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:


Geoff I also agree re tinnies. But a lot of better quality tinnies are changing, using heavier plate hulls, using cork footing (this is a big one), I know Extreme boats focus on reduction of noise and there boats are far more glass like in operation.


Ha, have you even been for a fish on an Extreme? I did a trip on a 645GK and it felt just as "tinny" as our Stabi, which is to say, very very very much like a tinny.

The only "tinny" that looks like it might get close to glass-esque is a Dickey, I've only perved at them at the ramp though.
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Lets not side track the thread about boat brands and opinions, the point is some ally boats have come a long way in reducing hull noise optional or standard build.

Anyway, back on topic. Sometimes when straylining in deep water I will also set a slide bait, ckearly berley attracts all fish, but a big Keply snap will have no probs leaving the reef to go up the water column to swallow a live KY. Its just hedging bets on the berley more than straylining. but I find they compliment each other providing the slide bait is not close to the strayline for tangles etc. The bye catch that I usually hope to hit is JDory, in which case I wont use a large KY even though they can handle it, Jack Macs really are the perfect all round live bait. Clearly would not be doing so if I was sharing the cockpit.


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