Reccs are taking too much

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 1:07pm
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My general synopsis of our local fishery over 30 yrs would be;
Puka - decimated
Gurnard - a fraction of what they used to be
Snapper - fraction of what they used to be
Kahawhai - prob a bit hit and miss on this - but they seemed to be very short supply 5-10 yrs ago and possibly picking up now
Terakihi - prob stable, but patchy - some areas that used to be good don't yield anything now - and a fair bit of this is I think rec pressure - because they are localised.
Spiny Dogs - used to be minor, now plague proportions. Sometimes better to pack up and go home. How come the trawlers don't clean them out? Croc?
The fishing did improve last summer compared to the last 5-10 yrs - we even caught some snapper. I can't help wondering the HB Seafoods boats impounded had an effect. They trawled our area constantly - 3 days up/down a white trawler. Finally gone, next morning a red trawler doing same. Repeat. To maybe 0.5 km off the beach and out to 7km (puka).
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 1:10pm
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Prob worth noting - our spot is a useful benchmark - the rec pressure (unlike most areas) really has not changed over 30 yrs.
Isolated beach area, beach launch (no ramp), over the surf and over a reef (at the same time) , need a tractor to launch. It is a bit self limiting so the fishing is from those with boats/baches and a handful of local farmers. So that has not really changed in 30 yrs.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 1:58pm
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Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:


Also it provides jobs. We would be screwed without the comms.

How do you figure? It's about 3% of our export economy, and directly or indirectly employs about 13000 people, or maybe 0.3% of the population. It's pretty important to those 13000 people, but if commercial fishing ceased to exist in New Zealand tomorrow, all it would mean is I had to make my own berley and catch more of my own bait. Although presumably that would be trivial, due to the massive abundance of fish that would be present within a few years... hell I would just lure fish in the interim. 
Honestly I suspect that a decent slice of the jobs/economic production would be taken up by the increase in fishing tourism, from visitors coming to "the country that banned commercial fishing".

I'm all for it. The return we get on the relative ruination of our fisheries is ****.




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Originally posted by Rozboon Rozboon wrote:

Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:


Also it provides jobs. We would be screwed without the comms.

How do you figure? It's about 3% of our export economy, and directly or indirectly employs about 13000 people, or maybe 0.3% of the population. It's pretty important to those 13000 people, but if commercial fishing ceased to exist in New Zealand tomorrow, all it would mean is I had to make my own berley and catch more of my own bait. Although presumably that would be trivial, due to the massive abundance of fish that would be present within a few years... hell I would just lure fish in the interim. 
Honestly I suspect that a decent slice of the jobs/economic production would be taken up by the increase in fishing tourism, from visitors coming to "the country that banned commercial fishing".

I'm all for it. The return we get on the relative ruination of our fisheries is ****.




https://www.nzmrf.org.nz/files/New-Zealand-Fishing-Economic-Report.pdf

It all begins with fishers’ spending, which totals about $946 million each year. This is a lot of money, but it is not the whole equation. These dollars then circulate through the national economy supporting 8,100 jobs and stimulating $1.7 billion in total economic activity. And there is growth potential too. Participation in both fresh and saltwater fishing increased by 10 percent between 2008 and 2014, and if fisheries are kept strong and resilient, can grow even more. In economic terms alone, recreational fishing is a substantial and critical industry in New Zealand. Like other industries, its lifeblood is the revenues received from its customers who, in this case, are fishers. The many firms who support fishers include retailers, boat builders, tackle manufacturers, suppliers, marinas, motels, restaurants, charters, media and more. They employ thousands of people who work hard to ensure fishermen can enjoy their day out on the water. In the absence of economic data on the recreational fishing industry the government tends to favour commercial interests who can easily quantify their activity through landings and sales data. But New Zealand has too often overlooked the significant contributions generated by marine recreational fishers.

 New insights provided by the economic study shows New Zealand receives around $136 million in GST revenues and $52 million in personal income tax annually from the recreational fishing industry. Through these mechanisms recreational fishers are ‘paying their way’; contributing not only to the cost of fisheries management but also to the greater, common good.

How much do the big companies to fish??NIL ,probably get a rebate for exporting?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote fish-feeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 4:09pm
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I can't work out why,or how kahawai is sold overseas at a couple of bucks a kg for salmon food and we have to pay over 10 bucks a kg to eat it?
dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.
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Prices Tuesday
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote fish-feeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 4:43pm
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Bought some hoki at $10 a kg 2wks ago,quality was good,so bought another kg today.
My kids like it more than other fish. Also saw kingfish for sale,and hapuka.....size of the steaks was pathetic,at $38 or so a kilo. I remember eating hapuka as a kid of 10,when it was cheap,no way in hell I'd pay that much for any fish these days.
dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.
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Trevally @ $38 a kg raised my eyebrow
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Trevally @ $38 a kg raised my eyebrow
Hope thats smoked with a parsley sauce and fresh season vegetables served with a glass of chardonnay?


And what did the fisherman get $1.80 on a good day??
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 6:40pm
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Legasea fully endorses the methodology. I am fascinated to hear from the Legasea supporters as to why they disagree with Legasea on this?

To quote Legasea:

"Truth is New Zealand has a world-leading way of estimating recreational catch."


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 6:50pm
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Originally posted by the croc the croc wrote:





Legasea fully endorses the methodology. I am fascinated to hear from the Legasea supporters as to why they disagree with Legasea on this?

To quote Legasea:

"Truth is New Zealand has a world-leading way of estimating recreational catch."




Funny enough Legasea has failed to comment, yet their own advisors have been quick to condemm the results. Know doubt they will say that these were their own personal opinions and not Legasea's views.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 6:58pm
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Yep the raging success that was the last census.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 8:34pm
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

My general synopsis of our local fishery over 30 yrs would be;
Puka - decimated
Gurnard - a fraction of what they used to be
Snapper - fraction of what they used to be
Kahawhai - prob a bit hit and miss on this - but they seemed to be very short supply 5-10 yrs ago and possibly picking up now
Terakihi - prob stable, but patchy - some areas that used to be good don't yield anything now - and a fair bit of this is I think rec pressure - because they are localised.
Spiny Dogs - used to be minor, now plague proportions. Sometimes better to pack up and go home. How come the trawlers don't clean them out? Croc?
The fishing did improve last summer compared to the last 5-10 yrs - we even caught some snapper. I can't help wondering the HB Seafoods boats impounded had an effect. They trawled our area constantly - 3 days up/down a white trawler. Finally gone, next morning a red trawler doing same. Repeat. To maybe 0.5 km off the beach and out to 7km (puka).
Alan


I'm sorry to read this Alan. Every summer holidays, and alot of the winter ones, I went to my Grandpop's in Te Awanga. Ive got a picture on my wall of a huge snapper my dad caught just over the reef there. The stuff of legend. Are HB seafoods back on the water yet ?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 8:39pm
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Yes - HB Seafoods up and running again - under a different name - Iwi bought them. But the management remains the same - the crooks are still in there.
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Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 8:47pm
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I have to say I think our cray fishery is a success. It is probably in similar shape to 30 yrs ago. Went thru a rough patch 5-10 yrs ago, but last 2-3 yrs as good as it has been. I only fish 2 pots generally, and is the one fish I take my limit bag if available. They are not hard to give away and for many it may the only cray they have all year. But one cray a day for wife and I is enough or more than these days. Very good relationship with the local commercial guys and nobody raiding pots etc.
No more than 1-2k from beach all season, altho others go steaming off into the distance in search of gold. They are close by if you know where to look.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 9:43pm
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Croc, I am not sure where MacIndoe stands on this survey stuff . I had a meeting with him at our beach about 18 mths ago, over a few wines. My concern was that Legasea was going to focus on the Hauraki Gulf issues, while there were real issues elsewhere like HB. He was very well versed in the local problems (and the Desposito/HB Seafood  mob)and was clearly of the opinion HB fishery had been pillaged and raped. He seemed very up to date in what was going on.
On another note I omitted Blue Cod status;
Fraction of previous. My take on it is rec fishing. Has declined markedly over last 10-15 yrs. And my conclusion is that it is in response to the decline of the general fishery. When a holiday boatie can't get a feed of gurnard and stumbles over a stash of BC, he fills the bin. Unfortunately. Slow growing, territorial, not hard to wipe out a population. I am not sure if all rec fishers know the pressure they can put on stock like that. Take a couple, leave the rest in peace til you need some next time. But unfortunately, it doesn't take many who think differently to damage the resource.
I am careful who I take out in my boat, and where I take them.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 9:49pm
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Originally posted by the croc the croc wrote:


Legasea fully endorses the methodology. I am fascinated to hear from the Legasea supporters as to why they disagree with Legasea on this?

To quote Legasea:

"Truth is New Zealand has a world-leading way of estimating recreational catch."




I dont see any one rushing to answer this question
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 3:59pm
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Not quite sure what you were getting at there Tzer, but I will have a go.
There is not really enough data points on the research data that Croc posted to make any long term comparison - but as Croc stated, it generally seems to tie well with the club data.
I have only just been thru it, since posting my own gut assessment of last 30 yrs. I think it agrees pretty well with what I posted. It shows the poor kahawai stocks as I noted for 5-10 yrs previous. It doesn't go back beyond that so what it misses is the earlier period where kahawai were abundant well beyond current levels. In my first few yrs fishing there, big workups/meatballs of them would thrash the surface water. Would see them as a regular fishing occurrence and often Y/F under them. I haven't seen such an event for years. There would be people fishing there now who have never seen it. And Y/F are now non-existent in the area too, whereas they used to be commercially fished in our fishery in the 90s.
I think the terakihi asssessment is close to what I stated, as is the snapper. The one I would have an issue with is the gurnard. Whether there is a difference in the trawling activity in the Napier bay compared to ours, I don't know. I do suspect we are is a go-to spot when things get a bit tough out further weatherwise or fishing wise. They get a bit of lee shelter from the southerly storms and can still do several days trawling between the headlands (Kidnappers and Pauanui point).
So, generally speaking, I think the Croc data is reasonably close to what I have seen, but that data only covers half the span I am talking off. If you had the first half data, I think you would find a big decline from original stocks. In other words this data set is monitoring a period after the bulk of depletion had already occurred. The previous generation to me tell of catching puka in 30m off the reef system. Unheard of in my lifetime fishing there. 70m was productive, now nothing is, as far as puka goes. So I think the data is generally monitoring the bottom of the trough, more or less.
just my best shot at it.
Regards
Alan 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 4:23pm
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Alan L

I think the point croc was making is that Leagsea fully endorses the methodology and states that the truth is New Zealand has a world-leading way of estimating recreational catch.

Now so far since the survey results have come out Leagsea themselves haven't publicly endorsed the latest results, but many of their supporters as well as some of their own team have severely criticized the results. So is this double standards or are they being hypocrites.


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