The Fragility of a Kingy Flat

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    Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 6:45pm
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So I wasout  at my favourite yesterday.
one kingy seen, I got a good shot and eat, Big fight but lost him when line got a bit slack when I was turning around to fire up the Honda.
 
Anyways  this area has been on my mind.
Last few summers, consistent as hell.
when ya there at a certain tide phase yould always see fish.
sometimes only a couple, sometimes up to 6.
 
But this year has been different.
theres a couple of others that ocassionally fish it that I no of.
And I and they have been regurly blanked.
Alarm bells started ringing when a local informed me of others with stick baits .Then there was a set net being regurly set.
them yesterday I encountered a yakker, with4 rods out trolling.
He had a sense of purpose about him and seemed to no where the fish were most likely be, so nothing random here.
 
As weve learnt from present and past tagging programs, they arrive[in the shallows] at the beginning of summer and leave at the end and hang around the same area and return to that area the following summer. Will this area repopulate next summer. who nos.
 
Anyways, this aint a dig at anyone,[ie the world assumes sometimes that all Flyrodders 'catch and release' which just isn't true] theres nothing dodgy going on here, its just that as ya all no ive searched all over the Auckland area, and this place was the best id found.i suppose being in the outskirts of a big city it was never gonna stay great[regurly had beach walkers seeing me getting towed around!]
Just a hard pill to swallow.
at the end of the day, its sight fishing to large fish on a shallow sand flat, 40 minutes from home.Very Special and very fragile. 
 
Lets hope other fish repopulate the area next summer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Uncle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 7:10pm
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Any bowhunters around there Adam?
They're the buggars to watch out for.
No respect for the fragility, just their own buzz.Unhappy
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It’s happening. That spot where Craig got his fish I’ve seen 3 boats other than mine with fly fishers iaboard and if I’m thinking of the spot you’re talking Adam, I’ve seen a jetskier in there stick baiting. Too much to hope that any spot will be completely secret.

It’s still a quality flat and when the fish are working it hard it’s mind blowing. I can’t wait for next summer when I’m mobile again...
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And I have a regular group of spearos whom swim along one of the best trophy snapper hunting grounds in the north and disrupt all the snapper that hang out in the very shallow water. I pack up my fly gear and go home when the spearos are there. Are they disrupting the location and making it a spot where snapper won't hang out in the shallows anymore? Possibly.

But I did read with interest that Hobson Bay was a traditional netting ground for haku (kingfish) in the old days (long before the road went in ). Presumably Maori netted kingis there every summer, and possibly did so for a very long time, but the kings kept on returning.

Sure, there was probably a whole lot more kingfish around in those days . Back-up stock were never very far away. Interesting though.

At the end of the day I am not too worried about competing with fellow 'recreationals'. As long as we get our fair share of the total catch.

Having started kingfish fishing way back when Japanese box net 'experimentation' was ripping the guts out of the northern kingfish fishery, then growing up through the snapper boom, the netting boom, and the kahawai rape and pillage I'm just happy if the QMS gives us some chance to catch a fish. With the kingfish fishery I think it is.

Sitting on a beach- back in the day - at my favourite fishing spot, watching tonnes of kahawai and kingfish getting netted by commercial fishers with tin boats and tractors was enough to make anyone cry. Luckily this doesn't seem to happen anymore ( I presume the cost of quota has moved the fishing away from the cheap operators who flogged the easy stuff).

So I can live with some heavy pressure from fellow recreationals.

It sure would be nice to ban the nets and the bow hunters, but at least there are kingfish to fish for and the situation is a whole lot better than it has been in the not-too-distant past.


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Talking with Dick Marquand who many of you may know or heard of who fishes the Tauranga flats every day if the weather allows has stated that this is the worst year that he has seen for a lack of kingfish on the flats - he has seen very little in the way of ray riders this season and only the odd solitary fish.

I know the stick bait boys have been hammering the hell out of Sulphur Point removing a lot of fish and bad handling of the ones that go back by dragging them up on the rocks ect so survival rates will be low I guess.

I wonder if the constant pressure on them is playing a part or maybe the habour temps were just too high for comfort this season - who knows - just hope that this won't be a future trend.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Millsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 9:14am
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Good observations team.

I can concur on one theme already. In my observations, particularly seeing kings I have tagged return daily to the same areas(often until I have tagged all of them), kings are like brown trout. They have a beat and they patrol it with the tides. 

They can definitely be removed from the area if people take them, no doubt. So many times I have heard people exclaim "lot of kings about I've see "X" amount at marker "A"". What they are seeing is the same school of fish using a marker or reef as a home base. I have seen those area's fished out over the course of a few weeks in the past. It's just ignorance or greed.

Another stat that may interest ya'll is the commercial size for take is 65cm. Around 80% of the kings that a fly fisho's will run into of the flats are between 60-75cm. Doesn't take to much science to predict what would happen to a fly fisho's home turf should a gill net show up. In fact I have seen what happens and have moved as a result. You loose your fishery for a season.

I think most people would agree our fishing reg's in general need a huge overhaul. Limits are obscene and non seasonal.

We have collapsed a 1/3 of the oceans stocks already. 90% of our oceans fish stocks are occupy 10% of the coast line.The 10% that we humans generally fish in. I'm sure people think they oceans are just a constant source of fish that restock our food lockers. 

Ignorance is bliss until you hit the ground.





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One thing that is disturbing me in my own local fishery is the amount of facebook heroes bragging about catching their limits which seems to fire up other wannabe facebook heroes into trying to do the same - it doesn't take rocket science to work out that a local fishery can not sustain this sort of pressure from the recreational fisher especially added to the already enormous pressure applied the the commercial sector.

It scares me to think that our fishery will become like Asias fishery where their are no fish - people need learn to think about the future rather than plundering the now.
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Had a light ale with Silvio the other day. He told me the realities of Golden Bay - only two really good spots and heaps of anglers. Lots of fly guys but also 'others'. He saw the fishing when it was just being discovered and had some fantastic action. I'm guessing he won't be going back now.

The moral of this story could be "find another flat". I spied five or six highly likely looking areas on Google Earth in the Auckland area. I bet most of them have never seen a fly angler.

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Auckland area is pretty big and covers wholly or parts of 3 harbours.. if you're talking Waitemata I'd bet those flats have been scoped Craig, or most of them have. There's a bunch of guys spending a lot of time searching, and not talking about it here, which is good in a way.
 
###
 
Long live Golden Bay I say. I've spoken to guys in the Cooks, Au, CXI and Argie to whom NZ flats kingi fishing is synonymous with one place only. The guys interested in visiting intended to grab the cheapest form of 5hitsmobile they could afford, live in it on a can of beans a day and thrash the living fk out of the place for weeks on end. Confused There aren't many countries that allow such leniency and zero value add activities with respect to their natural resources so we get what we ask for I suppose.... and it is better than comms snaking all the fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Snuffit. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 11:41am
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Originally posted by Millsy Millsy wrote:

Good observations team.

I can concur on one theme already. In my observations, particularly seeing kings I have tagged return daily to the same areas(often until I have tagged all of them), kings are like brown trout. They have a beat and they patrol it with the tides. 

They can definitely be removed from the area if people take them, no doubt. So many times I have heard people exclaim "lot of kings about I've see "X" amount at marker "A"". What they are seeing is the same school of fish using a marker or reef as a home base. I have seen those area's fished out over the course of a few weeks in the past. It's just ignorance or greed.

Another stat that may interest ya'll is the commercial size for take is 65cm. Around 80% of the kings that a fly fisho's will run into of the flats are between 60-75cm. Doesn't take to much science to predict what would happen to a fly fisho's home turf should a gill net show up. In fact I have seen what happens and have moved as a result. You loose your fishery for a season.

I think most people would agree our fishing reg's in general need a huge overhaul. Limits are obscene and non seasonal.

We have collapsed a 1/3 of the oceans stocks already. 90% of our oceans fish stocks are occupy 10% of the coast line.The 10% that we humans generally fish in. I'm sure people think they oceans are just a constant source of fish that restock our food lockers. 

Ignorance is bliss until you hit the ground.







Yup ignorance Is bliss is right. One of The Waitemata flats seem to produce a larger class of fish, mid 90s to just over a metre consistently. A fish that size 9 times out of 10 when caught is ending up as dinner I reckon.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FISHBYFLY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 2:43pm
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Uncle, na bowhunters as yet.
 
Kaimi, good insight from Dick, ive done a couple of trips down there this season.
and she was hard work. and seen a **** load of anglers at Dicks fav.
 
Craig, that's some sad observations.Yeah I got the same insights from Silvio.tell ya what hes been ticking some locations of the list thoCool
 
Nick, yeah its a pretty suburban spot,[ie 'Craigs Flat'] easy to get to, and us all going to the same Flyshop, bound to happen.
 
Millsy, yip good insights as always. theres a King[at Craigs Flat] that does the same beat, ive landed him once and hooked him once. Hes my pet.LOL. he stops and has a good look at the fly now!the flat[ I started this discussion with] the average size was about 80cm. so yeah cool spot.Even if I had a 'Mouth closed Day', id still  enjoy. Something cool about a large creature just going about its business.
That's an interesting insight to on your old haunt. ive been trying to work that area out.Now its making sense. hard to find a decent kahawai let alone a king.
 
another bit of confusion ive been having, when the government changed, having a bosswhos partner fishes[if ya can call spearing fishing] and advocated for legasea, I was expecting some serious changes to inshore fishing policy, but na,nothing Nada.
Me, so confused.CryLOL.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Millsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 2:55pm
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Originally posted by Snuffit. Snuffit. wrote:

Auckland area is pretty big and covers wholly or parts of 3 harbours.. if you're talking Waitemata I'd bet those flats have been scoped Craig, or most of them have. There's a bunch of guys spending a lot of time searching, and not talking about it here, which is good in a way.
 
###
 
Long live Golden Bay I say. I've spoken to guys in the Cooks, Au, CXI and Argie to whom NZ flats kingi fishing is synonymous with one place only. The guys interested in visiting intended to grab the cheapest form of 5hitsmobile they could afford, live in it on a can of beans a day and thrash the living fk out of the place for weeks on end. Confused There aren't many countries that allow such leniency and zero value add activities with respect to their natural resources so we get what we ask for I suppose.... and it is better than comms snaking all the fish.

+1.

There is a very good reason a Floridian bonefish is valued at $3,500USD per year. They have learnt the hard lesson there about over fishing and have some pretty strict rules around the activity. We take far to much for granted here.

Golden Bay suffered because whoever exposed it was naive enough to think only fly fisho's would visit there (as they had pretty much done before it was exposed). I guess when the first kiwi clients that partook in the much hyped activity turned up with chili-bins the writing was on the wall. Of all the kings tagged there, I think there has only been 2 properly reported recaptures. So either the fish don't return (which I don't believe) or the people who re-catch them just eat them without reporting the tags. I heard stories from Golden Bay that don't belong in the fly fishing world.

I honestly thought that the return rate on the Manukau would be worse but I had a lot of people call about tagged kings there and a lot recorded the required info and threw the kings back which is pleasing.

I've said it before that we (swoffers) don't have the same protection around our chosen fisheries that are afforded to our fresh water fly fishing cousins here in NZ. If you find a good fishery, tell no one. At least no one from Aussie or NZ Big smile. I haven't been burnt yet by an American who understands the real value of a good fishery. Kiwi's have a way of exploiting the crap out of most good things. Look at weed LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 4:15pm
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I was waiting for Millsy to join this . Must be plenty of opportunities for you fly flinging guys out this way that us boat based annihilators don't know about.  Especially around Waiua Pa, Clarks Beach, Waterfall Bay and a host of places I couldn't possibly comment on. Wink
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The best spots on the Manukau are pretty buggered smudge. Clark's is generally dirty for many reasons. I've spent many hours there and most of the time it was rubbish or barren. You might get it right one day and the next you have a commercial fisho shooting a 500-1000m long net for mullet. Sort of screws your fishing for a while after that.

The best flat is in front of the airport. I rarely see people there. Again, popular spot for mullet netting and if you get it wrong you'll spend a long time high and dry. You also can't anchor and fish, so it is sort of protected from the mainstream angler.

Sight fishing is a totally different game to live baiting, stick baiting or general gear fishing. You need clear water for starters, not something the big muddy is famous for. If sight fishing to kings with a fly rod was easy, everyone would be doing it. I never really saw anyone doing it in 20yrs and those who tried left heartbroken unless of course they were with me.



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Originally posted by Millsy Millsy wrote:

The best spots on the Manukau are pretty buggered smudge. Clark's is generally dirty for many reasons. I've spent many hours there and most of the time it was rubbish or barren. You might get it right one day and the next you have a commercial fisho shooting a 500-1000m long net for mullet. Sort of screws your fishing for a while after that.

The best flat is in front of the airport. I rarely see people there. Again, popular spot for mullet netting and if you get it wrong you'll spend a long time high and dry. You also can't anchor and fish, so it is sort of protected from the mainstream angler.

Sight fishing is a totally different game to live baiting, stick baiting or general gear fishing. You need clear water for starters, not something the big muddy is famous for. If sight fishing to kings with a fly rod was easy, everyone would be doing it. I never really saw anyone doing it in 20yrs and those who tried left heartbroken unless of course they were with me.




Yeah I get your point but you do fish from a boat still? The Taihiki river may have some opportunities
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 5:52am
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Yeah its pretty sickening watching your favourite Kingi spot get rolled over. I think you know where me and the yak boys were heading most weeks for a Kingfish fix and I kid you not hardly anyone would hang around to fish it first two to three years. Even though me and my mates were getting towed around at a rate of knots. A few pages on facebook ruined that and the traffic has increased tenfold, its hardly a secret spot but had been underused for years I would say. Stickbaits are cool and the techniques used really are something but I can't look past the damage they cause fish so even though I got some I never really used them and sold them. Luckily for simple livebaiting buffoons like us there are far more options.

Back to the flats, said it before as far as I am concerned that is the domain of you SWF boys. I would happily just tag along one day just to watch the action and land a fish for you guys. Its a shame folks feel the need to go in and get "their share" instead of looking at it from an angling perspective, but that has always been a problem here in my frank opinion.  
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Muppet, yip I no where your at, shallow harbor in from there is responsible for my PB, of a rayrider to, but since have had no luck,
 
Millsy, a 1000 metre net, holy**** that explains a lot.
 
I do love the muddy, just for its size and variants in terrain and low level of boat traffic.
 
have had fractions of success there, but in relation to time spent, shes hard work.[
not having tha broad knowledge of  experience as yourself, I relyed heavily on luckLOL
 
Now, heres a serious question for ya all men of wisdom,
 
IF time and money weren't an issue, And ya wanted to start a campaign to change inshore fishing regulations, say for example make the hauraki gulf a commercial free area, or remove kingfish from QMA allowable catch, or a bag limit on Kahawai etc,
HOW would ya do it? or is it in the 'To hard basket'.cause in my mind statistics are relative. what I find more compelling are the personal anecdotes[ie 'when I was a boy I use to see...…. bla bla bla] 
Ive watched others try, but get snowed under by infighting.
So I suppose the question is,' how to get all anglers united for change'?   
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Start a #MyKingyflat movement LOL
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LOLcrack up, which involves the installation of a 50 cal on the bow of the Nucanoe.Clown
 
Ill take the lack of response , and crawl back into my corner,Open Google Earth and resume the searchCool 
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Originally posted by FISHBYFLY FISHBYFLY wrote:

 
So I suppose the question is,' how to get all anglers united for change'?   

I think all you can do is join Legasea, vote for the NZ Outdoors Party, and hope for the best.  
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