Sobering thought

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    Posted: 15 Feb 2019 at 3:45pm
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This maybe old (2004) but it has caught my attention now water is warmer and more divers.

Just a reminder as to why dive flags must be seen at all angles,in this case several flags flown but no wind to hold flag out.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2019 at 4:59pm
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Probably about fourty years ago passing Mechanics Bay heading for upper harbour. Saw a movement in the water ahead, thought it was a seal but as I got closer saw it was a swimmer wearing a black cap swimming from Auckland to Devonport. Gave me a chill as to what could have happened if I hadn't seen him/her. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Uncle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2019 at 5:07pm
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Similar thing on Lake Rotoiti recently, a lone swimmer way out in the lake.
Lucky I saw him/her in time.
There was a bit of wind chop on the water that made seeing difficult so I had slowed a fair bit.
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Given the number boats on th water these days.. and the recent installtion of 200m markers around a lot of Auckland to indicatre speed limits...
 Maybe ther should also be a recommendation that swimmers stay inside those markers unless escorted. (???)

 As to dive flags.. we have commonanly come across large dive boats where the flag is simply hanging off a short  pole in a erod holder. 
In saying that when they have been in a area know to be a scallop bed, we have always taken a wide berth around them.. commonsense in my books.. and not trusteed in that a flag is flying or can be seen.

The flag on our boat is permanently attached to the top of the VHF aerial, and held rolled up with double sided velcro.
 The top of the VHF aerial is by far the highest pt of the boat.
 Not only that it is the most simplest and laziest way to store and erect and display the dive flag...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2019 at 6:21pm
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Originally posted by Mr Moritz Mr Moritz wrote:

Probably about fourty years ago passing Mechanics Bay heading for upper harbour. Saw a movement in the water ahead, thought it was a seal but as I got closer saw it was a swimmer wearing a black cap swimming from Auckland to Devonport. Gave me a chill as to what could have happened if I hadn't seen him/her. 

The tragic consequences of that kind of incident will be played out in court at some point this year with the Maritime NZ case against Ports of Auckland and a staff member who have been charged in connection with the death of that ocean swimmer out from Takapuna in 2017. Was hit by a boat.

Sobering indeed. 200m seems like a long way away from a flagged boat to have the potential for a diver to surface. I will be watching out for dive flags on boats a lot more after reading that case report. I have seen them floating on buoys near boats - to me that is much more likely to be seen than hoisted somewhere on top of a launch.

My condolences to all of those involved, including those who went to the diver's aid, his family and friends, and the skipper whose vessel collided with him - particularly as it appears he did little wrong. None of those people will be the same again.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2019 at 9:16am
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I have seen them floating on buoys near boats -

 lot divers pull a float behind them with a flag.. in most case whee have seen them doing so has been close in around rocks.. too close for boats that maybe cruising thru thu
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2019 at 11:02am
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I always tow a float with a dive flag on it when I'm spearfishing and I'm a big supporter of flags.

Usually I'm close ish to rocks but I've also swum between islands etc. (or round the other side of an island from my boat - which also has a dive flag flying).

Furthest I've been from my boat while spearfishing is about 3km along the coast of an island and hopping from one island to another.  

I've also done shore dives where I've been in the water all morning and covered several kilometres of coastline with no boat at all.

You will also find spearos swimming out from points and pinnacles into the current and deep water when hunting kingfish.  

I've been known to jump in on workups offshore (but only when no one else is chasing it already).  In that situation the boat will have a dive flag up and I will be towing a float and flag.  

I've had one scary experience when a boat raced up and started tossing lures next to me.  We had been following this particular workup for a while and had dropped in to its path before and had been the only people on it.  It was a huge workup and they could have tossed lures other than at me and still got fish - or just waited for the workup to move away from me - I cannot swim fast enough to keep up with a workup so they wouldn't have had to wait long at all. (a few minutes max - in this case it was way less)  They kept tossing lures after the workup had left me - so either they had no idea about workups or had it in for spearos.  My boatie came over and pointed out things to them (politely).
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2019 at 12:23pm
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Couple of thoughts.

1) There is no legal requirement for divers to have a float, there is guidance, but that is all. Happy to be corrected on that.

2) DSMB. If you are a SCUBA diver and you don't know what this means, Google it!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2019 at 8:08pm
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Yeah, no legal requirement for divers or swimmers to have a flag (or float) - only for boats conducting dive operations to have a flag.

Spearfishing NZ have been running a campaign to raise awareness of floats and flags with the general boating community and also to get more spearos etc. using them

There have also been incidents where the skipper has pretty much been let off e.g. someone I know (he's gone back to Europe now) was struck by the Goat Island Glass Bottom boat at the Outpost.  He was well within 200m of the shore (he told me about 20m or less) and the guy was definitely going faster than 5 knots but not much happened as the diver had the US style red flag and not the international Alpha flag.  

The guy diving now has plates and screws in his arm from being struck by the boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 9:51am
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As a diver, I can hear if there are any boats under way in my vicinity, they are loud...I will not surface if I can hear a boat.
Secondly I was taught to swim up in a spiral way and to look up so I don't surface under a stopped boat..
My boat people usually follow me visually as they can see my bubbles.
Hence, if there are any dive flags up, I am looking for those bubbles. They create a distinct patch on the surface, unless in significant chop.

Snorkelers/swimmers are a different problem. They need to be responsible and make themselves visible. Much like cyclists. Being in the right, but still being dead is not much fun for anyone.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 10:27am
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 Being in the right, but still being dead is not much fun for anyone.

Like that.. a lot.
Young children are told to cross at a 'crossing...to be safe.
 What we told them, even thu they are on a crossing they are not safe. There is no huge wall stopping vehicles on the road running them over, when they are crossing.
 Children being children.. and far too many adults, consider just because they follow the rules they will be safe..
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 10:35am
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Yep, that's why I flay a dive flag off the boat and tow a float and flag when in the water, pick my times to be in certain areas etc.

It's also why I comment on threads like thisas the more people read the more they become aware of other peoples use of space, restrictions etc. 
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