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    Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 10:23am
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Just bought this awesome line ,475g.
Would you trust the built in loops or splice a braided loop on ?
I’d have thought they’d be strong looking at the 50lb BS of the core etc
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fraser Hocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 10:49am
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Nick (Snuffit) I'm sure will pop in here and give you some advice. He has been doing some serious destruction testing of a range of kit on GT's and knows pretty well what will hold up and what wont.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Snuffit. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 1:10pm
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Depends what you're up to Rory. I landed a pretty serious GT on that line with factory loop and but next take snapped the loop off like cotton, so I had clearly stressed the line out with the first one. 

As a rule I always replace factory loops on my SW lines. Should've taken my own advice OuchLOL

Having said that, lots of big fish are taken using factory loops. I just do it so I'm satisfied I've built my rigging as tough as I possibly can. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Legacy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 2:18pm
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Looking at Gts (and kingis off the rocks) etc
So would you suggest 50lb Gudebrod braided mono loops ?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Legacy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 3:19pm
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Or could one if the hollow braids like jerry brown be used ?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FishMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 3:49pm
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I personally would have total faith in the loops on that line. GT fishing is quite different to kingi fishing. With GT's in a lagoon you are almost at the same level as the GT and you are trying to stop the GT getting to visible structure further out (generally coral). In this scenario you can take a wrap and really put the brakes on. Effectively you have a 'hand-line' direct connection to the fish with a chance of breaking even the toughest connection. 

For kingfish off the rocks you are trying to control the weight and strength of the fish in the dying stages of the fight as it is pulled closer to the rocks and kelp at your feet. The angles are not flat and there is some cushioning effect provided by rod and arm. 

Even when trying to stop a kingfish making for structure further out there is some angle between angler and fish and some cushioning affect to be had. Flat line GT smashing is in a world of its own. Good luck if you can do the same on a kingfish in NZ. 

That Rio GT line will be fine Thumbs Up



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Legacy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 10:41am
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Originally posted by FishMan FishMan wrote:

I personally would have total faith in the loops on that line. GT fishing is quite different to kingi fishing. With GT's in a lagoon you are almost at the same level as the GT and you are trying to stop the GT getting to visible structure further out (generally coral). In this scenario you can take a wrap and really put the brakes on. Effectively you have a 'hand-line' direct connection to the fish with a chance of breaking even the toughest connection. 

For kingfish off the rocks you are trying to control the weight and strength of the fish in the dying stages of the fight as it is pulled closer to the rocks and kelp at your feet. The angles are not flat and there is some cushioning effect provided by rod and arm. 

Even when trying to stop a kingfish making for structure further out there is some angle between angler and fish and some cushioning affect to be had. Flat line GT smashing is in a world of its own. Good luck if you can do the same on a kingfish in NZ. 

That Rio GT line will be fine Thumbs Up






Thanks for the reassurance .

I suppose if you’re a long way from a tackle shop a couple of pre made loops and some glue might be a good idea to have in the bag
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hengemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 1:14pm
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Albright knot. Generation's of tarpon fishermen can't be wrong..that said I would trust the factory loop on that line. Certainly more than I ever trust a braided loop
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Legacy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 1:25pm
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Albright knot -keeping it simple as a back up , awesome .
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fraser Hocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 1:52pm
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Once you start to think about the mechanics of the connection it becomes an interesting one.  

I'm assuming the loops are welded with the plastic coating, as with other lines.   This means that the loop to loop connection rely's on the shear strength of the welded plastic to be in excess of 50lb? 

If you use a pre-made loop then that in effect will bite (old Chinese finger trick) into the plastic coating of the line, so in essence is still not directly connected to the inner 50lb core.   SO once again the shear strength of the plastic coating to the line is whats holding it.  That being said, if you make the sleeve long enough, it theoretically it should have enough sheer strength.  

My suggestion to get the most strength out of the loop would be to strip the last few inches to a foot of the line, down to the bare core.  Then thread that core back over through the core of itself and then knot that back (Bimini loop style) and coat the whole lot with something to effectively re-instate the original plastic coating.  Sure a huge mess around, but should see you getting a loop with at least close to 50lb breaking strengthen?  

Nothing wrong with an albright, but don't forget that newer lines are low or even no stretch and the rods are far stiffer than when using an albright was the norm! 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Snuffit. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 2:14pm
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I kind of agree with what Craig says about kingis. But the fact is the line is called "GT" and we blew a few of them up on the target species as in factory loops going south. In the picture below you can (just) see the jury-rigged "cnut loop" Embarrassed that we ended up tying in the terminal end of our lines. 4 anglers on that trip and without exception we blew factory loops. Not just Rio but SA & Airflo also.
 
So IMHO I'll always be putting braid loops on my lines. I always did before that trip and regretted not having done so with the new lines I got prior to going. I'm messing around with some 200lb Jigstar hollow braid at the moment. It looks the deal so far.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote piscisfly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 2:28pm
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Being a recent newcomer to catching GT's on fly, I can't add much from an experience point of view. But I would tend to concur with what Craig said about GT's and Kingi's being quite different. 

I have 2 of the old Rio Leviathan Floating lines (70lb core), and they didn't come with any factory loop - in my opinion that is because Rio don't believe the factory weld does justice to the 70lb core. Scientific Angler also don't have factory loops on their 100lb core lines. 

Anyway, I fitted a 100lb braided mono loop on the front of the Leviathan for a recent trip to Aitutaki, and it now needs replacing after that trip as it has frayed. One GT and three Bluefin Trevally landed and 2 GT's lost. I think coral did the damage.

Like Nick said, I would not trust the factory loops on big fish that require high drag pressure.

I am waiting for some 150lb braided Kevlar to arrive to see how that goes on my GT lines.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Legacy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 4:01pm
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Braided Kevlar sounds interesting ?
The 16 carrier jigstar braid is nice , I’ve used it in the 80lb weight.
I’ll get 25m of the 200lb jigstar to try .
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FISHBYFLY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 6:03pm
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 whats  you fellas preferred method of construction re 'braided loops'?
ie; slide on and ty of with Kevlar thread and glue?.
reason I ask is when my loop gets a bit worn I just reweld a new one and ty of and glue, but im not 100% confident with it,none of them have failed, but I don't wont to loose the dream fish because of it.
 
Thanks heaps 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fraser Hocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 8:55am
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The Jigstar stuff is also available in 300lb Legacy.  Not that you need the extra strength but it might be a little stiffer so help with transfer of energy into your leader?  The only downside with using kevlar is that its soft.  Braided monofilament style sleeves are stiffer, which helps with energy transfer, where as the kevlar will act a little as a hing point.  Not that it matters much with the heavy tackle you guys are using it for. 

That's the usual way Adam.  Personally if I were building them for the loads the guys want to put on them, id build my loop with around 300mm of braided sleeve going up the fly line and then whip finish it in three places, using GSP and then coat liberally with glue to ensure that its locked in.   Remembering that the very end whipping of the loop sleeve is the crucial one. If that one slips then its likely the rest will go too.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Jaapie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 9:56am
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Blind splicing and sliding the flyline up the guts as far as it can go.

Touch of superglue and whip it to smooth the transition point.

You guys might also consider using 130 dacron for the loops.
Works brilliantly - much better than the stranded mono like Gudebrod and the like.

That stuff really does start to fray after a few fish.

"Only when the last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught,will we realize that we cannot eat money" - 19th Century Indian Creed
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote piscisfly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 11:18am
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Adam, I go a bit overboard with my braided loops on my 12wgt lines. When I create the loop by inserting the tag end inside the braid (is that 'blind' splicing?) I add a few small dabs of Zap-a-gap, then nail knot 2 lots of 50lb GSP and then put a very small dab of Zap-a-gap on the knots. Then slide the flyline up the other end, and tie 3 x 50lb GSP nail knots, one at either end and one in the middle. Repeat the Zap-a-gap.

And then to be totally over-cautious, I massage warm Aquaseal along the entire length of braid, right up to the base of the loop. Although with the fraying I recently experienced I do wonder if the loop itself should also be aquasealed to provide some abrasion resistance?

Fraser, the Aquaseal provides significant stiffness, but still enough flexibility, to completely mitigate any hinging, and this will be the technique I use with the braided kevlar.

Jaapie, I have used 130lb Braided Dacron on all my heavy lines, except the line I used recently in Aitutaki where I used 100lb braided mono - stupidly as it turns out. The 130lb Dacron has worked well so far, but hasn't been through the 'coral wringer' yet, so can't comment on it's durability in that regard.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fraser Hocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 11:45am
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Must say this thread has got me thinking! I might pull out my 10+12# lines and upgrade the factory loops, just in case.   You never know when it might come in handy having all that strength?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Snuffit. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 12:37pm
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That's the way I think Fraser.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote piscisfly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 12:52pm
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The downside to all that Aquaseal is when you might want to replace the braided loop. The only practical way to do it is to cut the whole thing off including the fly line. Probably not too much of an issue as the level tip section is usually at least 1' long.
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