Uner-reported Hoki catch discussion

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fish-feeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 6:38pm
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Titanium
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V8,at the end of the day,we could shake our diddles outside Parliament with big signs and they wouldn't care a feck. I know what you are saying but its corporate greed,we as people can't do carp about it. Its a sad state of affairs but money is the hinge factor,and the average Joe doesn't have time or money to protest the gubberments tactics in this topic...so as today...so will be tomorrow. *******.
dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2018 at 9:04pm
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Titanium
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You have time and money to stop the waste, trust me. The companies involved want you spend both your time and money selecting then buying the products. Just don't buy it, if only the rest of NZ would get onboard.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2018 at 9:32pm
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I think a big issue for NZ and in general 'western' politics is that buying influence via political donations is legal. Of course no one ever admits that getting large donations will influence policy, so no government wants to turn off the donation tap by making donations illegal. There is supposed to be a high degree of transparency in our political donation system but you look at the publicly available information and see how easy it is for the true donors to hide. 
When the fishing companies (as an example) or their 'associates' give large sums to politicians and/or political parties how can anyone think they are doing anything other than buying influence? I bet if rec angling got all organised and waved a few $millions in political donations at one of the major parties we would suddenly have fantastic access to the relevant ministers and their ministries instead of being treated as a poor afterthought unless there is an election in the immediate future and votes to try and gather. Of course this is all 'legal' so no points scored on the corruption meter. Now if maybe we had a political 'morality' gauge .......
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote KikBac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2018 at 10:30pm
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OK so the Comm's and big business and the Fishing Industry and Iwi and the National Party and MPI must have all been in collusion when they agreed to REDUCE hoki catch by 10,000 tonnes https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/72478744/hoki-quota-trimmed-by-precautionary-10000-tonnes
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2018 at 8:34pm
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Titanium
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Party morality gauge Tagit, we would be all voting Greens LOL 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2018 at 9:24pm
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Originally posted by KikBac KikBac wrote:

OK so the Comm's and big business and the Fishing Industry and Iwi and the National Party and MPI must have all been in collusion when they agreed to REDUCE hoki catch by 10,000 tonnes https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/72478744/hoki-quota-trimmed-by-precautionary-10000-tonnes
Maybe that was when this 'hidden' report was done and they realised they were already taking that much more than their quota already Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (4) Likes(4)   Quote Marligator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2018 at 11:12pm
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Titanium
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A number of years ago a group of us went down satellite tagging Pacific Bluefin off Greymouth on a well known charter boat that at that time was owned and skippered by an ex commercial fisherman from down there and he used to target Hoki. This was a few years after the Hoki quota had been cut and a whole lot of small operators were forced out of the fishery, leaving only the big boys. He said that this was a total con job between MPI and the big companies he said there was no shortage in Hoki but MPI and the big companies wanted to get rid of the smaller fisherman so they said the fishery was stressed and a major quota cut was required. He also said he could almost guarantee that in a few years MPI will say there has been a remarkable rebuild in stock numbers and a whole lot of quota would be reallocated to the companies fishing the Hoki. He has been proven 100% correct that is exactly what has happened.
 
No corruption/collusion between MPI and the big fishing companies - Yeah right.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2018 at 12:35pm
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Titanium
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Originally posted by Tagit Tagit wrote:

Originally posted by KikBac KikBac wrote:

OK so the Comm's and big business and the Fishing Industry and Iwi and the National Party and MPI must have all been in collusion when they agreed to REDUCE hoki catch by 10,000 tonnes https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/72478744/hoki-quota-trimmed-by-precautionary-10000-tonnes

Maybe that was when this 'hidden' report was done and they realised they were already taking that much more than their quota already Ouch


Yes Tagit.
My initial thoughts exactly.
They got wind of a report that proved accidental over fishing, accidental high grading and the use of non existent mincers to destroy the evidence of bycatch/juvenile mortality/damage to non sellable stock.
Public relations mitigating propaganda perhaps.

Having said that, according to the article on 3 news, all is well in the industry now according to their representative.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2018 at 3:43pm
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Titanium
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Clearly remember those cuts on the T.v news. A NIWA spokesperson stated there was concern as to the lack of juvenile hoki  showing in the catch. Was stated that global warming may be the cause. Of course no data backing this assumption was given. Not convincing. And of course the question of why there would be juvenile hoki in the catch in the first place if sustainability was the aim,was never asked. 

But this is their fishery to catch and profit by. Very few if any recreational fishers would ever fish that fishery. But importantly it  is also a very valuable national  resource which many consumers enjoy both here and overseas., and for that reason needs to be looked after.
No room for overcatch or hidden documents.

But one can only wonder how many other papers and documents are still hidden.
Especially pertaining to the inshore fishery . And this fishery is different insomuch as recreational,customary,charter , and of course commercial all have a vested interest.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote fish-feeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2018 at 5:53pm
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Simple...don't buy hoki. Is it caught for nz or mostly sent overseas?
dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote sposman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2018 at 6:20pm
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Yeah mate read Bomber Bradbury blog has a good article on the thieving Talley brothers and what products to avoid
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2018 at 8:31pm
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Why is it that seemingly nearly every release of a report about commercial fishing non-compliance, theft, high grading, dumping, mammal kills, sea bird kills etc seems to start with the word 'leaked'? 
What is so secret about our commercial fisheries that makes it impossible for the public to read the reports they pay to get written without someone having to 'leak' them? There is a fundamental disconnect here between what MPI/government think they can do and what the public rightfully expect them to do. Why do they do it? Because it suits their own agendas better and because they are so unaccountable that they know they can get way with it. Probably spend more time and money trying to find the 'dangerous leaker' than they did trying to fix the problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2018 at 12:26pm
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Originally posted by fish-feeder fish-feeder wrote:

Simple...don't buy hoki. Is it caught for nz or mostly sent overseas?

Exported I believe. Most of the "hoki" products you get in the supermarket, fish fingers and stuff, are basically minced up hoki anuses with some tasty crumb on them, as I understand it. Hey I enjoyed eating them as a kid, still would if it weren't for principle of supporting a thoroughly messed up part of the industry.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2018 at 12:29pm
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Originally posted by Tagit Tagit wrote:

Why is it that seemingly nearly every release of a report about commercial fishing non-compliance, theft, high grading, dumping, mammal kills, sea bird kills etc seems to start with the word 'leaked'? 
What is so secret about our commercial fisheries that makes it impossible for the public to read the reports they pay to get written without someone having to 'leak' them? There is a fundamental disconnect here between what MPI/government think they can do and what the public rightfully expect them to do. Why do they do it? Because it suits their own agendas better and because they are so unaccountable that they know they can get way with it. Probably spend more time and money trying to find the 'dangerous leaker' than they did trying to fix the problem.

A significant consideration when classifying information is whether it would have an economic impact. The threshold for classifying something as "Sensitive" is "Seriously damage the economy of NZ" and arguably disclosing that the Hoki fishery is a giant mess could do that. So you slam a "Sensitive" classification on it and then it's not for public release.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2018 at 6:16pm
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Another report from 2013 on Southern blue Whiting.
Massive waste and under reporting.
Sigh.
Once again, according to the industry it is all sorted now.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tonto2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2018 at 7:20pm
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If mpi were the police . That would make an hilarious monty python sketch. Who's a naughty fisherman then....
slowly going where everyone else has already been
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote LBGer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2018 at 8:36am
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A few observations.
1) Why does MPI have reports/compliance investigations but not act on them? They have a job to do and the front line staff do a (mostly good) job but its the senior officials who 'manage' the process and outcomes. The fishing industry is a huge economic machine and so they realise there ARE problems but MPI protect them from significant economic fall out as they continue to try and find solutions internally without public transparency.
2) As someone has noted, on the talk back Mr Talley's arrogance became obvious. There is a deep sense of entitlement amongst most in the industry, on FB you can see it when data is debated, Comms point the finger at recs and say the data of rec catch is not accurate and recs take far more than what is reported and they are the ones to blame. Whenever the data doesn't suit their argument they simply discredit it and say its a joke. On the LegaSea FB page, one of the crayfish comms was saying the NZ public in CRA2 should stop taking crayfish so the commercial guys can keep going.
3) There are two things that can influence the outcome - the first one is if the minister knows the NZ public are behind him when he makes hard decisions, he will have the confidence to do so. Trying to prove that this is important enough to an apathetic NZ public can be difficult. The 2nd one is if there is a solution to the QMS. We could burn it down eventually, however, if there isn't a viable solution, it makes it harder to make it happen.
4) There are 15 or so reports that have been asked to be released by the likes of Greenpeace, LegaSea etc but they have been slow and partial in any release. It looks like all the reports are going to be released rather than drip fed. See - https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2018/05/29/nz-industry-hopes-report-release-can-dispel-economic-sabotage/

Here's a good piece on the whole issue with MPI & the industry - 

A king on the bricks is worth 5 in a boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Garry 23041 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 7:44am
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We are so used to corporate welfare now that it is ingrained in our system. As a group we are pretty much programmed to believe any wholesale reduction of corporate welfare will erode our standard of living etc...I note currently that along with the reduced and quickly reducing traditional "family" farmers corporate farmers are receiving our money to kill cows etc and we will see no decrease in dairy at our stores in return. Fishing is an even harder nut to crack because it's more arms length and "out of sight" than other industries receiving our help to higher profits through corporate welfare.
Unless somehow we can gain an appetite for change, and this should not require us doing away with our capitalist system or waiting until revolution is the only response, we may be screwed? Once again I suggest those that are not already doing so start a small weekly donation to Legasea and maybe if we fund a really wealthy political lobby group that's our best bet?
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