Boat has a left (port) leaning attitude

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    Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 12:23pm
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Anyone care to cast light on this.
Fi-Glass Warrior (early model) has distinct left lean when planning.
Believed it was son-in-law who is the regular crew and weighs 'several' kg's more than I sitting in left seat.
Never noticed issue when I was out alone.
However, yesterday I had my daughter in left seat. She is lighter than I and considerably less than S-i-L. Boat had the distinct left lean again. Although I did only noticed attitude on return trip as sea had roughed up and consequently I trimmed motor down!
All equipment on boat is distributed equally and fuel is in central underfloor tank.

Boat is powered by Johnson 115hp Ocean Pro. No trim tabs but has hydrofoil (already fitted when I bought package).

Coincidently, I had read recently that a hydrofoil can cause stability problems.

Be keen to know what thoughts on this issue are out there


Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 12:51pm
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I presume if you let the wheel go it tends to pull left? If so it may be the little trim fin under the cavitation plate may need a tweak. It won't need very much at all. Imagine it is a big rudder (it's a small rudder that counteracts the torque of the prop) and turn it so it has less affect to turn it left.
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Yes clarification required as above...
 If a 'wheel alignment' type pull  as Smudge describes above.
 The fin is very sensitive, and set to keeping straight at your ave cruise speed... or maybe a troll speed if do a lot of that.
Outside the speed you set it at, it will still pull (steer) one way or the other a little.

Adding a permatrim and if that has not been fixed EXACTLY square, will also cause issues.

 If it is the boat on a lean, one way or the other, and still leans... check your floatation compartments.
 These usually have drain plugs.
With older boats, espec keel boats, the screws that hold the brass keel strip on can work loose, or if installed with screws too long and loose, cause a seepage into the bilge , not be noticed as that part of the bilge is also part of the sealed compartments.
 The screws that usually cause the issue are the front 1/2 of the boat.

Basic check for keel/ hull leaks can be done at home.
 Remove the compartment plug, stick the garden hose in with a rag stuffed around it, and fill up as best you can as much water....replace the bungs.
 Make sure the bungs have a good O ring around so they seal.
 then sit back and check the hull

 If they dont, so many old bungs (and fuel filler cap water in the tank after a rain) they have long gone. No having the O rings, the compartments will drain between trips, so initially on the way out, may not notice the lean..

If it is the keel screws, its not a difficult or rocket science to repair.

 PS if you do have a slight weeping drip.. then think " hey that would not let enough water in on a trip"  that leak is under water and even a 100mm or so below is enough to force water in at a surprisingly fast rate.



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Boat has NFB helm, so no left pull. But I did not consider the trim tab.
Will give that a crack.
Do you have an opinion on the hydrofoil?
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Thanks Steps for the reply.
Yes while coming in yesterday I was thinking that perhaps I had sprung a leak in the left chamber or I had not fitted bung properly.
However as soon as I stepped on the jetty and before boat was recovered, I stood directly behind her. She was perfectly level all round.
There used to be problems with the air chambers especially the left one. Caused by previous owner/s indiscriminately drilling into floors above chambers. They have all been fixed.
I open all bungs immediately after recovering boat and those chambers are dry.
Can I ask your opinion of the hydrofoil (or permatrim as you call it)
After reading that article, I was considering removing and wondered why it had been fitted in the first place!
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Yes while coming in yesterday I was thinking that perhaps I had sprung a leak in the left chamber or I had not fitted bung properly.
However as soon as I stepped on the jetty and before boat was recovered, I stood directly behind her. She was perfectly level all round.

Funny thing is once at stop, even if a side compartment has water, there is not enough of that water weight above water line to tilt the boat... most compartments are deep enough to go right down and include the bilge.Wink


I open all bungs immediately after recovering boat and those chambers are dry.

On the trailer, and the jockey wheel right up..hitch as high as will go.. engine on tllt so weight of the boat is not on the engine skeg?

Do you have an opinion on the hydrofoil?

 Check its square.
Im not, manufactures are not fans of these. They are a patch up 'fix' for a min/ under powered ,and /or or badly propped boat that doesnt get on the plain well and/ or rides low in the stern.
 The 1st and usually workable fix in these cases, including min powered is going to a 4 blade and/ or a prop with more rake that levers the bow down.

If that doesnt fix.. then add a permatrim as a patch.. real fix is to power the boat well

 All of the above assumes the engine has been mounted at the correct height....
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A thought..
Keep in mind Im not familar with the F glass design of compartments.. but if similar to other lay outs....
 There are 2 compartments on the bow , under the cabin floor .
 These drain, have bungs going back into where the under floor fuel tank is...may require lifting the floor over the tank, and may require sliding the tank to the stern a couple inches t get at the 2 bungs.. one for each side...
 If the tank will not side.. I use a trailer tie down.. chances are there is a stop at the stern end of the tank to stop it moving backwards on one side ot the other.
Then there are the other 2 compartments each side of the boat, each side of the fuel tank, that have bungs going into the bilge at the stern.

I dont think many ppl know about the 2 compartments and bungs up in the cabin area....
 On older boats with a few stresses over the decades.. if the front or a front compartment fills, it can seep into the side compartment behind it.. with a tell take water coming out when remove that bung. If dont know about the cabin compartments and leaks enough to fill a front compartment one can chase in cicles trying to find the source of a small leak.
I only know this stuff from the old mans boat back in the early/ mid 60s, and my 1st boat in the 70s. And applied that to when on returning home had  about a L drain out of the rear stern bung when removed at home with all the other bungs removed 1st jockey wheel high up.
 That litre was after a good 8 hrs out and after wash down, and a dive while out on the water.
Any more than a couple cup fulls after all of the above I will then worry... Dont get even that...the stern bung is slightly higher than the bottom of the bulge so dont get to fill that  space enough.
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M8 dropped in for a coffee... having a chat before he heads off to his next job.
 He reminded me of a couple occasions this season where I have said while out " damn boat not balancing..."
We have had far more easterlies and NE than normal, then combine that with the current at the time....boat sits a little different to what used to in a certain direction at the end of the day coming home..
 Then when turn around the point to head home/ramp, levels out.. dont give it another thought espec when bilge is still dry...

And if carting water, you fuel consumption change is noticeable, and will be a  slightly little more sluggish getting up on the plain .. but if very well powered or over powered dont notice the hole shot thing.
 And you will know at a given rpms..say normal cruise, normal boat weight, the speed will drop a couple mph below normal.
 ie an extra guy around 90 kgs plus his gear, will drop my fast cruise speed @ 4000 rpms from 39.5 mph to around 38 mph.
 Normal wind and current doesnt make a difference as the boat is skimming with little in the water.
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Yes it appears square.
Boat is not exactly sitting square on trailer. But a straight edge and spirit level from combing to combing matches bubble reading across the flat of the foil!

Hmmm. Under powered. Not sure a 115hp that is running OK is under-powered for boat. Weight including fuel+crew+gear is around 1500kg.
Prop is 14.5/19".
I've done the WOT/RPM which came in well within range attaining near 48kts@5000 RPM (did not like the fuel consumption though!)

AS to correct height. Now that's one that is outside my meagre knowledge on these issues.

The engine is mounted so there is a gap between top of transom and engine. See photo
Also pics of position of prop in relation to transom




I can only assume that boat pre-dates motor and this was the best solution.
I had the transom repaired and this was more or less confirmed by the person who did that work because he mounted the engine the same!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 3:10pm
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Yeah I guess the hydrofoil has to be square and many experts call them as a patch for other problems but they probably don't cause any issues either - if they are mounted correctly. I'd go with the little trim tab thingy first. It's a very easy to do and it's amazing just how much a little adjustment makes
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No forward compartments to worry about.
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Thanks for all the info. I know 100% more about this issue than I did when I started the post.
Will go with the trim tab to start with. I'll alter it 1 notch and see where we go from there.. If I remember you turn the tab in the direction of the problem?
Just as another issue, to alter the tab I have to remove the foil.
So it will remain off until I am satisfied with tab position.
Wind here (Hawkes Bay) not looking too flash for a jaunt so it may be a few days before I get out to test. But I will let you know results.

Very much appreciated
regards Dave
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Could it be windage that’s making it lean, you mentioned that it happen only on the way home and it had chopped up.... wind can lean a boat pretty easy
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Yeah. Steps said much the same thing.
Course back to Napier was to the SW.
There was a southerly swell of about 1m with a ENE wind around 10-12knots which meant the wind was coming just aft of beam.
Would this make boat learn into the wind?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 6:32pm
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I remember that Napier afternoon sea breeze only too well. Great when we were having our sailing races but PIA when fishing my 16ft Fleetline. Always started really early with the aim to be back by midday if it was a typical hot summer day. At 10 -12knts though you weren't getting it too bad. With a SW course home I assume you were up wide of the Flat Rock area or in that direction somewhere? If so, the sea-breeze will have been on your port beam somewhere so yes that could easily be your lean to port. Swell was more likely SE rather true S (?) if it was a typical Napier swell and that could also have been pushing you to maintain a subtle port turn (which is what the wind does to make you lean). Doesn't mean that this is your problem, but the conditions you describe could certainly be contributing. Hows the fishing in Napier now? Used to be my favourite Gurnard fishery when I lived there, but don't tell Smudge. He think the Manakau is Gurnard heaven.
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Been out in worse. No fun though.
Took swell direction off 'Windy' weather forecasting.
Would not have thought such conditions could create such a attitude on boat. Especially wind/sea acting on same side as lean. But I always bow to those with greater experience and learn from that.
Not been able to get out much lately. Sea conditions not been too kind for small boats.
Only been here for a couple of years and found the bay difficult to fish due to it's wide featureless state.
Need to get on to some inside knowledge.

Cheers

Dave
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I've used foils and perma trims generally with great success, solving the problem of keeping the boat on the plane. But the last one I used did lean to the left as well.

My theory is that when they have downward pointing edges or ribs, that provides some level of thrust direction control, steerage.

If the foil is pointing slightly to the right then you'll need to steer left to correct and the boat will lean to the left. You may be able to correct this effect if there is some slop in the mounting holes, and bias it more to the left. If it gets worse, then you know to try and "point it more to the right".

You also get the boat "bow" steering, which can be left or right, when you have the bow overly trimmed down.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 10:43pm
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Originally posted by Tagit Tagit wrote:

Hows the fishing in Napier now? Used to be my favourite Gurnard fishery when I lived there, but don't tell Smudge. He think the Manakau is Gurnard heaven.


I'm right here Dave Big smile
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My Frewza F14 fisher did the same. Leaned slightly to the left when on the plane. Became unnerving for a while,not knowing the cause.
Because of the lean to the left i initally thought my boat had become a socialist. However decided this was not the case.There were other factors  at play. Decided it was wind pressure on the hull,or possibly more weight on the passenger side.But didnt always happen. Have got used to it now and dont notice it .
Have also heard of this with other small boats ,but no clear answer as to why it happens
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 9:29am
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Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

Originally posted by Tagit Tagit wrote:

Hows the fishing in Napier now? Used to be my favourite Gurnard fishery when I lived there, but don't tell Smudge. He think the Manakau is Gurnard heaven.


I'm right here Dave Big smile
When I was living in Napier I thought that the fishing was hard because there were relatively few Snapper around unless you went really deep which wasn't a go very often in my 16fter due to the big afternoon sea breezes. Then I found the 'Gurnard Secret'. Drive out into the middle of the bay over the sand somewhere out past the end of Pania reef and anchor. Drop a burley to a couple of meters off the bottom and 20 mins later you caught your first gurnard on a smallish pink flasher rig. Then you caught one every few minutes until the bites stopped. That meant the burley had run out. Drop another burley and 5 minutes later they start biting again. Repeat until you have enough and head home. Back then this was a 100% success rate technique. Best gurnard fishing I have ever had anywhere. Caught the odd Snapper as well but 95% gurnard. Don't remember getting any really huge ones though.
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