Aluminium Permatrim issues?

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    Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 9:47pm
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Has anybody actually seen a cavitation plate broken of an outboard gear box by an aluminium Permatrim. I'm about to get one fitted to my boat but my outboard mechanic is dead against it, says he seen it happen quite a few times. I've heard about, it but never seen it so assuming it's a rare occurrence?

Any advice before I push ahead and take the plunge?
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote funandfunction Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 9:56pm
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My brother-in-law has 10+ years experience of a permatrim on a 140 hp Yamaha 2 stroke with no issues.
Not recommended to use them as a step though.
There are two types of people in the world: those that divide people into two types and those that don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote lemmy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 5:13am
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Ask yourself if Hydrofoils are so good why does no manufactorer use them as standard on there Outboards ? Nine times out of ten the Motor is just too small for the Hull.
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Have used for 8 years no problems but heard of cracking caused by them.  Obviously don't step on plate - to much leverage.  Some boats they work well but suspect real issue is boat under powered which is common from what I hear  - but is a cheaper option than a repower!
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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put them on my last two boats and wouldnt have an outboard without one now make the boat so much more responsive in all sea conditions
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I've just fitted one too (plastic model) and not because of power problems. I was informed by others that it was worth it for the fuel savings even at troll speeds and because I'm often going out and returning in untidy conditions it'll be nice to be able to hold the boat on the plane just that little bit longer at lower speed rather than have to fall off the plane and chug in. It basicly extends the water line a wee bit. 
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Ask yourself if Hydrofoils are so good why does no manufactorer use them as standard on there Outboards ? Nine times out of ten the Motor is just too small for the Hull.

 yep. or engine been installed a incorrect height and prop choice way off.
If just min powered a prop with more rake usually fixes the problem...

Good power choice and rake also fixes issues in chop etc of dropping off the plane
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Captn Phil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 12:51pm
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Had several of them over the years with no problems.
Make sure the bolts are as close to the leg / plate join as possible and bed them on with 5200 or similar so there is no point loading.
They do create drag and economy can suffer a bit which is probably why the manufacturers dont have bigger trim plates as standard but the gains in trim, lift and pitch stability are well worth the sacrafice
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote lemmy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 6:03pm
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Originally posted by Captn Phil Captn Phil wrote:

Had several of them over the years with no problems.
Make sure the bolts are as close to the leg / plate join as possible and bed them on with 5200 or similar so there is no point loading.
They do create drag and economy can suffer a bit which is probably why the manufacturers dont have bigger trim plates as standard but the gains in trim, lift and pitch stability are well worth the sacrafice



So do you have one on your new Honda?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote lemmy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 6:38pm
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My experiences included heavy steering ,stern behaving strangely  in a following sea,lack of top end, bow steering, good points were good swim step for the kids and kept the line away from the prop when you had a Kingy on.

Whats the Hull and motor you are thinking of adding it too?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 10:01pm
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It's a patch for a badly set up and designed boat. The engine is about 1-2 inches lower than it should be, but there are no more holes in the mount bracket left to mount it higher. I could plug the existing holes in the transom and redrill new holes but I reckon I would burn about $200 at least doing that.

Raising the engine is unlikely to solve the porpoising issue these boats have in flat seas. Everybody I have spoken to with an extreme 570 gameking has this issue and most have solved it with a permatrim

I have a 4 blade prop on there now and the pitch is perfect for achieving the top end of the rev range with no load. 

The engine is a 115 ETEC with a 25" leg which IMHO is marginal for this hull.

The permatrim is a $200 fix and is the least cost most guaranteed fix for the issue at hand. I have used a plastic Se300 before and was going to go with the Aluminium version this time around. was keen to see who had had the issue of a broken cav plate that some say happens with the ally versions.

The ultimate solution is to fit trim tabs, but they can wait for the next boat.
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 10:36pm
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Why are you so keen on an aluminium permatrim Bob?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2017 at 10:41am
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Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

Why are you so keen on an aluminium permatrim Bob?

Just out of comparative interest Smudge. Have had a plastic one, and want to see what difference the Ally one makes. The extra rigidity should give me better performance, in theory. 

The point of this post, was to make sure I'm not going to dig myself a hole by breaking my engine. 
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote treedoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2017 at 11:31am
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My last boat had the same issue, outboard set too low with no adjustment left to come higher.
Power was no issue, had max power, but porpoised in flat water.
I fitted a setback plate which bought the height up, and fitted an aluminium permatrim.
Was like a new boat.
Permatrim worked in my application Thumbs Up
Setback plate similar to this
Got it from Sportcraft Marine in Mt.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Scuba Skip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2017 at 1:15pm
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Is extreme aware of this design fault? I don't think I'd be too impressed having to fit aftermarket bits to "fix" one of the supposed leading boat designs. You pay big bucks for these....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2017 at 1:41pm
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I had a Sea Nymph 146 with a 60hp Johnson outboard.  That had an aluminium permatrim fitted.  Can't say how it helped as it had it on when I bought it so no comparison.  It was a pretty big permatrim and I never had any issues with it, and it looked like it had been there for a long time before I bought the boat.  COuld see that someone could be tempted to use it as a step though, and that probably wouldn't be wise.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2017 at 4:31pm
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They have to be aware of it, I see that all the new ones come with trim tabs now.
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2017 at 6:29pm
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Mine has been stood on, sat on, never broken.. 10 years now
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Captn Phil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 10:23am
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Lemmy, Yes i have trim plates on my new Hondas.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 4:46pm
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So I got it fitted on Friday and was in the water on Saturday. The difference is amazing, it drives like a real boat now. Can trim down and drive through waves and everything.

The only problem is the the boat lists slightly to port while underway. I think I have fixed this, the plate was skewed ever so slightly down on the starboard side. The mechanics are simple but difficult to explain here. Loosening the bolt on the right side and tightening the one on the left changed the gap on both sides which makes me think I might have nailed it. Watch this space....if you feel so inclined.
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
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