Mobil escapes $10m tank farm cleanup - NZ.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote SaltyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 2:02pm
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Originally posted by PriceofFish PriceofFish wrote:

For me I just can't understand how a New Zealand legal dispute fought between a group of Kiwi's could rule in favor of a Corporation (with a record of environmental disasters).

I'm sorry but that is the biggest load of nonsense you have posted yet.

You are proposing that a decision based on the law and the legal agreements entered into between two parties should be decided based on who the parties are not on the correct application of the law!

Really, that is mind numbingly stupid.

So you go to court in a dispute with someone and you present the documentation and the court says......

Nah, we don't like party "B" so we are just going to ignore the law and real in favour of party "A".

Whether you agree with the outcome in this case or not you cannot possibly really propose that we ignore the law and make all future decisions based on who we like!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 2:27pm
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They only talk about contamination at wynyard. But have yet to read what the contamination actually is.

They avoid that detail because if the true level & toxicity was revealed it would not look good.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 3:18pm
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

They only talk about contamination at wynyard. But have yet to read what the contamination actually is.

They avoid that detail because if the true level & toxicity was revealed it would not look good.
quite right there John,what about contamination from the cement works?or for year the slip yards in St Mary bay from hauling out ferries etc?vosses yard and the burn off in the incinerator that to disguise the pollution they use to pump steam up the chimney.The whole area will or must contain some form of contamination as it was a very busy commercial area.
Instead of chasing Mobil,when is the council going to chase away people sleeping cars  and decimating the area.Interesting drive on a Friday/Saturday night.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 3:25pm
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Originally posted by PriceofFish PriceofFish wrote:

The 5 Kiwi Judges presiding over this case should be sent to Invercargill, Gisborne,Whangarei or some other shiithole in New Zealand to work it outLOL almost forgot HamiltonShocked


 Hey Cock stain... I'm from whangarei and take offence to that dumb **** comment. Whangarei and northland are stunning and what's more. there's very few people complaining they can't catch fish up here... Although I'm sure if you moved up this way there would be 1. 

 On the real topic though, how the hell can you tell a company that has not been responsible for all of the contamination they have to clean it completely up... Regardless of how much money they have that's just not right, previous tenants and also residing neighboring tenants are also at fault... 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 4:06pm
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"hookerpuka' this might sum up POF nicely,which one POF,tweedle dee or tweedle dumb?


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote PriceofFish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 4:24pm
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Originally posted by SaltyC SaltyC wrote:

Originally posted by PriceofFish PriceofFish wrote:

For me I just can't understand how a New Zealand legal dispute fought between a group of Kiwi's could rule in favor of a Corporation (with a record of environmental disasters).

I'm sorry but that is the biggest load of nonsense you have posted yet.

You are proposing that a decision based on the law and the legal agreements entered into between two parties should be decided based on who the parties are not on the correct application of the law!

Really, that is mind numbingly stupid.

So you go to court in a dispute with someone and you present the documentation and the court says......

Nah, we don't like party "B" so we are just going to ignore the law and real in favour of party "A".

Whether you agree with the outcome in this case or not you cannot possibly really propose that we ignore the law and make all future decisions based on who we like!

SaltyC - your reply to my post would be your most badly thought-out piece I've yet read from you ( there that's tit for twat).

So you think that KIWI Law has any value outside of NZ...as Judge Rinder says - MORON -

- NZ Law vs International Corporate Law ? lets give the corporate an away win shall we? NZ Taxpayers will pay.

- 50 year old lease agreements with terms and conditions that are NO longer relevant in 2016..Mobile hides behind rusty old lease arrangements crying irrelevance etc... NZ Taxpayer will pay.


- Previous disgraceful environmental business is not unknown to MOBILE. So let them off here in NZ as the Kiwi taxpayer will stump up.

It really shows what the problem is with kiwi's who have no experience or understand what is happening outside of NZ.
For what its worth Mobil wouldn't think of taking the "people" to court in most other countries for such a pathetic amount however NZ is an exception, know why?  because most other countries would tell Mobil to ****off, but NO not NZ we'll show the world that we are full on integrity even if it is bottom draw issue!

Its a bit like letting the serial RAPIST (Mobile) off his 100th conviction because the plaintive was too old and not all there!  
      CEO - Pugsy Corporation Inc.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 4:25pm
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Received in my inbox from a member as too afraid of getting a ban

vote from a nameless member voted for tweedle dumbest. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 5:39pm
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Pof  If u dont understand what Salty is saying ..... let me put it this way
You propose that we have a legal system that makes decisions based on corporate political and social OPINIONS..A system that before a ruling is made has to assess anyone of the above depending on who is waiving the biggest stick... and not the legislation made by our elected representatives.
OR in plain English, u wish to have a system based on the whims of some banana dictator like Adi Amin
Which to have such a system we must dismantle our Westminster system of law and government, right down the the Magna Carta  .. That means ALL our parliament, local body government, right down to how our local fish / car/ knitting clubs administer themselves

Now since this is what u propose.. consciously or not.. the next question is ... since Adi Amin has died, who do you suggest instead?

That IS the implication of your idioic comments
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote PriceofFish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 6:01pm
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

Pof  If u dont understand what Salty is saying ..... let me put it this way
You propose that we have a legal system that make decisions based on corporate political and social OPINIONS..As system that before a ruling is made has to assess anyone of the above depending on who is waiving the biggest stick... and not the legislation made by our elected representatives.
OR in plain English, u wish to have a system based on the whims of some banana dictator like Adi Armin
Which to have such a system be must dismantle our Westminster system of law and government, right down the the Magna Carta  .. That mean ALL our parliament, local body government  right down to how our local fish / car/ knitting clubs administer themselves

Now since this is what u propose.. consciously or not.. the next question is ... sionce Adi Armin has died, who do you suggest instead?

That IS the implications of your idioic comments

STEPS - thank you for explaining the "world" to me. I would say that it is ABOUT TIME that the Magna Carta - BIG LAUGH COMING - and Westminster system of law be looked into.
I wonder why in the world should NZ base a legal system that was constructed to suit the "workings" of the British Empire, the number one military power....does NZ have anything in common with THAT?
      CEO - Pugsy Corporation Inc.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Catchelot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 6:05pm
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Originally posted by hookerpuka hookerpuka wrote:

Originally posted by PriceofFish PriceofFish wrote:

The 5 Kiwi Judges presiding over this case should be sent to Invercargill, Gisborne,Whangarei or some other shiithole in New Zealand to work it outLOL almost forgot HamiltonShocked


 Hey Cock stain... I'm from whangarei and take offence to that dumb **** comment. Whangarei and northland are stunning and what's more. there's very few people complaining they can't catch fish up here... Although I'm sure if you moved up this way there would be 1. 

 On the real topic though, how the hell can you tell a company that has not been responsible for all of the contamination they have to clean it completely up... Regardless of how much money they have that's just not right, previous tenants and also residing neighboring tenants are also at fault... 

Well said Mike, I bit my tongue on those comments and I also have to say WTF has this topic got to do with fishing or fisheries management?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 6:28pm
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Quite right Catchelot, so I shall move this to the politics forum. Feel free to continue the discussion there (well, here.)
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote PriceofFish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 6:38pm
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 I'd say that the NZ Legal system,government,farming and education could be looked into and IMPROVED.

You guys do remember that Britain BANKRUPTED  New Zealand in the 1970's so I fail to see why NZ shouldn't consider a more MODERN system for New Zealands future.

Model(s) that are 100's of years old should be looked at really closely.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote PriceofFish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 7:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 7:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 11:10pm
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Think we should change the name Mobil to the real name Exxon Mobil to put things in perspective. Exxon mobil is one of the most profitable trading companies in the world.

They leased the site. But not only did fuel from coastal tankers come ashore here ,but every Chemical Tanker that visited Auckland berthed here. A huge array of toxic chemicals was pumped off these vessels,and from time to time small spillages occured during pump changes. Most on to hardfill.
So surely Mobil Exxon should bear at least some liability.
But no, the rate or tax payer will foot the bill.Very poor and shows the spineless ,possibly bought system we have.
Laws are make only for the poor

Remember the Exxon Valdez that ran aground in Prince William sound. Same company.That cost billions to clean up,yet it is said some claims agreed to for environmental restoration that still needs implementing have yet to be paid.Instead they were fought in the courts
At that time it was estimated that $500 million was 12 hours revenue for the company. In perspective what is $10 million.
Hate to think that when full scale offshore seabed oil exploration begins here,and if we had a major spill just who would foot the bill given that this precedent has been established here.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2016 at 9:44am
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I would say that it is ABOUT TIME that the Magna Carta - BIG LAUGH COMING - and Westminster system of law be looked into.
I
wonder why in the world should NZ base a legal system that was
constructed to suit the "workings" of the British Empire, the number one
military power....does NZ have anything in common with THAT?

You are showing your ignorance now
There are 2 basic systems modern systems of Law around the world ..(not counting absolute dictatorship power) the Westminster and the French
Simply put one you.... are presumed innocent till proven guilty.. the other you have to prove your innocence
Both have historically been evolved into modern forms of justice systems.

So you want to throw the current system out simply because it has historical evolution from Britain...
And either go banana republic or French?
It is easy sit back behind a keyboard and spout off criticisms, whine and moan ...
And not put forward ANYTHING to replace it with....
Which is basically puts you by your own definition as a Anarchist.

At least do your homework before making fun of others.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2016 at 12:31pm
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Originally posted by hookerpuka hookerpuka wrote:

Originally posted by PriceofFish PriceofFish wrote:

<p style="margin: 0px 0px 12px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: line; transition-property: color, , border-color, opacity; transition-duration: 0.2s; max-width: inherit; color: rgb51, 51, 51; font-family: Calibri, Candara, Segoe, "Segoe UI", Optima, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 21px; -: initial; -attachment: initial; -size: initial; -origin: initial; -clip: initial; -: initial; -repeat: initial;">The 5 Kiwi Judges presiding over this case should be sent to Invercargill, Gisborne,Whangarei or some other shiithole in New Zealand to work it outLOL almost forgot HamiltonShocked




 Hey Cock stain... I'm from whangarei and take offence to that dumb **** comment. Whangarei and northland are stunning and what's more. there's very few people complaining they can't catch fish up here... Although I'm sure if you moved up this way there would be 1. 

 On the real topic though, how the hell can you tell a company that has not been responsible for all of the contamination they have to clean it completely up... Regardless of how much money they have that's just not right, previous tenants and also residing neighboring tenants are also at fault... 


Reading the link posted.
They were asking for one fifth of the estimated clean up bill.
That being ten million out of an estimated fifty million clean up cost.
We sops in the rateable area were probably going to be hit with the balance. Now we will be hit with the total. Plus some legal costs on top of those already spent. Lawyers/business win. Tax/rate payers lose. Business as usual. Pun intended.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2016 at 12:52pm
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Think we should change the name Mobil to the real name Exxon Mobil to put things in perspective. Exxon mobil is one of the most profitable trading companies in the world.

They leased the site. But not only did fuel from coastal tankers come ashore here ,but every Chemical Tanker that visited Auckland berthed here. A huge array of toxic chemicals was pumped off these vessels,and from time to time small spillages occured during pump changes. Most on to hardfill.
So surely Mobil Exxon should bear at least some liability.
But no, the rate or tax payer will foot the bill.Very poor and shows the spineless ,possibly bought system we have.
Laws are make only for the poor

Remember the Exxon Valdez that ran aground in Prince William sound. Same company.That cost billions to clean up,yet it is said some claims agreed to for environmental restoration that still needs implementing have yet to be paid.Instead they were fought in the courts
At that time it was estimated that $500 million was 12 hours revenue for the company. In perspective what is $10 million.
Hate to think that when full scale offshore seabed oil exploration begins here,and if we had a major spill just who would foot the bill given that this precedent has been established here.


Think Tauranga not long ago.
That cost the tax/rate payer tens of millions and that was just a container wreck.
It should have cost NZ nothing for the clean up as the boat was at fault. Not NZ.
We have some piddly weak laws that let the company get off very very lightly.
Once again. That clean up should have cost NZ nothing except in voluntary labour to clean the coastal area and save wild/marine life.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2016 at 2:36pm
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I'm just gonna throw it in there but "live by the sword, die by the sword"
Development Auckland were the ones to call in the lawyers and get all litigious, if they were prepared to do that then they damn well should have had their ducks in a row in the first place, legally speaking.
$100000 spent on some good contract law a long time ago would have meant they were $10 million better off today. Calling in the lawyers after the fact when you should have called them in the first place is always going to end in tears.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2016 at 8:33am
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That pretty well sums it up...
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