Panama Papers

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    Posted: 05 Apr 2016 at 1:57pm
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Titanium
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Well who would have guessed that N.Z is implicated as a Tax Haven and destination for secret trusts.
 As Result of these leaks rioting has already begun in Iceland. Will likely happen in other places as well.
Top world leaders are implicated. As is David Camerons father.
So are these leaks good or bad. What are the longer term implications on Global finance.
One big plus for N.Z being implicated is we are a Clean green ,sustainable ,tax haven.LOL
While this dominates global media it has gone very quiet ,very quickly in N.Z
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2016 at 2:02pm
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I thought there were tax havens all over the world.... like the Cook Islands, the cayman Islands, Switzerland, the channel islands.....lots of places I thought?

It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2016 at 11:47pm
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certainly ant going to get much bigger than this one,
more paper leaked than we could ever use to wipe our bums in multi lifetimes.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 8:22am
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With the amount of data leaked it will take months for journalists to even go through it all.  I think all we are seeing now is the result of them searching the documents for certain names, once some of them start digging we might see some really interesting stuff.  The prime minister of Iceland has already resigned as a direct result of this leak, the UK prime minister has a lot of difficult questions to answer as his families wealth was all channeled through this company.  Who knows what will show up.  One thing is for sure though, I'm not worried about any possible revelations about my financesLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 9:08am
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Interestingly enough, the more interesting revelation to my mind is not that NZ has these loopholes for foreign interests to exploit, we are very small beer to everyone but us of course, but the amount of Chinese businessmen and politicians etc that have money squirrelled away in these places....and the way the Chinese govt has heavily suppressed the whole story in their media to hush it all up!
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 9:18am
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So far Iceland P.M has resigned. David Cameron ducking for cover after calls for his resignation.
And this is just the begining .

Would expect response from N.Z govt to be nothing to see here people lets move on--quickly.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 9:29am
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It'll be interesting to see just how many Russian leaders will be involved in such schemes too. Just coz Cameron's father had money in tax havens is one thing, but I wouldn't mind betting there will be some pretty healthy accounts linked to a mr v Putin for example, lol.
I am not sure what the big deal is though with this....I don't think these offshore trusts etc are actually illegal are they? And such tax havens around the world have been going for...,well, generations. Swiss bank accounts, businesses etc listed in the Channel Islands, none are illegal surely?
Great ammunition for the righteous of course....but a big deal? Meh.
Edit.... I think this is different from money embezzled from govts by corrupt pollies and bureaucrats however. People using such means to hide their own legitimate wealth is one thing, but Presidents-for-life who rip off billions from their countries coffers are a different kettle of fish I think. How much had Gaddafi squirrelled away? If these papers can reveal some of that stuff, well then, bring it on!
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 10:19am
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Putin has already dismissed the allegations as if swatting away a fly. Good luck trying to pressure that guy. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 12:13pm
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Captain, its called tax-dodging. It's illegal to dodge tax. Its quite simple.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 12:32pm
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That's a very grey area cliff. Avoiding tax is illegal, but minimising your tax liability is legal. The line between the two is not at all clear, and there are many people making a lot of money helping rich people pay less tax. The bigger issue for politicians getting caught up in it is damage to their reputation. It's not illegal to have an affair, but many politicians carreers have been ended by getting caught with their pants down, so to speak. Icelands prime minister didn't break any laws, but he's now the ex prime minister.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 1:24pm
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None of this is nationals fault. Just read it. Revenue minister & finance minister blame Labour ,NZF, greens for any damage done to our reputation . Deny a problem exists ,blame labour.
How did we ever get to this. Auckland housing crisis -laundered money. Thats why eventually IRD woke up and insisted on Tax numbers.
So ,strongest house inflation on the planet. Polluted waterways ,depleted fisheries,collapsed dairy industry, massive and growing debt, Panama Papers ,and Brand Key remains intact. Remarkable.
 Now traveling at 200kph,Govt still asleep at the wheel,sharp bends ahead. Will they wake up in time.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pompey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 2:10pm
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[QUOTE=cirrus]None of this is nationals fault. Just read it. Revenue minister & finance minister blame Labour ,NZF, greens for any damage done to our reputation . Deny a problem exists ,blame labour.
How did we ever get to this. Auckland housing crisis -laundered money. Thats why eventually IRD woke up and insisted on Tax numbers.
So ,strongest house inflation on the planet. Polluted waterways ,depleted fisheries,collapsed dairy industry, massive and growing debt, Panama Papers ,and Brand Key remains intact. Remarkable.
 Now traveling at 200kph,Govt still asleep at the wheel,sharp bends ahead. Will they wake up in time.

Well, we won the last two Rugby World Cup's under National's watch so it's not all doom and gloom.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 4:49pm
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well it would be great if National and Labour headed to the field rather than we vote for either

but seriously just think if people payed their share in PAYE would the countries they should be paying be better off,

NZ would be far better off that is for sure,
and tell me way should they dodge their duty to pay?
if you have that much money how much more do they seriously need, when you die its gone no more for you, hope they all go to hell and get their ass burnt off.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2016 at 11:13pm
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Think the whole system is rotten to the core Lethal.No one wants to pay anything if they can get away with it.

Noticed today it was announced that Kiwibank no longer offers guarantee on deposits. The last bank to do so. Guarantee was taken away some time ago from the australian banks in N.Z,under the Open Bank Resolution imposed by the Govt with barely a mention in the media. Meaning you lose your savings if they go bust.Even derivatives come before depositors . So our deposits are a liability to the banks.
What do they know we dont.
The very high housing market here has real potential for bad debt.
And in Australia Bank shares have been dropping.
Shares down 9-16% since the begining of the year and 20-34% in one year.
Bad debt is rising quickly.
ANZ                CBA           NAB       Westpac

1.389 M           1.351 M     964 M      831 M

Much of these bad debts are mining debt. But if the overheated Australian  & N.Z housing markets corrected the situation could become very serious.
Going to be a very interesting year.




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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SaltyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2016 at 10:00am
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Lets be clear here Cirrus, prior to the GFC (2008) there was never any "government guarantee" for funds in any of the trading banks.

A bank goes bust , you loose your money, that has been the way it always was.

During the GFC the government introduced an insurance type guarantee scheme that qualifying banks could buy into. ie if the banks capital ratios met the Reserve Bank requirements they paid a % fee and the funds deposited with them were guaranteed by the scheme which was of course government backed.

In removing this scheme after the worst of the GFC had passed, they decided that instead of returning to to the previous status quo of simply allowing a bank to go bust and depositors funds to be lost, they would implement a managed failure regime that allowed the Reserve bank to step in, in the case of an imminent failure by a bank, and take control of the assets. The "haircut" portion of this is that the Reserve bank could then reduce the value of depositors funds to ensure the bank didn't go through completely.

So instead of losing all of depositors funds at the whim of a market run on a bank the new regime allowed a managed situation to preserve as much of those funds as possible but average the banks losses over all the funds deposited.

In summary prior to 2009 there wasn't a government backed guarantee and there isn't now, but now there is at least a means to protect some of those funds in the event of a bank run likely to cause the failure of that bank.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2016 at 10:10am
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Under the bail in legislation we now have,correct depositors get a haircut to save the bank.
But that also takes any responsibility from banks to lend in a sensible manner. No longer the banks problem but instead the depositors problem.
This has become very clear in the irresponsible lending into the hugely inflationary N.Z housing market. And when that corrects --problems,except depositors not the bank will suffer.
60 minutes tonight covers the Australian housing market in this regard.
Ironically Australia still has a deposit guarantee
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SaltyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2016 at 10:10am
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Sorry got tangled in the detail (who me?) and forgot the point!

The guarantee at Kiwibank was never a government guarantee either. It was a guarantee by their only shareholder, NZ Post.

Now that NZ Post does not own 100%, it is that guarantee that has gone away.

The fact that Anderton et al used this as a marketing ploy, a quasi government guarantee, you would need to take up with him.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2016 at 11:09am
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Under the bail in legislation we now have,correct depositors get a haircut to save the bank.
But that also takes any responsibility from banks to lend in a sensible manner. No longer the banks problem but instead the depositors problem.
This has become very clear in the irresponsible lending into the hugely inflationary N.Z housing market. And when that corrects --problems,except depositors not the bank will suffer.
60 minutes tonight covers the Australian housing market in this regard.
Ironically Australia still has a deposit guarantee

It's your last sentence that has bothered me for some time.  Does it mean that if an Australian bank gets in trouble their Australian customers get all their money back while their Kiwi customers pay to bail the bank out.  So if the Australian market gets in trouble we end up paying to bail them out.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SaltyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2016 at 11:48am
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:


But that also takes any responsibility from banks to lend in a sensible manner. No longer the banks problem but instead the depositors problem.

I'm sorry, but that bit is utter nonsense.

No bank wants to go broke and have their depositors loose their shirts.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2016 at 11:54am
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Interesting but unanswerable question Keven.

In Australia guarantee is limited to 250K per depositor per institution .

But seems clear the whole system is struggling.

So where do people put their savings.

Todays headlines.

1/Austria just announced 54% haircut of senior creditors in first bail in under new European rules.

2/Italy seeks last resort bailout fund to ring fence troubled banks.
Meeting Monday.

We all live in very unstable times.
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