Unbelievable incompetency !

Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Unbelievable incompetency !
    Posted: 15 Jun 2015 at 9:55am
bazza View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar
OBE - Over Bloody Eighty

Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: Mostlyinthepoo
Status: Offline
Points: 17915
NZ Herald this morning Mon June 15 an article re council spending & altho for some reason does not specify it is the miss-named Ak Supercity would be difficult to think of any other body that would be capable of mismanagement of such magnitude!
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
 
The council has so far spent $235 million on a computer system & are committed to spending a further $445 mill on it!
 
As if this in itself is not bad enough it is proving to be near useless & they are having to use a much more flexible system borrowed from Auckland Transport that Ak Transport managed to build for a mere $2.2 million!
 
Six hundred and eighty bloody million of ratepayers money down the gurgler. Couple that with the obscene salaries & other needless spending etc. etc. that surely would have been better spent on improving the diabolical road system, but Loopy Len thinks further rate increases, tolls & levies will
take care of that problem !!!!!!!!!!
 
In spite of such ongoing incompetency loopy Len fails to acknowledge that which most of us realised
way back that he is probably the worst thing to have happened to Ak city to the extent he wants to stand again for election when even most of his cohorts have stated they will not support him.
 
At least Wellington ratepayers have learnt from the dismal failure of Auckland becoming a supercity & have firmly opposed allowing the same to happen to them.
 
Roll on the mayor elections & we can but hope there will be some worthy candidates to choose from.
 
 
When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SaltyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2015 at 12:21pm
SaltyC View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Auckland, NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 3700
Read it again Bazza, your summary is somewhat incorrect, not disputing the cost is out of order but it is one dept that has decided that the function they want is better provided by the ported ARC system than the new council system.Not the whole council, therefore not complete waste. Total incompetence and disregard for ratepayers though!
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2015 at 12:55pm
v8-coupe View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 4108
Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:

NZ Herald this morning Mon June 15 an article re council spending & altho for some reason does not specify it is the miss-named Ak Supercity would be difficult to think of any other body that would be capable of mismanagement of such magnitude!
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
 
The council has so far spent $235 million on a computer system & are committed to spending a further $445 mill on it!
 
As if this in itself is not bad enough it is proving to be near useless & they are having to use a much more flexible system borrowed from Auckland Transport that Ak Transport managed to build for a mere $2.2 million!
 
Six hundred and eighty bloody million of ratepayers money down the gurgler. Couple that with the obscene salaries & other needless spending etc. etc. that surely would have been better spent on improving the diabolical road system, but Loopy Len thinks further rate increases, tolls & levies will
take care of that problem !!!!!!!!!!
 
In spite of such ongoing incompetency loopy Len fails to acknowledge that which most of us realised
way back that he is probably the worst thing to have happened to Ak city to the extent he wants to stand again for election when even most of his cohorts have stated they will not support him.
 
At least Wellington ratepayers have learnt from the dismal failure of Auckland becoming a supercity & have firmly opposed allowing the same to happen to them.
 
Roll on the mayor elections & we can but hope there will be some worthy candidates to choose from.
 
 
There was some over qualified professional moron that came out and said Wellington had missed the chance of a lifetime as all they had to do was see how successful the Auckland amalgamation had been.
I was wondering if he was a mental patient in the Porirua facility and was not in control of all his faculties.
The overrun on finances for new computer systems is nothing new. The sales people baffle them with guano and techno speak then add in a maintenance/change clause. This is where the real money is made from the suckers. Once implementation is started it is virtually impossible to go back. Novapay anyone?
Council, Government and even private enterprise are guilty of this type of garbage.
It should be the other way around. If the IT company can not supply what it said it could then they should be fixing it for free, not hiding behind a maintenance clause and being penalized for every month over and above the specified completion date.
This may see higher quotes. However in the long run would save the rate/tax payer millions and ensure that the IT company can deliver what it promised.
Another problem with a lot of these new contracted systems are they are designed to be stand alone and not compatible with those already there or available else where. This in itself leads to massive problems and over runs plus the necessity to buy another program.
Legasea Legend Member
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Joker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2015 at 1:58pm
Joker View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Status: Offline
Points: 3213
If you have to spend that kind of money then it is doomed to fail. You can only spend that kind on money by throwing people at it and then the confusion starts.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2015 at 2:09pm
Kevin.S View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Location: Waiuku
Status: Offline
Points: 6769
Sadly there's nothing unbelievable about this at all.  It was obvious to everyone, except Rodney Hide and his cronies, that the setup costs of the supercity would be vast and would outweigh any possible savings.  The biggest rort of all is that Len and his band of councillors don't actually control very much.  The CCO's that were set up control vast chunks of what we think of as council activities, and they are effectively private companies who the council have no direct control of.  All run by boards and chairmen earning huge salaries -paid for by us but seemingly not actually accountable to us and we don't even get to vote them out if we don't like it.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dagwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2015 at 2:13pm
Dagwood View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 2003
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2296
Yeah - it's not like other similar organisations in the world have implemented a system that works pretty well for them and has a history of being well supported that the Auckland Council could have had had a look at and have adapted for Auckland.
Or was there.....?
 
Nope our council went down the "we're special" route ending up with delays and cost overruns. As do the majority of IT projects when the companies involved sense the opportunity to latch on to the taxpayer or rate payer teat.
 
As for the benefits of the Supercity?? That's an embarrassingly small list and certainly doesn't feature savings and service improvements. Why the topic was even seriously entertained in Wellington is beyond me.
 
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SaltyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2015 at 2:56pm
SaltyC View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Auckland, NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 3700
Originally posted by Dagwood Dagwood wrote:

As for the benefits of the Supercity?? That's an embarrassingly small list and certainly doesn't feature savings and service improvements. Why the topic was even seriously entertained in Wellington is beyond me.
 

That list is so small I can't actually think of anything that would be on it!

Shocked
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2015 at 3:51pm
Kevin.S View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Location: Waiuku
Status: Offline
Points: 6769
Originally posted by Dagwood Dagwood wrote:

As for the benefits of the Supercity?? That's an embarrassingly small list and certainly doesn't feature savings and service improvements. Why the topic was even seriously entertained in Wellington is beyond me.
 
 
Because they saw it as a way of removing power from the council without anyone noticing or making a fuss about it.  The seven CCO's they set up are basically private companies, and we know how much Act/Nats love to privatise everything so their mates can make money out of it.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote of2fsh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2015 at 10:19pm
of2fsh View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Location: Red beach
Status: Offline
Points: 11082
Have you guys got actual proof there's been no savings with the super city ?
Because they have cut the hell out of staff and budgets in the AK maintenance .
Water care have taken over the grey and fresh water pretty much shutting down 100s of jobs ( my wife was in water rates ) .
Maintenance contracts have been rearranged and are now done at such low rates it's hard to show a profit.

So unless you have actual proof it's pretty much just hair say and personal opinion at this point is it not ?
2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Dagwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2015 at 7:11am
Dagwood View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 2003
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2296
Sorry to hear about the impact of it on your wife. As for proof, I'm happy to refer to my rates bills and the projected increases. If you could then point to where we are getting better value (East Auckland) then I'm certainly listening.

Strikes me that any gains (which are at the expense of those at the coal face) have been more than soaked up by executives, consultants, spin companies and dubious overseas promotional strategies.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2015 at 8:57am
bazza View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar
OBE - Over Bloody Eighty

Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: Mostlyinthepoo
Status: Offline
Points: 17915
What is it with the big spenders of our money that they seem to take into account past disastrous experiences & blindly embark on repeating such disasters. Are they so far out of touch that they have never heard of Maurice Williams defunct from the start, police computer system so called upgrade or the Novapay fiasco?
What is doubly disturbing is that these incomprehensible amounts are usually paid to Australian or other overseas companies begging the question of how many tourists do we have to bring in or how much milk product at the expense of our already troubled dairy farmers needs to be exported to make up for such a massive drain on overseas funds for minimum if any benefit.
As for redundancies Of2fish I reckon you will concede that typical of such organisations they respond to the catastrophic situations they have created by making redundant the employees that are actually doing the work whilst retaining the grossly overpaid fat cats at the top responsible for the mess.
 
A typical example is when Loser Len the clown set himself up at libraries asking voters if they would prefer rate rises or to have cuts to library hours & services, so as when he raises the rates he can claim he is only following the wishes of the ratepayers having given them a Hobsons' choice.
 
It will forever remain a mystery as to how or why loser Len came to be voted in when it was obvious from the start what a disaster he would be even if he has exceeded al expectations in that direction. However I venture to say it would be hard pressed to find those that voted for him as probably now too embarrassed to admit it.    
When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2015 at 1:42pm
v8-coupe View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 4108
Originally posted by of2fsh of2fsh wrote:

Have you guys got actual proof there's been no savings with the super city ?
Because they have cut the hell out of staff and budgets in the AK maintenance .
Water care have taken over the grey and fresh water pretty much shutting down 100s of jobs ( my wife was in water rates ) .
Maintenance contracts have been rearranged and are now done at such low rates it's hard to show a profit.

So unless you have actual proof it's pretty much just hair say and personal opinion at this point is it not ?
 
Mmmmmm. Perhaps it due to the fact that after all those cuts you mention, water rates and general rates are going up at least three times the rate of inflation annually. Then add to that a transport levy. When the Super City amalgamated my water rates went up over 300% plus they never removed the water content from the general rates before raising those. My ordinary rates have increased by over 40%. So in effect we got hit twice and higher.
Sorry to hear about your wife. However all that says to me is the money saved by these cuts is probably going to management for suggesting and implementing those cuts as a cost saving measures. The same thing happens in private enterprise.
We are paying more for less services, bad quality/delivery of services, bad management decisions, extra marital affairs and for our own council to challenge our own CCO's in court or the other way around. All paid for by the rate payer. Go figure.
Bear in mind also that many of the outer suburbs sucked into the Super City have had just as huge increases and are still not getting, nor ever have had the services that many of Auckland's suburbs take for granted.
Super City = BIG FAIL
Legasea Legend Member
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2015 at 1:45pm
v8-coupe View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 4108
Originally posted by Dagwood Dagwood wrote:

Sorry to hear about the impact of it on your wife. As for proof, I'm happy to refer to my rates bills and the projected increases. If you could then point to where we are getting better value (East Auckland) then I'm certainly listening.

Strikes me that any gains (which are at the expense of those at the coal face) have been more than soaked up by executives, consultants, spin companies and dubious overseas promotional strategies.
 
+ 1
Legasea Legend Member
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2015 at 2:28pm
Clifftastic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Location: Te Atatu Pen
Status: Offline
Points: 2164
You should see how many temps and consultants i am surrounded by.....you should also see how many hours of legal work have gone into the Unitary Plan...its massive
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Olfart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2015 at 3:05pm
Olfart View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Location: Wattle Downs
Status: Offline
Points: 5012
So nothing has really changed since the situation prior to the amalgamations then Tyler?  Lots of promises made about how things would be cheaper and better services for the ratepayers of the amalgamating cities but nothing positive delivered at all.
I can remember in my time (32 years) at Manukau CC there always seemed to be a preponderance of temps and consultants in place - all with their respective snouts in the trough to a greater or lesser extent, while existing staff were not being extended in their roles.  I.T. "consultants" always seemed to attract the greatest costs and always had ready and seemingly very sound excuses/reasons why greater investment was needed all of the time to build and maintain computer systems. 
The same would have applied at the other previous City Councils so all of the investments from ratepayers funds from the amalgamating City Councils would in the wash up have had little lasting benefit because what worked in one City woud not necessarily have worked in the Super City.
Any one with half a functioning brain could have predicted this outcome so now we will have to wait until the Greater London Council experience (readers should Google this if you don't already know what this was) gets served up and the Super City reverts back to what it was prior to amalgamation.  How long before that happens is anyone's guess.....
So to lay the blame totally at Len Brown's feet is a tad unfair in my opinion...

Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat....



Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2015 at 3:27pm
Clifftastic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Location: Te Atatu Pen
Status: Offline
Points: 2164
32 years! That is awesome commitment, great stuff. You must be a bit upset to see it the way it is now then. But yes, regarding the Greater London Council, I would rather we revert back to a single Auckland District Council and a Regional Council as each have their own drivers and when you mix them together you get inefficiencies. 
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote corosanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 1:52pm
corosanta View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Location: Mangonui
Status: Offline
Points: 2268
Back in the 1990's I was a qualified tradesman working for our local council, and then made redundant when the local councils were forced to combine throughout NZ. I took my redundancy pay, formed my own company, tended for those contracts that I used to do, won them, re-employed many of the old staff and ended up making four times more than I used to.

The HeadOffice fools had kept all of the offices workers on, so no saving there.

Me and my mates were earning bucket loads more as were the other contractors, so no savings there.

Then HO had to employ more staff to suppervise the contractors at extra cost. Not a cent was saved then and hasn't been since.

OK, it wasn't Auckland, but the situation is the same. And luckily we here in the Far North have just escaped being lumbered with an administration centered in Whangarei

 Are you guys being suckered or what?
Sitndrinkntalknbullman
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 3:11pm
Clifftastic View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Location: Te Atatu Pen
Status: Offline
Points: 2164
Entirely correct Coro. 
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 8:06pm
v8-coupe View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 4108
Originally posted by corosanta corosanta wrote:

Back in the 1990's I was a qualified tradesman working for our local council, and then made redundant when the local councils were forced to combine throughout NZ. I took my redundancy pay, formed my own company, tended for those contracts that I used to do, won them, re-employed many of the old staff and ended up making four times more than I used to.

The HeadOffice fools had kept all of the offices workers on, so no saving there.

Me and my mates were earning bucket loads more as were the other contractors, so no savings there.

Then HO had to employ more staff to suppervise the contractors at extra cost. Not a cent was saved then and hasn't been since.

OK, it wasn't Auckland, but the situation is the same. And luckily we here in the Far North have just escaped being lumbered with an administration centered in Whangarei

 Are you guys being suckered or what?
That exact same thing is happening in all government departments as well.
Legasea Legend Member
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 9:53pm
Tagit View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Location: Westhaven, Auck
Status: Offline
Points: 15052
I have been through this 'outsourcing process' a couple of times in my life. Once as a worker and once as the guy driving it over a business just a little smaller than the Auckland Super City. What I observed was -
When you take a 'bureaucratic organisation' (government, local council etc) and do this exercise, you end up with maybe 66% of the staff completing 100% of the work when operating as 'independent contractors'. That works because those guys suddenly don't need 20 minute tea breaks twice a day, 30 minutes per work discussions around the coffee machine etc etc. They are now getting paid for what they deliver so efficiency suddenly takes a massive leap as they drive their own mini businesses to be super efficient. What happens then is that the less efficient ones gradually fall by the wayside and the better ones get more business etc. These guys are getting an hourly rate that might be twice what they were previously getting paid, but is still only 75% of what they were previously costing their employer once all the inefficiencies etc were allowed for. It really does work, but then you get a divergence between public and private companies. In the good private companies the management overhead get slimmed down and the outsourcing arrangement delivers value to everyone involved, with the 'downside' of less people being employed as the inefficient ones get pushed out. 
In a public 'company' it works initially and then the 'oversight' requirements and typical bureaucratic thinking end up with more 'management' being employed to make sure that the new contractors are delivering what they need to deliver. They also are less equipped to deal with poorly performing contractors and so you end up with more management and worse overall contractor performance. Given enough time and the natural tendency of professional bureaucrats to grow their empires, the end result is $millions in restructuring costs and no long term savings. Until you firmly link 'real managers' own remuneration to what they personally deliver to the shareholder/rates payer you can't expect anything much better.
Back to Top
Forum Jump
Forum Permissions View Drop Down


This page was generated in 0.242 seconds.

Fishing Reports Visit Reports

Saltwater Fishing Reports
Top of the South Fishing Report - 22/03/24

Tasman and Golden Bay snapper still running hot We are not far away from daylight... Read More >

22 Mar 2024
Saltwater Fishing Reports
Bay of Islands Fishing Report - 22/03/24

Variety is the spice of life On one recent trip, the plan was to spend a... Read More >

22 Mar 2024
Saltwater Fishing Reports
Hauraki Gulf Fishing Report - 22/03/24

Fish where the fish are! Catching fish or just going fishing? I tackle this issue... Read More >

22 Mar 2024
Saltwater Fishing Reports
Inner Hauraki Gulf Fishing Report - 22/03/24

Thoughtful tactics required for better fish Over the course of each year the fishing varies,... Read More >

22 Mar 2024
Fishing bite times Fishing bite times

Major Bites

Minor Bites

Major Bites

Minor Bites