Tiri, Volkner Rocks Fight

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    Posted: 28 Feb 2003 at 2:23pm
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Titanium
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Hi all. Are there any clever computer uses out there.  Could they design a standard letter that we could put our names to.  Then on a pre-arranged date we could flood the Conservation and Fisheries minister with hundreds of Emails.  If eveybody that reads this site participates it might just convey the depth of feeling out there.  Strongest words possible without being offensive. 

Cheers

<*()))>< Graham Hansen ><((()*>

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2003 at 3:01pm
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Titanium
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Graham...

is this suggestion over and above what Option4.co.nz are already doing??..I think, well I HOPE most of us have made submissions via Option4.co.nz anyway??

good idea....together we stand divided we fall!

I am Kermit, Leader of Muppets Nov 05
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2003 at 5:25pm
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I was fishing at the Volkners on Monday. It would be a real shame to lose it. I think the charter operators are self policing .. I certainly didn't witness death and destruction out there. Many of them adhere to an agreement of one fish per angler with a minimum size of 1 metre for the whole area. We caught quite a few knigs but only 4 or 5 were kept from 9 anglers. Under MoF rules we could have kept almost all of them. I have made a submission.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote trevally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2003 at 5:34pm
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A good idea Graham but the trick is to be targeting your effort to the right people.
For the Volkners the response had to go to DOC.
For Tiri it is NZ underwater, as they are the proposers of the reserve status. If everyone sent a letter to wgtn or DOC about Tiri they would just ignore it.
The truth is not enough fishos care enough to make a noise, or effort, so concentrating the effort on the right people is the best approach. At least that is more effective. Other emails & correspondence is dumped as " its not my prob"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2003 at 8:18pm
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I to have sent Emails, faxes and snail mail, to no end.  So I thought if we send en masse to who ever is in charge we might just get a reply.  Together we stand divided we fall.

Cheers

Graham Hansen

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2003 at 10:39pm
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what we really need is everyone that has logged onto this forum to be mailed from the administration side so even those that have not read this will get to know about it........ say with a letter that they can add bits to then forward it onto DOC..... thats a bit like how DOC gets the Bird Nutters to help them out when they want something passed into legislation.. so why can't we do the same..... 

Cheers Lethal

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Joseph Lau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2003 at 10:59pm
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Got a reply from the DOC for my, my missus' and my sis-in-law's submission, and they were standard letters. Got some survey forms about better ways to improve DOC's communication to the community regarding the proposal, and the prize is a trip for two to White Island.

I have intended to chuck the survey form in the bin, but then I thought, are they trying to see how many of the replies that they sent out actually came back with the survey form completed ? And if only a tiny percentage came back, would they use this as an argument that most submissions are generated from Option4 and are therefore not genuine ? The questions in the survey form are quite interrogative and tricky. In two minds about whether to return the survey form now...     

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mars Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2003 at 11:02pm
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You're right Lethal. Not everyone logging on necessarily checks out the politic-based threads so may not be aware of whats going on. I'd say 90% of browsers of these boards really just want to read about catching fish, tackle, spots etc. Apathy at its finest.
Just today I submitted my support for Option4 from the information on the homepage. Even though I have utilised the area little over the years, I would like to revisit it at some stage and also ensure my kids have the opportunity.
Because I live in Wellington, isn't a reason to ignore whats going on. Sam Mossmans report spelt it out clearly for me.
Hopefully enough people will get behind Option4 and common sense will prevail.
Good work guys. Keep up the fight!

Mars
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fishwid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2003 at 7:43am
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I emailed NZ Underwater for a submission form NO reply from them. Ihave used the opton 4 reply for tiri but can't get hold any body about the Gt Barrier submission. I only fished there once but it was awesome trying to get back again . If anyone has a reply form for the barrier submission please tell me were they got it so i can get one.       cheers fishwid.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote trevally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2003 at 8:26pm
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fishwid
NZU have been inundated with emails requesting submission forms. They originally only printed 9000 hardcopies but have since sent out ard 70,000 to all forest & bird members. They are struggling to keep up with emails coming thru & the requests so it is no wonder you have had no reply to your request.
Barrier - if you want to use the following addy & input your details you will receive an email once that issue has been looked at.
http://www.option4.co.nz/register.htm
Online submissions are where its at, as its so quick & easy. That way you can keep up with all the issues affecting fishers nationwide.
I will put a note on this site once its online.
cheers
trevally
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Paul M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2003 at 11:31am
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I Made an online submission about the Tiri reserve, A few weeks later I recieved the proper form back and was asked to re-submit using this form.

I haven't had a chance to yet, but from a quick look at the form, my only options are to agree with the reserve and choose one of three options as to were it is placed. (Is this correct???)

I think it sucks that they can ignore my submission and ask me to re-do it on there format.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2003 at 12:15pm
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Hi Paul, I to recieved the glossy brochure and submission form.  You are correct in assuming that the form is biased, this is standard practise with any survey.  They are formulated to give the results the researcher wants.  People are naive if they think that these forms will be used for independant and unbiased reasearch.  I sent mine back with "I do not support the creation of any reserve in this area" written across the form with a vivid marker.  No doubt it will be tossed in the bin as not having been completed properly.  I look at the material sent to me and have come to the realization that we are going to need a truck load of money to fight these people.  Heavy sigh!

Graham Hansen

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2003 at 1:26pm
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Paul, the submission form attached to the hard copy of the proposal draft gives you an opportunity to:

-support/oppose reserve around Whangaparoa, and

-support/oppose reserve around Tiritiri Matangi Island

Is this the form you have received? If so, why did you ask this forum to read it tell you what it says on the form, instead of referring to the form?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Paul M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2003 at 2:26pm
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Thanks for pointing that out Reid,

My point however was, Ive already taken the time to express my opinion, which was ignored.

Im a busy guy as Im sure most of us are and I havn't had the chance to properly re-read the returned correspondance, and chances are I probably won't ie Tirri is not in my backyard so why should I really bother(Devils advocate).

Net result, someone with an opinion that made the effort to offer it, will not be counted in the final tally up.

Why did I ask this forum? 2 reasons

1.Because I assumed someone on this forum would know. I would have sent my question to the Nanna's knitting forum (of which Im a founding member) but I don't reckon they would have replied.

2. Because I think its wrong that I made a submission that I guess has been rejected because it didn't fit their format and I wanted to share that with this forum.

I believe they will use this technique to ignore all computer generated submissions.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2003 at 12:29pm
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Hi all.  Yes Reidfish the form does give you the option to oppose these reserves, but my guess is that if you do not answer the whole form it will be tossed in the bin.  As soon as you start ticking the other boxes the tick you put in the  oppose box will be ignored and only the other information will be used to justify a reserve and it's boundary.  That is the way of statistics, and they are used every day by Governments and Business to sell to or manipulate the public.  Failing that, have a good day as 40% of the 95% would say.

Cheers

Graham Hansen

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Damo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2003 at 2:01pm
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It looks to me that the NZU form is a conditioner. They ask for a reserve, we say no and rightly so! They know that getting the 100% is not going to happen without a fight so they propose the super large mega reserve and will be quite happy with one of the smaller options. We think we have won 'cos we stopped the mega reserve but in fact, would it not make them the winner? When asked a t a local meeting what percentage of opposition was required to stop the reserve. They couldn't give us an answer!! This to me means that there will not be any voluntary withdrawl of the proposal!

The whole thing stinks of corruption.

 



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2003 at 5:10pm
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A guy I work with insists the Tiri Reserve is a done deal and that it comes into force on May1 ( he says it was on telly last night). As he is pretty good at getting things wrong .... I hope he is .... It isnt all over yet is it?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2003 at 9:22am
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Tiri ipdate from NZU's environmental newsletter is reproduced below (available to members only).  I suspect Snudge's info on timing is wrong. This is just the initial consultation phase in a long process.

The deadline for the draft proposal for public discussion questionnaire returns has been extended until 31 March. Questionnaires can be obtained from New Zealand Underwater or online at www.nzunderwater.org.nz

The questionnaires containing feedback responses and public opinion have been rolling in and we have received several hundred so far. Analysis of the returns will be conducted in April following the new deadline. This reserve proposal has invoked a high level of opposition from Option Four people who send in email 'form' letters. However fishers are one user group and we are consulting widely to canvas the opinions of all user groups, including iwi. 

New Zealand Underwater is working with a group called the Tiritiri Matangi Action Reserve Group to come up with a solution that provides a level of protection and accommodates the interests of fishers. This area is subject to intense fishing pressure from a burgeoning population of nearby Orewa where the Northern motorway out of Auckland now extends. Local anecdotal evidence suggests that the shellfish beds on Whangaparoa Peninsula are being fished heavily as well. The area was rich kelp forest in the sixties. Kina barrens are the norm around the island. It is anticipated that with a reserve, snapper and fish populations will return and they will eat excess Kina and allow return of the Ecklonia beds and the rich and important communitites that a kelp canopy will sustain. 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Damo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2003 at 9:12pm
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WOW! If that is a quote then the person writing the article needs to either be congratulated for being a sneaky pr#*K or be well versed in sublimal, one eyed advertising!!

That last paragraph reeks of the very biased proposal form. It is not called the"Tiritiri Matangi Action Reserve Group"! It is called the Tiritiri Action Group and if this publication was not  "(available to members only)" then this, Im sure would have been put right for a start! It amazes me that the term " bergeoning population of nearby Orewa where the Northern motorway out of Auckland now extends" is being used in the case of supporting the area as a suitable location for a marine reserve. Don't you know that the Rodney District Council has now put in place systems for the continuing discharge of treated sewerage (apparently it is all water, or just about, but I don't  see any councillors drinking it) and the increasing amount of sewerage that they expect to process and discharge.  Yum Yum! Such a nice feature of a marine reserve.

Why on earth would someone want to go and teach their children how to snorkel whilst observing fantastic marine life so close to a sewerage outfall?  That is what it is and it is only going to get bigger.  The bergeoning pressure of Orewa could end up in this proposed marine reserve.

Please give it some thought Reidfish



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2003 at 10:41am
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Yeah, good point Deepsea.  You'll have to make up your mind, though.

If you think the (treated) sewerage outfall is such a problem, you won't want to be fishing there anyway, will you? In which case teh reserve will not be a problem.

Or, if you think it's safe enough to fish there still, then your point is probably negated don't you think?

If you don't think the sewerage is treated enough, go and find out how much it IS treated, by phoning RCC.  It's only the cost of a phone call.  Then report back to us all with some FACTS.  I look forward to your next post.

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