Flag referendum / waste of money

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 11:17am
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A flag change is general when a country goes republic, changes its name, goes from a colony to a independent nation....or some major background brewing controversy.
Non of these existed pre Keys proposal....
And a marketing brand name thing? hell the silver fern and kiwi emblems have covered that issue for decades...
Way back in the early days of Keys 'leadership'.. putting aside party politics etc... he had a an enormous support/ following... he had the opportunity to make some  positive huge changes to this country.. socially  financially, evinviromental and education And many of these he actually put forward as discussion papers.....
Changes of the magnitude of others did... Lange, kirk , savage, Fraser Seddon , vogal. Most of who Key lists as his 'heros'.

But like most want a bee.. hes had top independent political and electual PR advisers  (Aussies) who point him in the right direction... and that where it ends... wanta bee without the balls.

So to have his name in the history books he choose to change our flag.. maybe the man to make the 1st step down the path to a repubic.
And to make this successful he failed on all counts... republicanism doesnt start with a flag... nor is it created by a flag.. it is the result of the movement.

So now key will be remembered in the same manner others are, by their failures, then forgotten to history...Marshall Rolling Bolger Shipley.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 1:06pm
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Capt A i thought the first vote was should we change the flag?

the response was NO, but key still chased it hence what you said.

anyway its the best thing that could of happened, the 100th birthday for all those poor
people who died for this country and the commonwealth...

your a looser monKEY...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 2:02pm
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No Eric, the first referendum was to chose between the five different options, not whether or not to change it. The second refdm, between keeping the current flag or going for the new one, was the decider.
On reflection I think it was probably better this way, as an initial No vote would never have given people an option such as that fern flag thing to mull over, and see how they thought about it after a few months.
I personally am happy with our current flag. Trying to put all our national symbols into one flag would make it too bitsy I think,
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Grunta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2016 at 11:04am
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As a nation we don't seem to embrace change very readily and that's at odds with our entrepreneurial/DIY DNA in many ways. 

Unfortunately the whole discussion became a load of political bollocks and those politics are still very evident in some of these earlier posts.

IMO Herbs and Titahi are on to it and so is Mouthu - I'll go back to flying this:



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote 1Daz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2016 at 9:13pm
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I don't get the complaining about the cost. Yes it sounds like a lot of money but it's the cost of the referendum, The cost of democracy. Imagine if we didn't get a say, or the freedom to complain. 
Go the Warriors!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2016 at 10:52pm
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It was about 1 man's dream.

There is alot of History behind the current Nz flag.
It stands proudly engraved upon our fallen war dead all over the world.
To change something so unique that symbolized who we are for 200 years for what ?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2016 at 8:36am
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Looking at the numbers I think that if we had been given a properly designed and more thought out alternative, maybe involved some actual professional flag designers, then we might have a new flag now. The referendum was realy sabotaged by Key, by effectively telling the flag committee what to pick then politicizing the whole process by being far too involved. It's a bit ironic the person who most wanted change was the one who stopped it happening, but he can't help his huge ego.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2016 at 9:37am
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I am not sure the flag is on the gravestones of our fallen soldiers, I think it is a fern isn't it?
That is what I have seen in doccos, and what Key said that he has seen on his visits to war grave sites. Of course, if they are flying flags as well, then our flag, naturally, will be flown, but on the stones themselves, it's a fern I think.
If we were to change, I do agree with key though, we need the fern there, more so than the southern cross I think, but it should have been silver. Silver though, hmmmm, wouldn't that be hard to get on a flag? More often than not it'd look grey I suspect, silver being shiny, whereas colours for flags, being fabric, need to be matte.
Personally, I'd like something that shows NZ....blue, green and black, maybe with the sthn cross in the black. Have the colours in equal size bands running obliquely across the flag, the blue in the bottom right corner for the sea, then green from top right corner to bottom left corner signifying our land, and black in the top left corner, with the stars in that.
But then....no fern!
Tough ask getting everyone's ideas on a flag just right, eh.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Grunta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2016 at 4:40pm
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Originally posted by Kevin.S Kevin.S wrote:

......The referendum was realy sabotaged by Key, by effectively telling the flag committee what to pick then politicizing the whole process.....
So help us all.......I've read some complete bollocks on here Kevin but that is right up there in the top handful IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote NZTurtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2016 at 9:50pm
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Originally posted by 1Daz 1Daz wrote:

I don't get the complaining about the cost. Yes it sounds like a lot of money but it's the cost of the referendum, The cost of democracy. Imagine if we didn't get a say, or the freedom to complain. 

In one Daz! If someone had said that this was our new flag, no option, no consideration  I'd have been well peeved. We followed a democratic process and it cost some money. Yep, democracy does but Ill pay for it every time thanks. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote onthedrop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 1:11pm
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Whether the money went back into the local economy or not its still money that could've been spent somewhere else. 
how about a referendum for the TPPA?? or something else that actually matters??
FEED THE WHANAU
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 1:21pm
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God, don't start with the TPPA thing here, or the whole thread will go pear shaped.
Funny thing that here the TPPA is held to be a capitalist US/global corporate scheme to oppress and repress smaller states, yet in the US it is seen as a Global Socialist plot to destroy the US economy.
Hey ho, who knows. At least we still have our flag. Better the Union Jack in the corner than the Stars and Stripes. Or the Hammer and Sickle.
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote onthedrop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 12:12pm
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I don't know how its a global socialist plot ....corporate control ...globalisation... depends who your listening to or what your reading I guess
just saying there are more important things and that money was not well spent.
FEED THE WHANAU
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 10:05pm
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" N.Z will get used to the black and blue flag design"  John Key--Radio live  December 14 2015.
Well time has shown that they didnt get used to it.
Our flag featuring the union jack represents the British crown ,the other  signing party to the founding document of this country-- The Treaty of Waitangi. Take away the crown as in changing the flag and a very big gap would have appeared.
Surely the flag debate -if it could be called that was a distraction from real issues facing N.Z
We are no longer one society. ,the wealth gap is rapidly widening, many working people are struggling
dairy farmers and exporters also struggling. Our land and water is being destroyed. We now have some of the most polluted rivers in the world. Our inshore fisheries are being trashed also.
These are real issues that will have to be faced.
And what really is a New zealander. Used to be one people one country. No anymore.
Fill out any govt form and it is clear that there is no such thing as a newzealander.
It is now a European New zealander  or Maori New zealander , or pacific Newzealander,or Asian New zealander ,or Middle Eastern/latin American/african New Zealander. Or other. How on earth did we go down this road without noticing.
How does a new flag represent all these groups.
Money wasted. If our govt had a heart it would not have spent money like that with so many pressing issues.
There will be a time when we do have a new flag. It is all about timing,and this is not the time.
A new flag means new identity. What exactly is our identity .? Rapidly changing times both here and internationally is not the time to do this.
Australia is not wanting a new flag. So why us. This was a government incentive. People didnt ask for a new flag. So what was the agenda we dont know about.
And for those that think we are one of the last countries to have the union jack on our flag. Think again.
They are. Australia,Hawaii,British Antarctic territory ,Falkland Islands,Cook Islands,St Helena,Ascension Islands,Tuvalu,Fiji,  Bremuda, Turks & Caicos, Nuie, British Virgin Islands,Cayman Islands, Anguilla, British indian ocean terriotory, Montserrat,Pitcairn Island,Tristan da cuna ,South Georgia.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2016 at 5:44am
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It took Canada 3 attempts to get a flag change
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote herby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2016 at 9:30am
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:


And for those that think we are one of the last countries to have the union jack on our flag. Think again.
They are. Australia,Hawaii,British Antarctic territory ,Falkland Islands,Cook Islands,St Helena,Ascension Islands,Tuvalu,Fiji,  Bremuda, Turks & Caicos, Nuie, British Virgin Islands,Cayman Islands, Anguilla, British indian ocean terriotory, Montserrat,Pitcairn Island,Tristan da cuna ,South Georgia.




How many of those aren't even countries?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote funandfunction Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 8:18pm
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Originally posted by 1Daz 1Daz wrote:

I don't get the complaining about the cost. Yes it sounds like a lot of money but it's the cost of the referendum, The cost of democracy. Imagine if we didn't get a say, or the freedom to complain. 
At least one referendum , if not both, could easily have been held at a general election at zero cost.........
so yes an incredible waste of money to tell them what their polling would have told them all along.
There are two types of people in the world: those that divide people into two types and those that don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rock Fish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2016 at 6:37pm
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People got to exercise their democtric right in choosing between flags. Was the cost high, in comparrison to the fact that thousands died so we can live in a democtratic society, no it wasn't. I didn't like the new flag design in anyway shape or form. Had there been a professional flag designer who was tasked with designing a flag which represented our history, present and future instead of a paint by numbers silver fern, I would have been favored it more.

A good chunk of the people I've spoken to didn't vote for the new flag, not because they didn't like the idea of change, but because they didn't like the new design.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 7:25pm
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Originally posted by herby herby wrote:

Where was the money spent? In NZ or overseas?
If NZ then that's good, it's in circulation, who knows you two serial moaners might get some at some point and benefit from the whole thing.

Looking at the results it's obvious a lot of kiwis want to change it, if you didn't you won, be happy, if you did don't be a sore loser, a fair system was used and the majority won.


A fair system. Maaaaate, you are joking. Key had the deck stacked firmly in his favour and he still lost.
Tame media. Radio, TV and print. Tame sports stars deliberately text by Key. Tame flag panel. He even had the proposed flag placed to the forefront of his meetings and press conferences with the original pushed to the back. Every chance the tame media had they zoomed in on his flag pin. Fair, my partooty. In that context he lost badly.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 7:40pm
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Govt pushed the new flag at every opportunity . They certainly didnt push the keeping of the existing flag.

Debate--their was no debate.

The people didnt demand from the govt we have a new flag.

Didnt hear of protests or petitions demanding a new flag.

It was from the government ,for the government ,by the government.
Why.?
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