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Fishing on the Tongariro by upstream nymphing

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    Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 9:07am
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Dear forum members

Hi! How are you? Thank you for helping me every time.

May I ask you another question about the book, "Serious about Trout Fishing" by Tony Orman and John Morton?

There are two long paragraphs in Chapter 21: "Fishing Taupo".

Mr Morton wrote:
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A floating line and a long cast are used with a sight indicator, usually of wool dressed with fly floatant and tied at the end of the fly line, where the trace starts. For a trace, I prefer a single length of nylon, about 6 lb breaking strain, 3.6-4.5 metres (12 to 15 feet) long. Such a trace, with the heavy flies used for this kind of fishing, tends to collapse at the end of a cast, so the idea is to drop the fly at the head of the line so the fly sinks before it can be dragged by the line being pulled downstream with the current. The fly caster who likes to lay out his line with the perfect turnover to drop the fly at the end of the cast will not do so well in this situation, as his fly will tend to "plane" in the surface film like a water-skier. Thus his fly won't sink down to where the newly running fish are as they make their way upstream to their spawning grounds.
    The secret to getting the fly down is to cast as far upstream as possible, and have the fly sink quickly and literally bounce along the bottom. Any drag on the fly will lift it out of the fish's way so it is important to learn how to "mend" line to avoid drag.
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I am confusing with these red coloured sentences.

Q1: so the idea is to drop the fly at the head of the line

The author instructs "to drop the fly at the head of the line without fully extending the trace/tippet"?

Does this "line" mean the fly line? Not the trace.


Q2: The fly caster who likes to lay out his line with the perfect turnover to drop the fly at the end of the cast will not do so well in this situation, as his fly will tend to "plane" in the surface film like a water-skier.

So should we not turn over our fly line perfectly?
Do we have to put enough slack between the trace and fly?


Q3: The secret to getting the fly down is to cast as far upstream as possible

To cast our fly as far upstream as possible, we might have to make a perfect turnover of our fly line and trace....



If someone, who have enough time to answer, gives me a clue, I will appreciate so much.

Yours sincerely,

GO


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Legacy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 9:43am
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I don’t fish the Tongariro but here are my thoughts and I’m interested to see if my thoughts on Q2 are correct !
Q 1) end of the fly line
Q2)often a two nymph rig with the point nymph really heavy so as he says the leader and nymphs can collapse at the end of a cast -it’s not like casting a dry fly or light nymph on the end of a tapered leader .
I think the weight of the rod/line have some influence on this ie a 6wt will collapse easier than a 10wt with it’s heavier line that will turn over larger flies.
Q3) it’s a big river and a good place to put up big casts.
Hopefully Rainbow(Herb) will add to this as he has fished the river for years and tutored many on the TRC .
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote GO-Ito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 10:04am
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Dear Legacy

Hi! How do you do? Thank you for your quick and helpful reply.

Your answers have made my brain clear and given a better understanding.

Long time ago, I fished the Tongariro only few times with my 6 weight rod. That was year 2002-2003. I struggled so much with that heavy "bomb" pattern nymph.

Today I can watch many YouTube video clips about the Tongariro roll cast. So If I could fish the river again, I will learn and master the cast until my next trip to NZ.

Thanks a lot again.

Tight lines!

GO
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 11:06am
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Hi All     They are quite correct in wanting to drop the bomb near the indicator which is actually quite hard to do on purpose.     Usually this happens with an under powered cast or a cast that runs out of energy.     Unlike a dry fly that needs to be turned over by the tapered leader  a heavy bomb takes on a flight path of its own once it has been cast.    It tends to keep going on its own and so turns over the whole leader.   
 
There is a cast that I have used to purposely drop the bomb near the indicator and so speed up its sink rate.    I shall copy this from my book on fly casting and line mending.
 

THE PILE-UP CAST 

 

This cast has become my all time favourite to sink heavy nymphs quickly.  It creates maximum leader slack.  The pile-up cast is best achieved with a level Monofilament leader.

 

The principle behind the pile-up cast is a leader that instead of turning over piles up in loose coils around the indicator.

 

When it is done properly you can actually see the tiny splash as the nymph hits the water near the indicator.  I always use the indicator as a marker and watch for the splash to tell me if I have got slack in the leader.  When there is little distance between the indicator and the splash, I know, my nymphs are on a crash dive to the bottom.

 

The Pile-Up Cast is a bit tricky if you cannot perform the double haul.

 

1. Make a straight back cast.

 

2. Now start a high speed forward cast; aiming directly at the impact area.  Try to generate a tight loop.

(An open loop will turn the cast over and straighten out the leader).

 

3. When the casting stroke is nearly finished do not snap the wrist forward to turn the cast over.

 

4. Instead guide the back tilted rod all the way to the "stop".

5. You know it is right when the nymph splashes near the indicator.  

 

The Pile-Up cast is not the answer to every nymphing situation.  In clear water it will scare spooky fish into next week.  

 

On slow, deep stretches using a heavy nymph in combination with the pile-up cast is overkill.  First your nymph will plummet to the bottom like a stone.  Once down there it will hook up on every stick or stone to drive you mad with "phantom" strikes.  

 

The pile-up cast is my specialist tool for nymphing the deep, fast runs.   In such situations I know only too well that my nymphs have to get down to the fish quickly or be swept away above them.  In such deep, turbulent water I am not so concerned about the splash or the silhouette of indicator and line.  The disturbance is usually so far above that the spawning run fish takes little notice.  

 

I use this cast a lot when nymphing the Tongariro River.  It enables me to sink even moderately weighted nymphs quickly and definitely increases the time they drift in the strike zone.    

 

Sounds complicated?  Let me explain.

 

On a normal upstream cast, with a straight leader, a weighed nymph takes up to half of the total drift to struggle to the bottom.  

 

It is effectively fishing only during the second half of the drift.

  

In my experience the second half of the drift (once the indicator has passed you) is not as productive as the first.  Why?  Because the more line is downstream from you the more difficult it gets to keep your nymph from dragging.  

(Are you sceptical?  Next time you are on the water watch out for the slightest downstream belly near your indicator.  It is a sure sign that drag has started.)

 

When you use the pile-up cast your nymph plunges to the strike zone soon after entry.  It starts fishing sooner and keeps on fishing longer.  In short it is exposed to more fish.  

 

A further bonus is that while the nymph is still coming towards you it also has a better chance of presenting drag free.  You are getting more quality drift.

 

These are mayor advantages in the percentage game of a long Tongariro fishing day.  All things being equal the angler who manages longer quality drifts through the fish holding lies ends up with more strikes.

 

Unfortunately this cast is not problem free.

 

Occasionally the pile-up will leave an unwanted knot in the leader or the nymph hooks up in the yarn indicator.  

 

This is unavoidable since the line and indicator touch down first, then the leader collapses in loose coils nearby.  The last to land onto the jumbled heap are the nymphs.

 

However, the occasional tangle is a small pain for a big gain.

 

Cheers

 

Herb

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Legacy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 11:41am
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Awesome Herb , will give that a go myself .
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2019 at 2:48pm
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Re TRC    It so happens that with this cast the bomb "far more often" lands near the indicator than with a normal overhead cast.    
Cheers
Rainbow 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote GO-Ito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2019 at 12:35pm
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Hi Rainbow

Thank you for your very detailed and useful reply.

I am going to do some research and learning how to make the Pile-Up cast on the internet.

I hope you will enjoy this summer fishing season.

Cheers,

Takeshi "GO" Ito
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