Enchanter program

Page  <12
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote shaneg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2022 at 11:58pm
shaneg View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 4205

Will stick to day boating on my own boat, catch odd marlin and can come home at end of day or early if even looks like cutting up rough.
Was invited on that boat Enchanter a few times with guys who were regulars going to Kings, but I’m not that hard. Got sick once with Rick Pollock on Pursuit, and also as a deckie for Steve Angus  (Riviera tournament) … like 20 times throwing up in a day, admittedly did drink a bit day before. That big boat stuff longer charters is for big boys who have strong stomachs and really are dedicated and want to catch fish.  
I guess I am a very soft guy, who can still catch a few fish in calmer conditions in a trailer boat.  Very sad those guys didn’t come home from a long range fishing trip of a lifetime they had courage to go on.
As an ex professional part time snapper charter skipper myself taking lovely people and fellow anglers out fishing is a privilege … losing people’s lives, that would gut you. Hope Lance is getting some help dealing with that.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2022 at 7:25am
MB View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Location: Northland
Status: Offline
Points: 4694
Originally posted by shaneg shaneg wrote:


Will stick to day boating on my own boat, catch odd marlin and can come home at end of day or early if even looks like cutting up rough.
Was invited on that boat Enchanter a few times with guys who were regulars going to Kings, but I’m not that hard. Got sick once with Rick Pollock on Pursuit, and also as a deckie for Steve Angus  (Riviera tournament) … like 20 times throwing up in a day, admittedly did drink a bit day before. That big boat stuff longer charters is for big boys who have strong stomachs and really are dedicated and want to catch fish.  
I guess I am a very soft guy, who can still catch a few fish in calmer conditions in a trailer boat.  Very sad those guys didn’t come home from a long range fishing trip of a lifetime they had courage to go on.
As an ex professional part time snapper charter skipper myself taking lovely people and fellow anglers out fishing is a privilege … losing people’s lives, that would gut you. Hope Lance is getting some help dealing with that.

Personally, I don't really enjoy charter trips. The clever part of boat fishing is finding the fish at the right time, setting up the drift etc. Any monkey can drop a line down. 

By the way, TV show here for those that missed it:
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2022 at 5:17pm
v8-coupe View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 3846
Originally posted by Bounty Hunter Bounty Hunter wrote:

initial thoughts from the program - without passing judgement 

were they running across a shoaling area in a N/E wind which might cause waves to pile up?

the massive glass area on the boat and the light timber mullions for a offshore rated vessel

the risk presented by the huge enclosed cockpit 



Yes, I too questioned the strength of that predominantly glass super structure for an offshore vessel as soon as the incident was reported and pictures of the vessel posted.
Having said that, we were looking at doing a Ranfurly Charter as all reports/feedback said great boat and great skipper so one would assume the vessel "was" sturdy enough for those conditions given the amount of charters the boat/skipper had completed.
I guess 2° or two minutes either way and all may have been safe.
Who knows.
Sympathies to all involved and their wider families.
Legasea Legend Member
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishb8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2022 at 7:59am
Fishb8 View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Hamilton
Status: Offline
Points: 9291
 I thought the investigation was very thin on details. I know we should be finding out in the future.
Hate that expression, Rogue Wave.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2022 at 5:42pm
The Tamure Kid View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 25 Aug 2015
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 4628
Thanks for posting that link, MB. I don't have access to a TV at home at the moment. A harrowing watch.

I'd categorise the programme as a well done story of ordinary blokes suddenly in a battle for survival, and the emotional toll of the tragedy. From that perspective, now is as good a time to tell it as any, and I think it was comprehensive with the depth of the first-hand accounts. The reporter obviously earned the trust of those she interviewed, and they would have been suspicious as hell about her intentions when she first got in touch with them about taking part.

It probably was never intended as an "investigation". That would be almost impossible while an official one is underway and it would have been a very different type of current affairs piece - probably end up as mish mash with neither part done justice. The issue with the aviation fuel grounding choppers for hours (first I've heard of that in relation to this tragedy), the 'rogue wave', and other aspects of the trip and vessel will no doubt form part of those formal investigations and ultimately the Coroner's inquest, and that will be interesting.

The one thing that I noted was the disparity between the impression the charter crew had of the conditions both before the incident and particularly while they were on the wreckage and during the rescue ("10 knots"), and what the rescue chopper crew said.

The survivors talked about how the conditions had really settled down, seeing all the stars etc, whereas the chopper crew guy spoke about the tricky conditions for a rescue: "...very poor visibility, rain, wind, big swells, high sea state...". 

As others have said in the thread, that area and the charters are clearly not for the faint hearted. i would have been terrified on that earlier trip where the footage showed storm waves smashing against the cabin windows - reminiscent of the passenger vids of Cook Strait ferries in huge storms.

A tragedy for all involved, and clearly the survivors will carry their experience with them forever.


Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2022 at 6:11pm
Pcj View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 2147
<span style="color: rgb53, 60, 65; font-family: Inter, -apple-system, MacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 14px;">We sought shelter in Orokawa Bay in BOI for those couple of days, gave good shelter and flat water but it was blowing dogs off chains there,  I could not contemplate going out for a fishing trip it was not pretty.</span><p style="-sizing: border-; color: rgb53, 60, 65; font-family: Inter, -apple-system, MacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 14px;">Another thing,  I wonder if these guys where reporting "apparent wind" at the time of the incident, they were running under power with the breeze and the survivors reporting the breeze had dropped to around 10 knots which would make sense if you're travelling 15-20 knots in those conditions.

<p style="-sizing: border-; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb53, 60, 65; font-family: Inter, -apple-system, MacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 14px;">Turn that vessel into the breeze and its a completely different story as many of us know.

<p style="-sizing: border-; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb53, 60, 65; font-family: Inter, -apple-system, MacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 14px;">

<p style="-sizing: border-; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb53, 60, 65; font-family: Inter, -apple-system, MacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 14px;">

<p style="-sizing: border-; margin-top: 0px; color: rgb53, 60, 65; font-family: Inter, -apple-system, MacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 14px;">I know a few that have been with him and know someone that was on the next trip, plus reading the comments about him, if you got good weather it was a great trip but if the weather was crap you either went or forfeited your money 

<p style="-sizing: border-; color: rgb53, 60, 65; font-family: Inter, -apple-system, MacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 14px;">Not a great sense of responsibility towards safety.

<p style="-sizing: border-; color: rgb53, 60, 65; font-family: Inter, -apple-system, MacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 14px;">I passed him coming home from the Kings as he headed out on that trip, we were coming home because we knew the weather was about to pack up in a few days, all the other charter boats came back at least a day ahead of him or the commercial boats stayed out (cray boats)

<p style="-sizing: border-; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb53, 60, 65; font-family: Inter, -apple-system, MacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 14px;">He got it wrong and people that trusted him died. It was 50nm south that night and we had over 50 and over 200mm of rain from Saturday afternoon until early hours Monday 

<p style="-sizing: border-; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb53, 60, 65; font-family: Inter, -apple-system, MacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 14px;">‘Monday we headed further south in a good 3m swell some bigger

<p style="-sizing: border-; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb53, 60, 65; font-family: Inter, -apple-system, MacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 14px;">

<p style="-sizing: border-; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb53, 60, 65; font-family: Inter, -apple-system, MacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 14px;">That was from a different site by 2 who were there and do trust them than than the doco on the wind front.

<p style="-sizing: border-; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb53, 60, 65; font-family: Inter, -apple-system, MacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 14px;">

Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote whippersnappyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2022 at 6:44pm
whippersnappyr View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 14 Aug 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 1558
I agree you don’t form conclusions from media representations of incidents but you also can’t take too much from paying customers who presumably aren’t experienced boaters.

I also noticed the supposed calm conditions (10kn) vs the difficulty of the rescue due to the conditions. If this gets resolved in favour of the rescue folks then the skipper should have dropped the pick in tom bowling bay.

People I know told me they had asked Lance about what happens if there is a cancellation due to bad weather and he said it would never happen.

Be interesting to see where the investigation lands.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote SaltyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2022 at 7:59pm
SaltyC View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Auckland, NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 3656
Interesting doco and comments.

The doco was better than I was expecting. Relied almost entirely on first hand accounts and resisted the urge to editorialize.

I also noticed the difference in the conditions as reported by the survivors and the copter crew. However I am inclined towards the survivors view for 3 reasons really. Firstly the pictures from the air pretty much show no major seas at all or wind on the surface until the down draft hits, secondly the survivors spent hours on the wreckage, an upside down hull with antfoul, slippery as hell and the flat surface of the remains of the flybridge, no freeboard at all, and at no time did they mention the seas sweeping over them or even hint they were in danger of being washed off and the pictures I have seen pretty much back them up. And thirdly, an experienced deckie is not going to putting a pot of boiling water on the stove top to chuck cauliflower into if the vessel is pitching and rolling in a big seaway. 

I have always been pretty skeptical about "rogue waves" as well, but, according to experts they do exist. They are usually larger than the surrounding waves by a large scale and come from up to 90 degrees to the prevailing wave conditions, why vessels running before a sea sometimes get blindsided on the beam. The most compelling account came from the yachts hit in the Sydney to Hobart a few years back. They were in storm conditions with very high winds causing shrieking noise from the rigging and masts, they couldn't hear themselves yelling over the noise, but they still reported they heard rather than saw, the rogue wave before it hit them and not from the same direction as the prevailing seas. 

I would also discount the third party stuff about previous trips and weather unless you can point me to one where they either came to grief or actually came close to it. If you can't then what exactly is it you are saying was done wrong? 

A charter skipper going to the Kings isn't going to do many trips if he lets inexperienced crew decide on the weather conditions he can go in.  As I said in an earlier post, I have never fished with Lance or on any of his vessels, but I have been onboard a vessel leaving the Kings to fish the magnet (King Bank) when the very experienced skipper gave the crew the choice (it was quite rough that day) either carry on or go back to shelter and fish for kingis etc, but the only charter I've had cancelled was for mechanical breakdown prior to leaving.

The only other comment I'd make is I am a little perplexed that no Coastguard resource appears to have been activated at all. Now that may just be because they didn't have time to show that in the doco but no one else has reported a coastguard vessel joining the response or search. Bit of a worry with units at Houhora, Doubtless Bay and Whangaroa. May be covered in the final report and maybe that the Rescue Co-odrination Centre didn't activate them. But I am pretty sure that Annette at Far North Radio would have done a number of "all stations" calls for any vessels in the vicinity which should have been picked up by Coastguard Coms.

My 2 cents worth while we await the "official" version of events anyway.

Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2022 at 8:29pm
The Tamure Kid View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 25 Aug 2015
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 4628
Good well considered input, SaltyC. 

I think a lot of the cynicism around 'rogue waves' is because they are often cited in media reports quoting rescued boaties as a reason their boat overturned or sank in the Manukau or Waitemata, where the more likely cause of the incident is going out in sea conditions not suitable for their small craft (combined with overloading) and the boat being in poor condition etc.

In the first thread about the Enchanter tragedy the topic came up, and the existence of true rogue waves was talked about, and some useful info given - from memory, about freak waves registered out at outer buoys off the NZ coast out of all proportion to the other ones coming through. All i know is that in the open sea, and when rock fishing on open coastlines, the odd much bigger sometimes rolls through. The 'never turn your back on the sea' adage came about for a reason.

Clearly in the Enchanter's case, something out of proportion to the rest of the trip happened - exactly what and why, and then what happened afterwards in terms of the rescue process, are the answers the survivors and the families of those who died need. Let's hope they get them.


Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2022 at 11:35am
Phantom Menace View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 2427
SaltyC - it is my understanding (from talking to one of the guys who was in the radio ops centre at the time) that a CG unit as activated and were going to head up but made the call not to do it in the dark. I imagine there was a lot of consideration given to going in the dark but the decision made not to as the crew needed to be able to function.

They went at first light the next day when they could see the waves coming and it was still a hell of a trip.  I believe the same crew went back the next day too.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2022 at 4:49pm
MB View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Location: Northland
Status: Offline
Points: 4694
Agree with the comments above. I was expecting the worst - a "dramatisation" of events, there was a tiny bit of that, but it was mostly just the people involved telling their story without any judgement or opinion. Good, but heartbreaking journalism. 
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2022 at 8:34pm
smudge View Drop Down
Moderator - Ninja
Moderator - Ninja
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Te Toro
Status: Offline
Points: 30759
Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

We sought shelter in Orokawa Bay in BOI for those couple of days, gave good shelter and flat water but it was blowing dogs off chains there,  I could not contemplate going out for a fishing trip it was not pretty.Another thing,  I wonder if these guys where reporting "apparent wind" at the time of the incident, they were running under power with the breeze and the survivors reporting the breeze had dropped to around 10 knots which would make sense if you're travelling 15-20 knots in those conditions.

Turn that vessel into the breeze and its a completely different story as many of us know.

I know a few that have been with him and know someone that was on the next trip, plus reading the comments about him, if you got good weather it was a great trip but if the weather was crap you either went or forfeited your money 

Not a great sense of responsibility towards safety.

I passed him coming home from the Kings as he headed out on that trip, we were coming home because we knew the weather was about to pack up in a few days, all the other charter boats came back at least a day ahead of him or the commercial boats stayed out (cray boats)

He got it wrong and people that trusted him died. It was 50nm south that night and we had over 50 and over 200mm of rain from Saturday afternoon until early hours Monday 

Monday we headed further south in a good 3m swell some bigger

That was from a different site by 2 who were there and do trust them than than the doco on the wind front.


Hopefully thats a little easier to read.
Best gurnard fisherman in my street
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2022 at 3:27am
Pcj View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 2147
thanks Smudge
Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote shaneg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2022 at 8:14pm
shaneg View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 4205
Read your post Pcj. Some salient points, especially around don’t refund always go out and not coming in.
Guess that will get sorted as part of the formal maritime safety review.
There’s a thing called a mirror which we all look into occasionally. The skipper who loses people is going to have to look in that mirror sometimes (either way review goes) and have to reflect on what happened and why. 
Whatever outcome of the formal review, the event that occurred is definitely tragic. Remember when BillyH lost someone and he was acquitted. Don’t hear much about it or him now.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2022 at 9:19am
Otto View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 2013
Location: North Shore
Status: Offline
Points: 1810
Rogue wave, Freak wave. always wondered but off shore sailing one night not much visibility just big shadows coming at us, which required a bit of helm work but generally just big waves.  Then heard a noise looked over my shoulder and white water was at the top of the shadow.  This had a face approx 10mtrs high but luckily not steep.  Lot of water and a reason why we were all strapped in.  Checked the crew where still in front of me and asked for directions as they were closer to the compass.
Back to Top
Page  <12
Forum Jump
Forum Permissions View Drop Down


This page was generated in 0.848 seconds.

Fishing Reports Visit Reports

Bream Bay Fishing Report - 01/12/22

Don’t forget the harbours With the less-than-ideal sea conditions over the last fortnight, it has... Read More >

Bay of Islands Fishing Report - 01/12/22

Southern visitor James Lentjies – captain of the Highlanders – came into Screaming Reels the... Read More >

Raglan Fishing Report - 01/12/22

Spring snapper still hard on the bite With the recent onslaught of winds out west,... Read More >

The Espresso Hauraki Gulf Report - 01/12/22

Snapper City is not far away Snapper City – it is just out there, not... Read More >

Fishing bite times Fishing bite times

Major Bites

Minor Bites

Major Bites

Minor Bites