ELECTRIC VEHICLES (EVS)

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: ELECTRIC VEHICLES (EVS)
    Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 11:01am
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Been thinking about the governments announcement regarding electric vehicles. I believe there are some foreseeable problems ahead. Most of the information I have has come from other sources but I believe it is correct.
OK EV batteries. Taking the Nissan Leaf. It's battery has a life 8 to 10 years depending on various factors. So in 8 to 10 years you will need a new battery. Nissan (NZ) does not stock leaf batteries. I own a Nissan Fuga hybrid which uses a much smaller version of leaf battery. I rang Nissan to ask the cost of replacing my battery. They didn't know apart from the fact it would be extremely costly and they have never done one. Said they would let me know. Still waiting after months.
I could be wrong but I believe there is likely to be in the future many 10 year old Leafs with depleted batteries and the cost to replace battery(if you can get one) will be more than car is worth.
OK there are other parties who refurbish faulty individual cells in a battery to get them working again, but there is no guarantee that the day after refurbished battery is refitted another cell doesn't go in the 10 year old battery. 
   
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 11:07am
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Never mind. It is green technology. Has to be good for you.
It is all about being green - forget the rest. Did you ask them what they do with the dead batteries?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 11:17am
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I remember this story from last year  Kiwi Nissan Leaf owner told new battery would cost $121,000 (autocar.co.nz)  which shows the problems with new batteries.  This should get easier and cheaper as more people need new batteries as third party suppliers will start to get involved and prices will drop -but I'm not sure they will ever be cheap to replace.

This is the main reason that I don't think I'll ever own an EV, unless some new technology comes along.  My daily driver will be 25 years old next year, I doubt many of the EV's currently being sold will still be on the road in 15 years time.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 11:35am
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EV drivers should inform us when batteries need replacing how much does it cost. No more we have this benefit or we have this new tech coming.

Cold hard data right now.

What is a annual or 10k service cost?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 11:44am
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Where is the journalism in NZ? Where are the articles laying bare how premature this govt push for an electric fleet is, how unsettled the science and tech is, how disjointed and false the messaging from govt is becoming on this, the economics, the studies on complete life-cycle costs, carbon emissions (actual and embodied in manufacture and disposal), etc, etc.

There are studies out there showing the claimed enviro benefits of EVs are nothing like has been claimed and in fact they are only barely better than diesels. But you have to fight through the greenwash to find 'em. Journalism in NZ has sunk so low if this latest BS from govt gets a free pass.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 12:02pm
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Might do some digging this weekend 😂
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 12:14pm
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Ya gotta wonder if there is any point M. Enlightening a few people is not going to make a lick'n difference to the greenwash steamroller this govt is hell bent on driving through our lives. Much like how anything NZ does will have SFA influence on global climate change anyway.

Instead, this govt seems to actually want to encourage more dirty emissions from other countries with fewer enviro standards, as those countries make the increased quantity of products we'll need to meet the artificial demand for solar panels, EV batteries, etc this govt is creating. Let's just let China mine the byjeezus out of the Congo for the cobalt going into some of these EV batteries. Just trash the land and the current and future generations over there so we can virtue signal to the world how green we are.

But, but, new tech will save them and us. Well, prove the bloody tech before committing the entire nation to such a path. That's called good governance, not wishful thinking.

and lets just let private companies privatise the profits of these green new hopes, and then we'll socialise, yet again, the costs of cleaning up after 'em when they fail, or don't meet the hype or go into landfill, etc. God, it's so clueless it's staggering we keep doing this crazy ****.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 12:26pm
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I am guessing the likes of vehicles like Leaf and Fuga will have very depressed prices in the 2nd hand market (sorry MM). If the vehicle is say 5-6 yrs old and there are so many  ?s over it beyond say 8 yrs, how much are you going to pay? Because you have no idea what you have to re sell on after another 3-4 yrs. It may be after 8 yrs it is cheaper to buy a new vehicle - the manufacturers would be keen on that. And Jacindas subsidy on new ones will have depressed the 2nd hand market further.
I think that we should not be switching over to EV/hybrids unless the manufacturers guarantee to take back the old batteries. They are simply pocketing the export $s and exporting a pollution problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 12:33pm
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I live virtually on Wairau Road and need to see Kia anyway. Not that I would trust what they say.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kitno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 1:38pm
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Might do some digging this weekend 😂

I need a footing dug out, are you able to help?
Top 10 finish
2022 Grunter Hunter.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 1:46pm
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

Never mind. It is green technology. Has to be good for you.
It is all about being green - forget the rest. Did you ask them what they do with the dead batteries?
Alan

AND THE DEAD CARS???
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 1:53pm
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Cost to replace Fuga battery USA is  US$ 1,900....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 2:32pm
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Well thats not so bad. Prob end up around $3-4k NZ
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 2:51pm
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

Well thats not so bad. Prob end up around $3-4k NZ
Alan

The way Nissan (NZ) were talking heaps more, but at least the Fuga battery is the same as other Nissan Hybrids imported here. So it's available. Nissan leafs use different capacity batteries depending on the age of the vehicle and I believe you have to replace same with same as vehicle computer is set up to a specific battery capacity..
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 3:00pm
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

EV drivers should inform us when batteries need replacing how much does it cost. No more we have this benefit or we have this new tech coming.

Cold hard data right now.

What is a annual or 10k service cost?

Service costs are low. Check brake fluid, top up windscreen washer maybe check battery state of health and check tire and brake pad wear. Motors should last the life of vehicle. 
Depleted car batteries are in demand for solar power storage in household power units. Voltage demand is not as high as when in a car.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Denny Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 3:01pm
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Yep this thread is going to gain momentum I reckon!! Sorry about the long spiel here but it has been nagging me for some time. See below an excerpt I got on line re the % of energy generation mix in NZ and notice how we are generating our power in NZ. See site: (https://www.energymix.co.nz/our-consumption/new-zealands-consumption/) I believe this government is using smoke and mirrors when it comes to how much cleaner we will be after flooding the market (if it ever happens) with EV's! The bottom line is that hydrocarbons are a huge factor in our power generation and will be for some time too even if the country is awash with wind farms, solar etc. Don't get me wrong I'm just as keen as anyone to clean up pollution but there is a huge element of hypocrisy here. So now there is huge potential for EV's to suck the system and create a power shortage....I'm retired now but I was an oil industry employee here in Taranaki and my crowd was hot on building gas powered turbines, and still are because in behind the scenes where nobody is aware these units are roaring pretty much full time to make up the shortfall that our renewables can't do. They are rubbing their hands together knowing that they are the life and death of the generation industry right now with the ability to stop and start generation as required...they are rubbing their hands together big time because they can generate when the wind doesn't blow or the sun doesn't shine. So what is Jucindas agenda with stopping gas and oil prospecting? See where I'm headed with this?? Every time an EV is plugged in a gas fired power station starts up and uses more gas (and the atmosphere??). Renewables were OK before we started importing 60000 people into this country every year and no utility systems anywhere in the country have ever been able to keep up with the rising demands on our infrastructure ever since including power generation, hence where we are now. Mr. Key pretty much started the import deluge off but until Covid hit nothing much had changed so the blame to me lies fair and square with governments either recent or historical. Global warming was diagnosed some 30 years ago so why has it been left so long to do something about it and to have this total kneejerk reaction to it now? And finally do people also realise how much input hydrocarbons have in the creation of an EV? It's huge, from plastic bumpers to vinyl dashes to air filters, seats etc. so how much gain is there going to be? We are flying without feathers right now or running before we can walk with this. My preference would have been to promote hybrids and let full electric EV's arrive on their merits like realistic battery prices etc. Also...watch this space on road user charges on EV's!! It's been in print ready to go for some time now, people are being sucked in and when there are enough around look out!!

The 60/40 Split

Right now, 60% of our energy supply comes from oil, gas and coal. Renewable energy sources supply 40% of our energy needs.

This is one of the the highest proportions of renewable energy in the world.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Derek F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 3:04pm
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Anyone know how safe lithium batteries are supposed to be in an accident? 
Dont like the thought of being trapped with them.  
And the trouble is, if you don't risk anything, you risk even more...Erica Jong
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 3:04pm
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Originally posted by kingiFiddla kingiFiddla wrote:

Ya gotta wonder if there is any point M. Enlightening a few people is not going to make a lick'n difference to the greenwash steamroller this govt is hell bent on driving through our lives. Much like how anything NZ does will have SFA influence on global climate change anyway.

Instead, this govt seems to actually want to encourage more dirty emissions from other countries with fewer enviro standards, as those countries make the increased quantity of products we'll need to meet the artificial demand for solar panels, EV batteries, etc this govt is creating. Let's just let China mine the byjeezus out of the Congo for the cobalt going into some of these EV batteries. Just trash the land and the current and future generations over there so we can virtue signal to the world how green we are.

But, but, new tech will save them and us. Well, prove the bloody tech before committing the entire nation to such a path. That's called good governance, not wishful thinking.

and lets just let private companies privatise the profits of these green new hopes, and then we'll socialise, yet again, the costs of cleaning up after 'em when they fail, or don't meet the hype or go into landfill, etc. God, it's so clueless it's staggering we keep doing this crazy ****.


I remember Muldoon's favourite quote:

"You've gotta do your homework!" 

I don't think anyone does homework anymore. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 3:28pm
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Everything has an end of life. EV batteries have one, even if the greenwash tells us they transition to domestic storage. We can't accept that and stop questioning, or the 11million tonnes of projected harmful EV battery waste becomes just another problem for future generations to deal with, as if we aren't leaving them enough of a farked up world to sort out.

Has the govt even sought and scrutinised the feasibility of, plans to recycle these batteries? Who's paying for that? Who has a credible, proven process? Should we even be starting down the EV road until such problems are sorted?

Has the govt even sought and scrutinised assurances the mining of the minerals used in these things is sustainable, environmentally friendly and humane?

If they haven't then they can shove their hypocritical 'environmentally friendly' and human rights window dressing with refugee intakes up their collective @sses.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Hook-it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 3:38pm
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Greenwash, steamroller effect. 
Govt is blaming our age /older persons for not wanting to be part of the global climate change. Or any change for that matter. 
This is not the case, simply think the plan out first. Better to go into something new with eyes wide open, rather than shut.
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