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easy way to tie droper loop

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    Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 5:58pm
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Titanium
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I have a jig, nails and tie dropper rigs then wind onto a spool to simply hook onto main line, cut off from the spool add hooks.. all pre tied.

Then on the weekend was showing one of the grandsons a few knots.. hes in scouts now.
 One of the big go to knots for anything is a alpine loop...
Palm open.. lay the rope over the end of the fingers, around the lower part of the fingers and again around the palm.
 reach under the top loop to the middle, grab it , pull it thru, back under the bottom loop and slide off the hand  pulling the tags and loop up tight.

Then a light bulb went off... thats like a dropper loop with lest twists on the back bone...maybe...

So a little experimenting.. and was only a little..

 Around the hand the same 3 times as above for the alpine loop
 Reach under the top loop, as above,
 grab the middle loop , as above
pull thru, as above
back around the bottom loop, as above
 THEN take back around the bottom loop, under all the loops couple more times.
 pull up on tags and loop
 presto dropper loop the easy way...

It doesnt pull up on ropes well but on fishing line sweet as.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rozboon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 9:41am
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The "standard" dropper loop, with the twist-and-through, is appallingly weak. You would be lucky to achieve 60% line strength with it. I wonder how this one compares.

The Paul's Fishing Kites dropper is much harder to tie but way stronger. Both were soundly thrashed in my testing by a single-leg dropper using a Surgeon's knot finished with a half hitch underneath it, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 2:15pm
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I'm sure I've posted this before, but this is a link to a reinforced dropper loop that claims 95% line strength (I haven't actually tested one).

You don't need to tie a loop in the extra line and hang a weight on it, just need to include the extra length of line when tying the dropper loop, which is what reinforces it.

I tie all my dropper loops like this and have had some big fish give them a workout and the line has always broken before the knots went.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote REIVER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 2:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 7:09pm
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Titanium
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Re line strength of a knot...
 Any knot in a line will weaken the line.. be it a fishing line or a rock climbing rope

It is therefore std procedure that when choosing a line or rope, it is done so taking into account  the type of knots going to be used and how much the reduce the effective working load of that rope.

So lets apply that to a ledger rig, and tie in a knot X that is rated at say  60%
Your requirements is a strength of say 20 lbs, so you will choose a line of 35lbs.
The effect of a given knots lower rating  has no effect on the end use.

Knots of very high rating enable very light lines to be run.. eg a FG on very light soft bait rig.

So I have been advised by local knowledge , tie up the dropper rigs with 60 or 80 lb ....
So I opt for 80lb. and lets say the knot(s) are 60%
 That give me a strength of  about 50lb  off the top of my head...
 Thats a pretty big snapper.

 So applying that to the real would .. today over the bar... 
And yep we broke off 3 hooks.. on about 55 to 65 cm snappers.
 And we broke those simply because those snaps teeth went right thru the fulro rubber sheath, and thru the doubled trace , between the back bone and hook..no knots in between.
 So in essence in the real practical world of what dropperloops is used, at the end of the day it is the sharp teeth (or reefs etc) that will determine the weight on the line.

A lot is made of knot strength with very little if any thought put into the application of fishing.. unless maybe someone has applied these basic principle in the past to climbing rock faces.

All the videos above are simple droper loops .. the one on the machine just introduces an extra strand inside the knot.
 The last shows several ways to tie the same knot... the peg board is what I describe in my post above..
 Taking the alpine loop is just another way to tie it .. just making it real simple

An alpine loop is a world wide std  knot recognized by military, and civilian riggers, go to knot, be uit used as a loop or joining knot. Adding more loops around the back bone doesnt weaken the knot.. it spreads the load on the line away from the main pressure points


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Uncle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 7:22pm
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...just as a matter of interest steps, do you use circle or "j" hooks?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 7:29pm
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Circle, for just about everything.. been using owner and gamaski for the last few yrs, trying GKK which Im rather impressed with, espec when get up in the 8/0 and 10/0 sizes.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote terrafish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 11:23pm
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Once upon a time, used to fish the standard dropper loop on a single hook with 80lb with 20 lb mono as mainline. Caught thousands of fish on these and never had one break(the knot). Fished these hand tied rigs to the point where they would often go milky from stress. Tie a second hook in below and it all changed. Its a bit like the bimini versus plait in game fishing. Some say the bimini is crap, plait is the bomb and vice versa, Me I am 100% bimini for 100% line strength proven. That is tie one back to back with about a meter separating them and break it. If you have tied it right, with the right amount of pressure for the line class, it will break within eeks of dead centre between the knots. If not keep practicing. And yes I cant tie a plait to satisfy myself so not creating an discussion here. Point is, when tying any knot perfection is only gained by repetition, confidence is only gained by use, and success is from the previous two. Just my opinion
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote terrafish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 11:25pm
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Oh and thro in application to
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2019 at 9:19am
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Tied hundreds of 2 hook ledgers with the standard dropper knot. Can tie one in seconds after all the practice.Use 60lb and 80lb trace and breaking one is incredibly rare. the 10kg main line will  break first and if it a big fish it gets netted or gaffed at the boat before lifting.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rozboon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2019 at 10:53am
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

Re line strength of a knot...
 Any knot in a line will weaken the line.. be it a fishing line or a rock climbing rope

It is therefore std procedure that when choosing a line or rope, it is done so taking into account  the type of knots going to be used and how much the reduce the effective working load of that rope.

So lets apply that to a ledger rig, and tie in a knot X that is rated at say  60%
Your requirements is a strength of say 20 lbs, so you will choose a line of 35lbs.
The effect of a given knots lower rating  has no effect on the end use.



This is what I kinda call the "american" approach. "My knots weaken the line a whole lot so I'll just use heavier line" - without giving much appreciation to the effect on the end result.

Lighter line has better feel, lets you use smaller sinkers due to being less affected by current, results in more natural bait presentation.... long story short, in my opinion, you'll hook more fish on lighter line.
If I want 20lb of fighting strength, and I can get it from 25lb line by tieing good knots or 40lb line by tieing crap knots, seems like a no-brainer to me.

The only place this doesn't apply is in the last 10cm of line that has to deal with a fishes face, or maybe the last couple of metres if you're talking Kingfish, that may have to deal with a reef (throw this out the window for land-based or game fishing, obviously...).

If you're using lumo sleeves and doubled traces then you may as well just use 100lb+ on the droppers with crane swivels and crimps on both ends. No more losing fish from getting bitten off.
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