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Drag settings when trolling

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    Posted: 24 May 2005 at 9:16am
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It was a great gamefishing season but also quite a difficult one, given the large number of fish hooked and lost.

I wondered if the trolling drag settings had anything to do with it? What settings are people using - both full strike drag and trolling drag? Are they measurable, i.e. 2kg, 3kg, 4kg or whatever?

I'll start the ball rolling. We had the 24kg rods set on 7kg maximum strike drag. We trolled with just enough drag pressure to stop the lures dragging line out (number two on the Penn VSW 50s but not sure what that equates to in kgs of drag).

One strike, one marlin.

Nobody has ever come up with a great idea after a second bottle of water.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote obald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 9:22am
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Bit early in the winter for this sort of thing, Shane.

'Single or double hook rigs' normally comes up around August, 'roller trollers or blacks clips' September and, from memory, drag settings are slated for the second week in October.

Random musings on all sorts of things http://obaldnz.blogspot.com/



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 9:31am
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hahahahaahaha....very drol Mr Obald but my thoughts exactly!

but on a different note:

Did you catch a marlin Bender?

I am Kermit, Leader of Muppets Nov 05
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 10:09am
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Sorry chaps I'm suitably chastised and thoroughly repentant. I just got excited looking at this photo stuck to the side of my computer at work. I don't like to go on and on about it but....

I've obviously totally got things screwed up. I went out about a month ago and bought some new Blacks clips. And I've just ordered a rigging kit and new crimpers. I was just thinking last night Mr Obe wan Kenarkwright, that it was time I had discussions with you, over one of your beers, re the hot lure colours for next season.

At this rate I'll be ready by about August 8th.

Good eh?

 

Nobody has ever come up with a great idea after a second bottle of water.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote obald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 10:17am
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In the diary - and I will have been to, and returned from, the Channel Islands by then.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Adam Scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 10:33am
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You spent 1day on the water Bender, raised 1 marlin, hooked it and caught it! 100% hookup rate and 100% fish per days ratio! And you are wanting advice from us?

Dont know if I agree with the difficuilt season comment though, best season weather wise in years, best hookup rate we have had in years and best fish per days ratio we have had in years( nearly as high as yours Bender), and to top it off, most of the good fishing has been on the back door step in only 80m of water. I have ordered another one just like it for next year.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 10:33am
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Kerren....

 

 

Adam - all I can say is thank goodness luck plays a role in fishing as well!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 10:54am
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had to do a double take then Bender.....reckon from that angle you are a stunt double for the skipper of the Far Side.....

And as Adam says...you want advice from us?....piffle waffle....just keep doing what you are doing till it no longer works mate.

minimum over-run if off the rod tip, lighter if using a drop back and 1/3rd breaking strain @ strike?.....seems fairly straight foward?

After the fish settles down go up to the corner with confidence....I don't believe you will be able to break 24kg line thru the rod tip employing say 20kg of drag.....that is assuming there isn't any impact or jerky movements (read: get rid of your Penns) in the system at this stage.

Damn...didn't want to get dragged into this thread just yet.....I am pathetic!

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 11:03am
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Much more of that talk and you know where I'll place my Penns (after offering you a file to remove any sharp edges first.)
Nobody has ever come up with a great idea after a second bottle of water.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Coast to Coast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 11:51am
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No one wants to play then Bender? I'll be busy in October so here's my bit; after years of light drags I got frustated with dropping fish this year so set them at 8kg while we were at Houhora. It was one for one, (which fell off at the boat, although that was just luck in my opinion, nothing to do with drags) and a couple of 'fin. What I did conclude was 1/ on light drags its all or nothing, with strike drags the fish is more enthusiastic about another shot if it misses the first time, and 2/ I had forgotten just how much fun it is to have a fully loaded rod singing at strike drag while you clear the gear. especially the short corner when it pops out of the roller troller. Goddam its exciting. That alone is worth the price of admission...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 12:22pm
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roller troller??......you still using Hardy Bros Reels, linen line and splitcane rods as well??.....

After viewing (underwater cam) over 80 striped marlin attempting to bite, biting and hooking up on lures I have never been anymore convinced about using a light breakaways, dropbacks and a light drag system.....

very few of that 80 actually pounced on the bite out of share rage but those that did generally got hooked up anyway on the breakaway, dropback and light drag system. The one's that did pounce generally had competition from another fish or 2 or 3!

Most seemed to have a 3 step procedure......and that was...

give the lure a couple of twaks with it's bill at speed thus tripping the breakway.

Then slow down from attack mode with flared gills and with mouth agap attempting to suck the lure in to it's gob - which all things being equal should be dead in the water like everything else they have ever hit with their bills...this is where the dropback comes into effect....also remember that when a marlin has it's mouth open it's vision severly compromised beacuse of the bill....this is why they have an erratic side to side movement at the moment of truth....trying to get a bead on their target!!....

(NB to the above: you hear this all the time..."it had it's bill out of the water wagging over the lure....but never bit....obviously wasn't hungry!!"......ummm...the answer to this is "it had it's mouth open, so yes it wanted to eat but you were obviously moving the 'plate' away from the dinenr table" - this is what happens when you don't have a dropback in my opinion)

They then turned (generally away from the spread so as not to scatter the "bait") to swallow their "food" and I guess line themselves up for another go at the spread (bait). Of course at this stage the lever was slowly being pushed up to set the hook or if chaos was happening in the cockpit and no one was there to push the lever up then water pressure seemed (not %100 but well enough) to do the job even on a very light drag.

Just some observations that backed up the way i have been taught to fish for striped marlin by someone that has much much much more experience than most......but at the end of the day you have to use the method you have confidence in.....

damn damn damn....you owe me a beer for getting me further involved in this Rendle!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 12:30pm
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Using rubber bands as breakways?

 

Kezz- re your double take. Can I help it if I look astonishingly like Bradd Pitt's fridge.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 12:37pm
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dacron loops into blacks clips.....but yeah a #32 rubberband will surfice but nowhere near as good at releasing as immediately or as cleanly as a dacron loop and a tuned Blacks Clip.

hahahahaha....funny man!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Coast to Coast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 12:39pm
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I'm sure we can organise that next week Packer. That's exactly how we have fished based exactly on that scenario. And I still believe it 100%. Its just that when you have the year from hell like we had this year... I really had forgotten how exciting it is to have a rod on strike load up though. We band and Blacks everything except that short corner. But then I run a couple of single speed Penns too. Although as you will probably see at the boat show we will have another brand involved with the magazine boat for next season.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 1:28pm
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 Can't let it go. I can't get dacron loops to stick on the nylon. I've tried sizes from one inch to four inches and they just slip. The main line pulls through. I tried half hitching them with waxed thread, which is not fool proof and is a bloody hassle on a small boat out at sea, with a lure running on the line. It still slipped.

Same with powergum - 9 loop uni around the line - pressure - slip.

Faaaark.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Adam Scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 2:03pm
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Biggest problem I have had with dacron loops is not them slipping under tow but when you are hookedup and that section of line goes back and forth thru the rollers a number of times on a stubborn fish. The dacron gathers up on the roller tip and gets pushed meters down the line, then does the same as it goes thru the then next roller and so on, then it hits the anglers fingers whos spreading the line and gets pushed even further down the line. When it comes to resetting the gear, it is no longer a fast and easy reset as it takes time to slip the loop back(slower than a rubberband). I went back to wax thread Bender, uni with half hitches after that and it doesnt slip. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote obald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 3:10pm
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Two 9 wrap uni knots on 10kg powergum do not slip if you pull the uni knots tight enough and even if they do just put a separate uni knot 'stopper knot' above the loop - but you won't have to do that 'cos they don't slip anyway (vide supra).

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Plonker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 7:03pm
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I find even rubber bands slip if you've got too much baby oil on your hands Bender. I was baby oiling my lures on the weekend and had this problem.

had to do a double take then Bender.....reckon from that angle you are a stunt double for the skipper of the Far Side.....

 

Kerren, same angle but compared to Bender's photo, you will notice in the Far Side photo, cigarettes , alcohol and general decadent behaviour just around the corner.

You should know Kerren, I took your place at Hohoura and wound in your fish for ya too.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote dustin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2005 at 1:31am
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Is that Ants who had his 40th just a year ago?  Jammy geezer doesn't look a day older than 35 in that photo!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote dustin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2005 at 1:08am
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Bender... What size dacron are you using, and what size mono?  The dacron should be as snug on the mono as possible so it grips better.  say 80 dacron for 80 mono, 130 dacron works good with 130 mono... I haven't really tried with 50 mono but I've used 80 dacron with 60 mono with no problems.  The other problem most folks have with dacron loop slippage is they don't make the dacron section that holds the mono long enough.  4 inches should be OK but I make mine about 5.  The finishing hitches you make (I used waxed dental floss but you can split up a piece of waxed rigging floss into 3 narrow diameter strands which should work even better) are critical.  They must be tight enough to stop the dacron end from unravelling, but at the same time not too tight otherwise you can't slide the dacron up and down the line.  Practice makes perfect. 

I've had somewhat similar experiences as Adam re the dacron loop moving during the fight but resetting the loop has never really been a huge problem for me personally; then again we aren't normally besieged by hordes of hungry marlin so I guess we don't have such an urgent need to reset the spread in perfect position instantly after a caught fish. 

As for drags.. well I have to say after reading Matt's article in NZFN and also Kerren's post above the rationale behind what I thought were unbelievably light drag settings is now a lot clearer to me... Thanks Kerren and especially Matt for giving me (us) some real food for thought. 

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