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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Customary Permits
    Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 10:39am
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Up until recently I have had no experience with customary permits.
 
To be honest it has been a them and us scenario until I saw the results of one permit for a very small group of families issued for Xmas Dinner festivities.
There are 50 crays, paua, scollies in the pic
 
And the holy grail
I was under the impression Toheroa were a no take spieces, the permit for these was issued for 300, no I did not see the 300 but those on the plate were part of it.
 
We keep hearing about how these people know how to manage the resource, to my mind that is complete bullsh*t.
I was some what annoyed when one of the gathering party was rubbing it into youse honkies how they can do what they like.
 
What do you think.
 
Cheers
 
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 12:02pm
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Yep,its a rort In its purist form. Permit was most likely issued by a family member too. And yes,toheroa are a no take item,that's what was said when I saw it on Maori TV about 2wks ago.
Things are going to get worse too,believe that.
This country's equality is a joke.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 12:07pm
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Oh well, when the greedies have taken it all, and there is nothing left for anyone, they better not come around to cry on my shoulder.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 12:24pm
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[QUOTE=Mr Moritz]Oh well, when the greedies have taken it all, and there is nothing left for anyone, they better not come around to cry on my shoulder.

They won't be crying, they will be demanding compensation.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 12:40pm
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Originally posted by pompey pompey wrote:

They won't be crying, they will be demanding compensation.

Haha! So true! 

My mate got on a customary permit for scallops. Allowed 400 in a day from Whangarei Harbour. What a joke. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 12:57pm
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Just like the moa, eat em till they are gone
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 1:47pm
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How can that be? Thought Maori don't believe in Christmas?
slowly going where everyone else has already been
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 3:17pm
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Does that mean - if something in an area is "closed" by MPI - can maori continue to take under "customary" permit?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 3:55pm
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The regular rules do not apply to Customary take. No size limits either. What is the point of having legal sizes for paua/crays etc, when you can take everything.
You don't have to be brown to get a permit either. I know a guy at our end of town that gets one regular - for family gatherings. Undersize crays/paua no problem. Rest of the yr he has to measure like the rest of us.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 4:34pm
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Originally posted by feeder feeder wrote:


Up until recently I have had no experience with customary permits.
 
To be honest it has been a them and us scenario until I saw the results of one permit for a very small group of families issued for Xmas Dinner festivities.
There are 50 crays, paua, scollies in the pic
 
And the holy grail
I was under the impression Toheroa were a no take spieces, the permit for these was issued for 300, no I did not see the 300 but those on the plate were part of it.
 
We keep hearing about how these people know how to manage the resource, to my mind that is complete bullsh*t.
I was some what annoyed when one of the gathering party was rubbing it into youse honkies how they can do what they like.
 
What do you think.
 
Cheers
 
 
 
 


Just a thought, perhaps they could not find the permitted 300 Toheroa so took all they could find?
Yep. Customary take is a rort.
Especially so with no size limit.
Does make a mockery of New Zealanders of Maori descent claims that they are guardians and custodians of New Zealands natural resources.
Especially marine resources.
I may be wrong, and stand to be corrected, I believe it was New Zealanders of Maori descent that dessimated the Toheroa population up north.
News items showing tractors towing ploughs spring to mind.
I will put money on it, if there is a no take moritorium on Crayfish in the Gulf, customary permits will circumvent that moritorium.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 4:43pm
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Originally posted by letsgetem letsgetem wrote:


Does that mean - if something in an area is "closed" by MPI - can maori continue to take under "customary" permit?


Yes. Not just Maori. Anybody can apply for a customary permit.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 4:48pm
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

The regular rules do not apply to Customary take. No size limits either. What is the point of having legal sizes for paua/crays etc, when you can take everything.
You don't have to be brown to get a permit either. I know a guy at our end of town that gets one regular - for family gatherings. Undersize crays/paua no problem. Rest of the yr he has to measure like the rest of us.
Regards
Alan


The minimum size must be noted on the permit. If it isn't, rec size limit applies for the area.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 5:03pm
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" Just a thought, perhaps they could not find the permitted 300 Toheroa, so took all they could find ".

Not allowable.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 5:03pm
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But they can prescribe any size - correct?
In which case preserving the future breeding stock is not a consideration.
Alan
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 5:04pm
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Originally posted by kitno kitno wrote:

Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

The regular rules do not apply to Customary take. No size limits either. What is the point of having legal sizes for paua/crays etc, when you can take everything.
You don't have to be brown to get a permit either. I know a guy at our end of town that gets one regular - for family gatherings. Undersize crays/paua no problem. Rest of the yr he has to measure like the rest of us.
Regards
Alan


The minimum size must be noted on the permit. If it isn't, rec size limit applies for the area.



Legal Scallop size 100mm.
If 50mm is written on permit then that size is acceptable and legal with a customary permit?
So basically no size limit if an arbitrary one can be written down?
Of course, one would hope common sense would prevail.
Maybe not, if it is true that the above mentioned permit allowed for the taking of 300 Toheroa.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 5:10pm
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If an area is closed - eg MPI shut an area down, Customary take still prevails. The permits are to be used in the Iwi/Hapu area they are issued.
So you can't get a permit in Hawkes Bay for a bunch of Kaimoana and take it on holiday with you and use it to plunder the Ngapuhi stocks.
So if your Customary take area is shut down, you still have rights to take whatever. As long as you have a piece of paper issued by your whanau.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 5:15pm
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

But they can prescribe any size - correct?
In which case preserving the future breeding stock is not a consideration.
Alan


Within reason. Rec size limit can be inforced on the issuer.
Eg, issuing permits for paua at 80mm would not be tolerated if legal size paua are available in the area.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 5:16pm
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Originally posted by kitno kitno wrote:

" Just a thought, perhaps they could not find the permitted 300 Toheroa, so took all they could find ".

Not allowable.



"Not allowable", ?????
The permit says they are allowed to take up to 300.
If they can only find 200, 150, or 100 that is all they will take.
How is that not allowable?
Do I have something wrong?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 5:18pm
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Another rort which you probably have not yet considered , goes like this;
Whanua X does not have a permit - but most/all of his crays are undersize. Whanua Y does have a permit - so he transfers them to Y's boat and Y takes them ashore. As long as Y is not stopped by MPI, all the crays go back to X, and Y continues to fish on his permit.
Seen it with my own eyes.
Jeez, yous boys are slow.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 5:33pm
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When these customary permits are written.. given.. is there a record of them
 Also is there a record of what is actually taken.
 And is the take and documentation above, subject to MPI inspection?
And if so where are the records archived, by who? and open to historial inspection as per most other official documents etc?
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